This blame on Obama and the middle east has to stop...

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    Sep 21, 2014 4:01 AM GMT
    This thing about Obama not ending the war in Iraq is pure speculation because there was no way we had a clue that ISIS would be the result of it. Obama tried to do the peaceful thing. ISIS wouldn't be there had we not attacked Saddam to begin with. The twin towers would not be shot down if we had not attacked Saddam to begin with. It was the conservatives that opened up that bombshell. Obama just tried to pull them out of there safely. Yes, he killed Osama Bin Laden but we owed that to ourselves. The moment ISIS came about Obama was right back on top of it. Whether you are liberal or conservative we have all learned from this. I am independent so I don't do anything but walk the fine line.
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:01 AM GMT
    We just need to pray to god to know how to do the right thing right now. We are involved now forever and an eternity in this. No liberal or conservative president will solve this problem. We need to think independently. We need to sit back and throw everything we were taught out the door and stop chasing the dog tail of humanity round and round as a two party system and be ourselves. Learn about what the enemies beliefs are in detail. Do it without ethnocentrism. Then find the moments in war in which God puts in front of us to spread the word of love. Even to our enemies. War is not on both sides of the fence, it is merely one side of the fence. The OTHER SIDE is love.
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:08 AM GMT
    I don't care WHAT religion your love comes from... LOVE IS UNDERSTANDING.
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:12 AM GMT
    i dont usually follow politics but, on a ruder side, USA probably won't be this deep in debt if this country dont butt into conflicts around the world.

    (there's a whole bag of worm about good and bad things in US i won't post here)

    and IDK about the praying thing, because there are obviously conservative republicans praying to their God that middle east is wrong or something.
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:16 AM GMT
    leafgreen saidi dont usually follow politics but, on a ruder side, USA probably won't be this deep in debt if this country dont butt into conflicts around the world.

    (there's a whole bag of worm about good and bad things in US i won't post here)

    and IDK about the praying thing, because there are obviously conservative republicans praying to their God that middle east is wrong or something.


    The bible is a testament of human emotion and psychological results of it. It is both good and bad. But Jesus's words ALONE were nothing but love. The first time in any religion before the New Thought Movement came about that I ever heard of love. When I say pray, I don't mean get down on your knees and do it. I mean let it out of your mind in order to let new thoughts come into it. That is the way I pray. PRAYING IS JUST ACKNOWLEDING that which is outside ourselves.
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:27 AM GMT
    Jerred said
    leafgreen saidi dont usually follow politics but, on a ruder side, USA probably won't be this deep in debt if this country dont butt into conflicts around the world.

    (there's a whole bag of worm about good and bad things in US i won't post here)

    and IDK about the praying thing, because there are obviously conservative republicans praying to their God that middle east is wrong or something.


    The bible is a testament of human emotion and psychological results of it. It is both good and bad. But Jesus's words ALONE were nothing but love. The first time in any religion before the New Thought Movement came about that I ever heard of love. When I say pray, I don't mean get down on your knees and do it. I mean let it out of your mind in order to let new thoughts come into it. That is the way I pray. PRAYING IS JUST ACKNOWLEDING that which is outside ourselves.


    im not talking about how you pray, im talking about how some self-rightous people pray for the bad of others... (and tend to be politically loud)

    does this clear up?
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    Sep 21, 2014 4:31 AM GMT
    leafgreen, Oh Okay. I would never approach my maker with bad things whether I believe in him or she or it or not. I can't imagine someone praying for bad things. To me that is another sickness. That is not God they are praying to, that is themselves praying to themselves.
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    Sep 21, 2014 9:47 AM GMT
    silver_phoenix saidThe Middle East is very important strategically. Back in the day some British Empire general called it the Greatest Prize of all.


    IT IS THE OLDEST LIVING PLACE ON THIS EARTH to have the religious nostalgia left in it that can probably unite into a puzzle piece that explains the koran, jewish waiting on the messiah, and god knows what else but they have the potential to keep biblical history still in the making. They actually could add a new chapter to the bible if they just put their heads together and gave the message rather than kill themselves over it. TELL US WHAT DISRUPTS YOU. Stop killing your own continent. They have manipulated eachothers beliefs so much I don't even know where to reference them anymore. Wouldn't it be nice to have the PRESIDENT of the ISIS Corporation sit down in an interview describing what drives his spirit? Then to interview the Jewish. Then to interview the "muslims". And fuck man, Saudi Arabia too. What do you see about us that you dislike so much and why. THAT IS THE STARTING POINT TO ENDING THIS WAR.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Sep 21, 2014 1:00 PM GMT
    Oil (and religion), but mostly Oil
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    Sep 21, 2014 1:43 PM GMT
    ISIS didn't just crawl outta the wood work.. they've been there.. for a while... and guess what.. after them, there will be another one that pops up.

