Sep 19, 2014 6:55 AM GMT
Outrageous!
Preppy Catholic students along with its coach, hope they go to prison, fucking evil religion
http://nypost.com/2014/09/18/high-school-coach-tied-to-beating-of-gay-couple-resigns/
High school coach tied to beating of gay couple resigns
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Sep 19, 2014 6:55 AM GMT
Outrageous!
Preppy Catholic students along with its coach, hope they go to prison, fucking evil religion
http://nypost.com/2014/09/18/high-school-coach-tied-to-beating-of-gay-couple-resigns/
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Sep 19, 2014 7:04 AM GMT
Blaming the victims in brutal beating of Philly gay couple? Lawyer says they threw first punch
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/09/blaming_the_victims_in_brutal.html
All this differs with the account of witnesses, the victims and police, who insist that the group of twenty-something males asked the two male victims if they were a couple. When the gay men told them they were, the group allegedly attacked the couple while screaming homophobic slurs at them, NBC10 reports.
Gay Couple Speaks Out After Brutal Assault in Center City
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Gay-Couple-Speaks-Out-After-Brutal-Assault-in-Center-City-275226821.html -
Sep 19, 2014 5:00 PM GMTAnother Closet Case.. Bashing Gays or the Gay in himself. Self Hatred never lies.....it aways surfaces and destroys your Life... GoodBye Job, Hello... Felony Conviction.. -
Sep 19, 2014 5:10 PM GMTChristianity does not permit such violent behavior. When Jesus was asked which is the most important command, he replied as follows:
“'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Following that, Jesus gave the parable of the Good Samaritan which make it clear that the term "neighbor" refers to anyone with whom one comes into contact.
How could anyone possibly see that as evil? Obviously the attackers were not following the most basic principals of Christianity. -
Sep 19, 2014 5:21 PM GMTand Like what..Kathy Griffin would say, 'Like a Gift from Baby Jesus" ...just learned... Victims Wallet and cellphone where taken ...and this was viewed by Police ...which adds on charge of Robbery..Do I hear 25-30 yrs... -
Sep 19, 2014 5:29 PM GMTscruffLA said
Outrageous!
Preppy Catholic students along with its coach, hope they go to prison, fucking evil religion
I attended a Roman Catholic high school and did not witness any violence on school grounds in the four years that I attended. I never saw any pregnant students but that's another story...
Crusades aside, the actions allegedly committed by the assistant high school coach and supposedly some students would have been grounds for immediate dismissal.
I fail to see this incident as a reflection of the values taught at any Catholic school. -
Sep 19, 2014 5:54 PM GMT(1). The Philadelphia DA's office is no longer investigating this as a hate-crime. This is not discretionary. It NEVER should have been a Pennsylvania hate crime because Pennsylvania law does NOT cover sexual orientation (LGBT). Penn is the only state in the Northeast that does not protect LGBT persons with hate crime legislation. The law should change. But it was a mistake for the Philly DA's office to ever label this a hate crime. I suspect they knew the law, and labeled it as such to help smoke out the perps, garner media attention, and get the suspects identified. Now that they have the perps, they're applying the (unfortunate) law as written.
(2). Thankfully, the FEDERAL government, which Pennsylvania is subject to, covers hate crime against LGBT persons. The Matthew Shepard/James Byrd Junior Hate Crimes Prevnetion Act (HCPA) criminalizes as a hate crime attacks motivated BECAUSE OF a person's sexual orientation. Given the facts here, as currently known, this is a clear hate crime.
(3). To that end, apparently Philly councilman Jim Kinney on September 19, 2014 wrote a letter to the US Attorney's office requesting they partner with the Philly DA to investigate/bring a FEDERAL hate crime charge.
As a lawyer who more or less keeps his finger on the pulse of legal issues and politics, I would say there's a 99% change the USDA's office will launch an independent or shared investigation under the HCPA, and IF the facts as alleged prove true (the couple was initially stopped and asked if they were gay, and homophobic slurs were yelled during the attack that left one man with a wired jaw), then I see the USDA's office bringing federal charges and the state letting the feds have the first bite at the apple in terms of prosecution. I do not think the feds would allow a favorable plea deal, so someone or several persons WILL be serving jail time. This case as understood now is NOT suitable for deferred or suspended sentences, or overly sweet plea deals. There might be a plea deal or two to get key testimony from some perpetrators, but there are so many witness in the group that I'm sure plenty will "sing" who didn't do anyhting, and therefore will send their friends up the river without the DA's office even having to persuade with immunity or a plea deal. Incidentally, I love when people admit fault, sing on the stand with federal immunity, and then forget that if the state does not grant immunity they can be prosecuted under the "separate sovereigns" doctrine. Even with lawyers in the mix, these oversights--for lack of a better term--happen all the time. Always get a TOP lawyer, especially when criminal charges might be brought against you.
