ISIS: British Foreign Fighters

  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Sep 17, 2014 5:12 PM GMT
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9293762/the-british-beheaders/

    Opening paragraph:
    It is the now familiar nightmare image. A kneeling prisoner, and behind him a black-hooded man speaking to camera. The standing man denounces the West and claims that his form of Islam is under attack. He then saws off the head of the hostage. Why did Wednesday morning’s video stand out? Because this time the captive was an American journalist — James Foley — and his murderer is speaking in an unmistakable London accent.


    Article concerning the death of James Foley and the phenomenon (pardon that awful word) of British citizens going to Middle-Eastern countries to fight.

    As always, Douglas Murray's prose and commentary is sharp, devastating and oozing precise clarity.
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    Sep 17, 2014 7:37 PM GMT
    Have there been any polls that show how the general British population feels about this issue? Any MPs discussing it?
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Sep 17, 2014 7:56 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidHave there been any polls that show how the general British population feels about this issue? Any MPs discussing it?


    There must have been polls about the issue in and of itself...

    But your question isn't specific enough for me to look one out. Which bit of the issue do you mean? icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 17, 2014 9:38 PM GMT
    It's disappointing that Britain, and even Canada (albeit to a much lesser extent), has a cadre of kids born and raised within the country who have completely rejected Western values in this manner. Clearly they have failed to assimilate into our cultural values and this, I think, is a searing indictment of multi-culturalism as practiced in Western countries.

    Immigration rates are so high that foreign raised immigrants can easily and too often confine themselves to ethnic ghettoes (regardless of wealth). Consequently they are less inclined to interact with others outside their group and confirmation bias ensures that their world view remains unchanged despite finding themselves living within a pluralistic society.
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Sep 17, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
    YVRguy saidIt's disappointing that Britain, and even Canada (albeit to a much lesser extent), has a cadre of kids born and raised within the country who have completely rejected Western values in this manner. Clearly they have failed to assimilate into our cultural values and this, I think, is a searing indictment of multi-culturalism as practiced in Western countries.

    Immigration rates are so high that foreign raised immigrants can easily and too often confine themselves to ethnic ghettoes (regardless of wealth). Consequently they are less inclined to interact with others outside their group and confirmation bias ensures that their world view remains unchanged despite finding themselves living within a pluralistic society.


    Multi-culturalism isn't the utopia it is often made out to be. Partially because people don't distinguish between multi-racialism and multi-culturalism - when there's a clear semantic difference. People tend not to criticise multi-culturalism because they think doing so is racist - even though it isn't, as multi-culturalism has nothing at all to do with race: it's do with culture and ideology (hence the "culture" section in the word). Criticising multi-racialism would be racist. (Again this is me, as usual being a political-pedant - but I do think it's vital we distinguish between the terms).

    The main problem with multi-culturalism is that is that it doesn't bring communities together it just causes segregation. It creates tensions and tribalisms as we're attempting to throw multiple ideologies together into an area and expecting people to get on - of course it's not going to work.

    A good example of this is school dining halls. Different groups of people all fragment and sit with people who are similar to them. Geeks with geeks. Jocks with jocks. Bitchy girls with bitchy girls. Occasionally the groups overlap but not too much. Whilst, I will concede this sounds like a stereotype, I remember clearly my school days being the kid that moved from group to group and noticing how each group was different and had it's own collection of individuals who all had similar traits. It's essentially softened tribalism.

    I don't however think that the ISIS issue is to do with multi-culturalism. I think it's more to do with lack of education and people afraid to criticise extremist Islam - people shouldn't be afraid of this. It's fine to critique an ideology, especially one you disagree with. It's healthy and positive.

    People don't wish to offend or hurt muslims which is fine. But we have to understand the majority of muslims aren't like ISIS and have a completely separate ideology from them, so it's okay to criticise jihadi Islam, it doesn't mean you're islamophobic. A substantial amount of muslims insult, critique, mock and denigrate groups like al-mujahiroun, al-Qaida and ISIS anyway.

    It's also not helped by politics. Watch videos of jihadists, they site American foreign policy and Israel consistently. Whilst I don't think a sensible reaction to protest against the barbarism of US foreign policy is to be barbaric yourself, the foreign policy of the US is clearly a motivation for these ideologically-twisted individuals. This doesn't excuse their actions, but it provides an explanation for them.

    I think a lot of this perhaps is to do with issues of minorities. Muslims themselves make up a small percentage of the population, thus they often feel isolated and alone. It's very easy to groom an isolated and alone child and manipulate his/her angst/anger at the world into extremism and violence. Look at Maajid Nawaz. He was a former extremist, but now an anti-extremist activist. He was bullied, faced racism and was angry at the Bosnian genocides and the UN's delayed reaction to Slobodan Milosevic. All of those intense feelings in a fucking teenager is going to allow warped adults to groom him and drag him into an extremist sect - he said he found a family and friends with such people.

    To solve the issue of terrorism, you have to understand what makes them tick. To decrease terrorism, as well as using intelligence and security measures, you have to prevent young minds being dragged into a pernicious and dangerous ideology. A lot of the issue is to do with preventing bombs going off. But a very important part of this is to prevent people from wishing to make bombs in the first place - stop this and you'll decrease the issue substantially. Doing this is difficult, but is however a long-term strategy.

    Maajid Nawaz also said another thing. He said that to stop jihadi terrorism from spreading or even being able to make it develop in the mind of someone, you need to make the ideology seem as unpopular and as untempting as possible. If you make someone never wish to adopt a certain ideology, then that ideology will never be picked up, believed in and acted upon.
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Sep 17, 2014 10:24 PM GMT
    Also, we need to improve our bargaining skills.

    Foley, Sotloff, Haines have been massacred. Soon a new person will be.

    The US and the UK need to fucking bargain and stop it with this "let's just step back and do nothing" technique.

    We also need to stop the propaganda getting out there. Delete as many pro-ISIS tweets, twitter accounts, videos, blogs as possible. DDOSing the servers in which the propaganda is sent from is a potential idea (although they might have anti-DDOS software).

    Close down as many groups which encourage Islamic extremism...i.e. al-Mujaharoon, Islam4UK. There's freedom of speech and opinion, and then there's these groups who actively encourage violence and praise the violent (al-Mujaharoon have praised the 19 involved in 9/11).

    Overall, don't allow these fuckers a platform. Stop their views from getting out there and make it difficult for them to communicate so that recruitment is more difficult.

    I imagine they're doing this already...but a brief look on twitter and it's really not that difficult to find pro-ISIS twitter accounts. "Freedom of speech" is not an option here - they're not expressing an opinion, they're encouraging violence/praising a group which commits violence (which is essentially the same thing).

    Use any way possible to prevent ISIS from gaining income. Stop their oil-resource selling, or any form of economic-activity that they engage with. If they have no money, then they can't do jack shit.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 19, 2014 11:49 PM GMT
    YVRguy saidIt's disappointing that Britain, and even Canada (albeit to a much lesser extent), has a cadre of kids born and raised within the country who have completely rejected Western values in this manner. Clearly they have failed to assimilate into our cultural values and this, I think, is a searing indictment of multi-culturalism as practiced in Western countries.

    Immigration rates are so high that foreign raised immigrants can easily and too often confine themselves to ethnic ghettoes (regardless of wealth). Consequently they are less inclined to interact with others outside their group and confirmation bias ensures that their world view remains unchanged despite finding themselves living within a pluralistic society.


    True. It's the embrace of Dionysus; the rejection of Apollo.
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Sep 20, 2014 11:35 AM GMT
    Douglas Murray on ISIS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9OuS7ZYKf4