US Air Force Refuses Re-enlistment of Atheist Sergeant - Isn't it Time to get Religion Out of Our Laws and Military?

  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Sep 16, 2014 7:33 PM GMT
    "The US air force has told an atheist airman he must swear his re-enlistment oath to God or he will not be allowed to reenlist"

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/us-air-force-sergeant-reenlist-god-oath
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    Sep 16, 2014 7:43 PM GMT
    The USAF allows its people to take a solemn affirmation (the whole point of which is to allow people to make a non-religious promise), but still requires the 'so help me God' bit. It is utterly stupid and I can see them dropping the requirement in pretty short order.

    Chaplains are another unnecessary religious add-on to the armed forces. Admittedly, they have an important counselling role, in addition to their religious duties, so why not re-title them the 'counselling branch' and ditch the religious element?
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    Sep 17, 2014 11:13 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidChaplains are another unnecessary religious add-on to the armed forces. Admittedly, they have an important counselling role, in addition to their religious duties, so why not re-title them the 'counselling branch' and ditch the religious element?


    Even while we're waiting for that to happen, why not actually have Chaplains actually be registered and licensed counselors in the first place? Many (most?) chaplains aren't certified counselors--they don't have degrees in sociology or psychology, nor any accreditation from scientific institutions.

    In my inexperienced opinion, I'd make religious counselors civilian employees, then make the church akin to contractor services, and then fund and supply the military with real counselors with training in science, psychology, sociology etcetera, to provide real assistance that treats the underlying issues without any religious element at all. That would get rid of the [legal] conflict between religion and the armed forces (separation of church and state/freedom of and from religion), while still allowing religious people to get the faith/religious support they feel they personally need.
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    Sep 17, 2014 11:36 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said...

    Chaplains are another unnecessary religious add-on to the armed forces. Admittedly, they have an important counselling role, in addition to their religious duties, so why not re-title them the 'counselling branch' and ditch the religious element?


    Unnecessary???? Haven't you heard there are no atheists in foxholes?
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    Sep 17, 2014 11:45 PM GMT
    LOL

    wtf


    they're not in a foxhole - they're fucking airforce lol


    lol I can't believe people are this controlling so stupid and boring :O
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    Sep 18, 2014 4:30 AM GMT
    Snaz saidLOL

    wtf


    they're not in a foxhole - they're fucking airforce lol


    lol I can't believe people are this controlling so stupid and boring :O

    It's an expression meaning that atheists aren't so adamant about their irreligion when they're put in a dangerous or extremely life-altering situation. In said situations, they're automatically "believers" crying out to a god of some sort.
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    Sep 18, 2014 3:32 PM GMT
    libertpaulian said
    Snaz saidLOL, wtf, they're not in a foxhole - they're fucking airforce lol, lol I can't believe people are this controlling so stupid and boring :O

    It's an expression meaning that atheists aren't so adamant about their irreligion when they're put in a dangerous or extremely life-altering situation. In said situations, they're automatically "believers" crying out to a god of some sort.


    I also think UndercoverMan was just being sarcastic/funny when he said that (no atheists in foxholes).

    Thankfully, and in some cases regrettably due to their death, we have plenty of stories and examples--evidence--that clearly shows there are atheists in fox holes. We also have some evidence that shows when soldiers are in a life-threatening situation, sometimes it's the ones without a belief who actually have their head on straight and are performing actions to combat the enemy and increase their own troops' odds of survival, while the religious individual ducks behind cover and does nothing but pray, effectively making them useless, and endangering the lives of their fellow soldiers.
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    Sep 18, 2014 4:46 PM GMT
    Kodiak said
    libertpaulian said
    Snaz saidLOL, wtf, they're not in a foxhole - they're fucking airforce lol, lol I can't believe people are this controlling so stupid and boring :O

    It's an expression meaning that atheists aren't so adamant about their irreligion when they're put in a dangerous or extremely life-altering situation. In said situations, they're automatically "believers" crying out to a god of some sort.


    I also think UndercoverMan was just being sarcastic/funny when he said that (no atheists in foxholes).

    Thankfully, and in some cases regrettably due to their death, we have plenty of stories and examples--evidence--that clearly shows there are atheists in fox holes. We also have some evidence that shows when soldiers are in a life-threatening situation, sometimes it's the ones without a belief who actually have their head on straight and are performing actions to combat the enemy and increase their own troops' odds of survival, while the religious individual ducks behind cover and does nothing but pray, effectively making them useless, and endangering the lives of their fellow soldiers.


    I just knew some idiot was going to take the foxhole comment literally. Some people are too slow witted to think metaphorically. icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Sep 18, 2014 4:57 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    Ex_Mil8 said...

    Chaplains are another unnecessary religious add-on to the armed forces. Admittedly, they have an important counselling role, in addition to their religious duties, so why not re-title them the 'counselling branch' and ditch the religious element?


    Unnecessary???? Haven't you heard there are no atheists in foxholes?


    You're being sarcastic, right?
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    Sep 18, 2014 5:24 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    Unnecessary???? Haven't you heard there are no atheists in foxholes?


    Well it's hardly a great recommendation for religion, that most people invoke god only as a last resort. I think the foxhole scenario falls into the "can't hurt to try it" category. I can attest that on the few occasions I found myself under enemy fire, I was more concerned with the practicalities of finding good cover and staying alive. 'God' could not have been further from my mind.
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    Sep 18, 2014 5:34 PM GMT
    Kodiak said
    Even while we're waiting for that to happen, why not actually have Chaplains actually be registered and licensed counselors in the first place? Many (most?) chaplains aren't certified counselors--they don't have degrees in sociology or psychology, nor any accreditation from scientific institutions.

    In my inexperienced opinion, I'd make religious counselors civilian employees, then make the church akin to contractor services, and then fund and supply the military with real counselors with training in science, psychology, sociology etcetera, to provide real assistance that treats the underlying issues without any religious element at all. That would get rid of the [legal] conflict between religion and the armed forces (separation of church and state/freedom of and from religion), while still allowing religious people to get the faith/religious support they feel they personally need.


    I couldn't agree more.