I hope the perps serve years in prison. No mercy. -
Sep 19, 2014 6:23 PM GMTSvnw688 said(1). The Philadelphia DA's office is no longer investigating this as a hate-crime. This is not discretionary. It NEVER should have been a Pennsylvania hate crime because Pennsylvania law does NOT cover sexual orientation (LGBT). Penn is the only state in the Northeast that does not protect LGBT persons with hate crime legislation. The law should change. But it was a mistake for the Philly DA's office to ever label this a hate crime. I suspect they knew the law, and labeled it as such to help smoke out the perps, garner media attention, and get the suspects identified. Now that they have the perps, they're applying the (unfortunate) law as written.
(2). Thankfully, the FEDERAL government, which Pennsylvania is subject to, covers hate crime against LGBT persons. The Matthew Shepard/James Byrd Junior Hate Crimes Prevnetion Act (HCPA) criminalizes as a hate crime attacks motivated BECAUSE OF a person's sexual orientation. Given the facts here, as currently known, this is a clear hate crime.
(3). To that end, apparently Philly councilman Jim Kinney on September 19, 2014 wrote a letter to the US Attorney's office requesting they partner with the Philly DA to investigate/bring a FEDERAL hate crime charge.
As a lawyer who more or less keeps his finger on the pulse of legal issues and politics, I would say there's a 99% change the USDA's office will launch an independent or shared investigation under the HCPA, and IF the facts as alleged prove true (the couple was initially stopped and asked if they were gay, and homophobic slurs were yelled during the attack that left one man with a wired jaw), then I see the USDA's office bringing federal charges and the state letting the feds have the first bite at the apple in terms of prosecution. I do not think the feds would allow a favorable plea deal, so someone or several persons WILL be serving jail time. This case as understood now is NOT suitable for deferred or suspended sentences, or overly sweet plea deals. There might be a plea deal or two to get key testimony from some perpetrators, but there are so many witness in the group that I'm sure plenty will "sing" who didn't do anyhting, and therefore will send their friends up the river without the DA's office even having to persuade with immunity or a plea deal. Incidentally, I love when people admit fault, sing on the stand with federal immunity, and then forget that if the state does not grant immunity they can be prosecuted under the "separate sovereigns" doctrine. Even with lawyers in the mix, these oversights--for lack of a better term--happen all the time. Always get a TOP lawyer, especially when criminal charges might be brought against you.
I hope the perps serve years in prison. No mercy.
Not the first attack in the news lately, there seems to be a rash of gay attacks especially among gay men around the country, even in the safe haven of the gayborhoods, maybe the press is just reporting more or more victims are reporting the attacks. The increase in camera and videos use seem to help catch the perps. Anything you do in public could be caught on video, some people are just stupid and hopefully, these attackers, along with anyone else who choose to viscously harm us will face due penalty.
As religion loses its grip in the US, those who are on the losing end attack as if they are being held and drowned by giant alligators, part of the last gasp of air before death.
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Sep 19, 2014 6:56 PM GMTNot to beat the alligator metaphor to death: but we'd better gird our loins and prepare for their death roll. I say cameras and lawyers EVERYWHERE! -
Sep 19, 2014 7:00 PM GMTThis hatred against gays or anyone for that matter is repulsive and uncalled for. Its disgusting grrrr
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Sep 19, 2014 7:04 PM GMTSvnw688 saidNot to beat the alligator metaphor to death: but we'd better gird our loins and prepare for their death roll. I say cameras and lawyers EVERYWHERE!
I used alligator and not sharks, sharks will let go of its victims, alligators hang on to them and do not let go
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Sep 19, 2014 8:30 PM GMTscruffLA said
Outrageous!
Preppy Catholic students along with its coach, hope they go to prison, fucking evil religion
Did you even read the article you cited? The Catholic archbishop publicly condemned the attacked and banned the assistant coach, and the other guys were former students who are presumably in their twenties now. -
Sep 19, 2014 9:02 PM GMTYVRguy said
scruffLA said
Outrageous!
Preppy Catholic students along with its coach, hope they go to prison, fucking evil religion
Did you even read the article you cited? The Catholic archbishop publicly condemned the attacked and banned the assistant coach, and the other guys were former students who are presumably in their twenties now.
Have you ever attended a Catholic school? I have, and even the University of Notre Dame. For four years. I'm a proud ND alum, and a proud Catholic, but I do not agree 100% with everything my alma mater and church teaches. If you think that Catholics (at ND and at Catholic churches) don't create, perpetuate and condone a hostile and animus filled environment against LGBT individuals, you are either grossly ignorant or willfully lying.
The point here is not the technical teachings of Christ, which are non violent generally. Here, the issue is that for MOST Catholics in the U.S., what happened here is not that far from the "norm," unfortunately. -
Sep 20, 2014 1:33 AM GMTI did attend a Catholic school, as a matter of fact; a point I mentioned in a post quite some time ago. I will have you know that in our religion class we once watched a movie about an Argentinian gay man who was gay bashed and spent two classes discussing the moral implications of all the actions. It was clearly laid out that attacking someone because he was gay was completely against what Jesus taught. That was in the 1970's!!!
Remember, this was in Canada and it will be no surprise to you recalling that Canada moved forward with legal protections and rights for gays long before the States. The Church may oppose gay marriage on theological grounds but they also drew the line when it came to physically attacking someone. -
Sep 20, 2014 5:49 AM GMTReligion is good.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need. -
Sep 20, 2014 3:57 PM GMTcanadian_stud saidReligion is good.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
If these guys were atheists, what would their reason be for beating up two gay men, or two men who are 'different?'
Without religion, what real, credible, historical, sociological basis is there for racism or sexism? -
Sep 20, 2014 4:05 PM GMTcanadian_stud saidReligion is good.
I have to disagree with you on that.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
Religion is bad.
It's the good people who refuse to commit the barbaric acts called upon by religions who make it seem good. Religion within itself - every religious text - requires barbaric acts against sinners. -
Sep 20, 2014 4:09 PM GMTKodiak said
canadian_stud saidReligion is good.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
If these guys were atheists, what would their reason be for beating up two gay men, or two men who are 'different?'
Without religion, what real, credible, historical, sociological basis is there for racism or sexism?
While an atheist can be a homophobe, religion generally gives an excuse, green light per se. -
Sep 20, 2014 4:10 PM GMTcanadian_stud saidReligion is good.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
Do you want me to quote the old testament (Torah) or the Koran? Choose your poison. -
Sep 20, 2014 5:05 PM GMTKodiak said
canadian_stud saidReligion is good.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
If these guys were atheists, what would their reason be for beating up two gay men, or two men who are 'different?'
Without religion, what real, credible, historical, sociological basis is there for racism or sexism?
+1
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Sep 20, 2014 5:06 PM GMTpaulflexes said
canadian_stud saidReligion is good.
I have to disagree with you on that.
It's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. Even if these guys were atheists they still would have beaten those two men. In addition they didn't have to be gay also, just different. That's all the excuse racists need.
Religion is bad.
It's the good people who refuse to commit the barbaric acts called upon by religions who make it seem good. Religion within itself - every religious text - requires barbaric acts against sinners.
+1
something about cutting off hands and plucking out eye balls, disembowelment anyone? medieval for sure -
Sep 20, 2014 5:18 PM GMTSweetooth said
Kodiak said
canadian_stud saidReligion is good [...]
[...] Without religion, what real, credible, historical, sociological basis is there for racism or sexism?
[...] While an atheist can be a homophobe, religion generally gives an excuse, green light per se.
As soon as I posted, I knew there was more to expand on, and that my point was pretty vague. Yes, religion can be used to justify anything. I was responding more to Canadian Stud's claim:canadian_stud saidIt's crappy people acting in a crappy matter and using their religious beliefs as a cloud for their psychotic behavior. [...]
The general definition of psychotic is: "a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality." The funny thing is, religion does just that: it alters your perception of reality. People who believe in religion are typically going to believe in the supernatural of some form or other, whether it's a god existing, us having souls, spirits in the world, or actual mythical beings manifesting in reality.
Religion alters one's personal reality because of that. Even if their beliefs are their own, if someone is raised to believe homosexuality is a bad, perverse, evil thing, they're likely to act on that belief. Beliefs inform our actions.
So yes, an atheist can be brought up by a family who is homophobic and irreligious, and can be themselves brought up with the belief that homosexuals are bad, perverse, etcetera--and that was the topic I was specifically wanting to bring up:
What real, credible, historical, sociological basis is there for racism or sexism including homophobia, that isn't innately religious in nature? Are there any sources/evidence of this occurring, and are the numbers of people who are homophobic and not religious statistically significant even in the slightest? -
Sep 20, 2014 5:19 PM GMT^I was actually just solidifying your point, and am in total agreement. -
Sep 20, 2014 5:31 PM GMTSweetooth said^I was actually just solidifying your point, and am in total agreement.
Well cheers! Still, gave me a chance to go over my own point again, and expand on it a bit more. Hopefully whoever else reads it understands my point a bit better.
I was just a bit skeptical when you mentioned, "religion generally gives an excuse, green light per se." I'm careful not to use that as an argument, because apologists will often use that as a point in their favor, and roll out the No True Scotsman Fallacy.
"Oh, if they're just using it as an excuse, then they aren't true believers of [religion]!"
Easy enough to tear that down logically, but it's really just a distraction and a waste of time in an argument or discussion. S'all groovy! -
Sep 20, 2014 9:35 PM GMTKodiak said
Sweetooth said^I was actually just solidifying your point, and am in total agreement.
Well cheers! Still, gave me a chance to go over my own point again, and expand on it a bit more. Hopefully whoever else reads it understands my point a bit better.
I was just a bit skeptical when you mentioned, "religion generally gives an excuse, green light per se." I'm careful not to use that as an argument, because apologists will often use that as a point in their favor, and roll out the No True Scotsman Fallacy.
"Oh, if they're just using it as an excuse, then they aren't true believers of [religion]!"
Easy enough to tear that down logically, but it's really just a distraction and a waste of time in an argument or discussion. S'all groovy!
I think we need to make sure we separate actual acts of Christianity from organized religion, for obvious reasons