    Heres my opinion... the middle east is always going to be like an STD, and going to have "flair ups"

    USA sees it as an opportunity for our Army; because at the end of the day the Army is a career path move.
    If ANY president would just be like.. "we're done over there, we've had it" and bring everyone home and pull the plug on the whole thing... a good chuck of those people will be looking for jobs, sky rocketing the unemployment rate? and the president will take the blame.

    That is why when ANY president stands up there and says "I am going to end the war".. they're full of shit. Sorry bout it, but its true.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Sep 21, 2014 2:16 PM GMT
    jerred, let's send you over there to pray and talk with them, tell me how it goes

    No one is blaming Obama for the rise of ISIS, although we could have had a significant impact if we drew the line in Syria earlier-but they were just not as strong AND now people are blaming Obama on what is happening now and what could present itself as a very dangerous situation.

    People don't feel safe anymore, and so who do they blame? The President of course icon_razz.gif And now he is showing that he really is horrible at foreign relations
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    Sep 21, 2014 2:54 PM GMT
    I have a lot of opinions on this thing, but my philosophy mood is failing, so sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever, and preface everything I type with, "in my inexperienced, potentially misguided opinion"...

    That dust bowl has been engaged in a war for the past two thousand years. The only way it'll possibly end, once and for all, is for it to:
    a) Run out of resources (oil) worthy of conquest (as it also prompts the rest of the world to be involved as long as there are resources there worthy of plunder).
    b) Abolish/Convert religion (the idea that one group has god-given rights to land/resources over the other, used as justification for war, in-fighting, bringing their fight overseas, etcetera).
    c) Run out of people (no people, no religious dogma/justification, no exploitation of resources...and no likelihood of actually occurring).

    The middle east is a kitchen stove--a burner, turned on high heat, and so far the modern world has just been pouring water onto the burner. It cools it off for a while, but the thing is still turned on, and it's just gonna heat back up. Doesn't matter if Bush was the one with the bucket, or Obama, or anyone else. At most we can blame them for wasting a bit of water and time--but what other solutions do we have? (I don't know, I'm not a military/political leader).

    "Using that analogy, why not just turn off the burner?" Because it's been on so long, the heat has made everything near the burner's proximity burning hot too--and not only is it difficult to touch the control without burning yourself, but it's started to melt, and is resisting you turning it!

    That's all I got. Oh, as for ISIS? Can anyone point, for me, at a radical, extremist terrorist cell with weapons, guns, an intention to kill their enemy, who isn't using religious justification for their violence/rape/suicide bombing/bombing/general terrorism/etcetera?


    *Note, I think I went off topic here, so, to return on-topic, I'm gonna go with what Joeyphx444's put down:

    "People don't feel safe anymore, and so who do they blame? The President of course icon_razz.gif And now he is showing that he really is horrible at foreign relations"

    Cause that probably makes a lot more sense than what I went on about. +1!
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    Sep 21, 2014 5:30 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidTwo points:

    1) This topic should be in the News and Politics forum.

    2) For those who don't know (and I suspect many here do not know), just a few months ago Obama showed just how ignorant he is about foreign policy when he called ISIS a "Junior Varsity" team:

    Q: Did President Barack Obama actually refer to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) as the equivalent of “a jayvee team?”

    A: Obama did say that in an interview that appeared in the Jan. 27 issue of The New Yorker, after ISIS captured Fallujah.


    http://jacksonville.com/reason/fact-check/2014-09-20/story/fact-check-did-obama-backpedal-calling-isis-jayvee-team


    ^+1. Thanks for a needed dose of reality and facts in this thread.
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    Sep 21, 2014 5:55 PM GMT
    It's Muslim against Muslims that both want death to the infidels. Blow up the oils wells that fuel their hate and get out and stay out.
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    Sep 21, 2014 6:18 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidIt's Muslim against Muslims that both want death to the infidels. Blow up the oils wells that fuel their hate and get out and stay out.


    The Muslim religion though has also been warped especially by the terrorists. I have nothing against the foundation of Muslim religion. It is just obvious that some of them have twisted it into something different. Christians have done it too. Look at Mormonism.
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    Sep 21, 2014 6:47 PM GMT
    That's the thing--any religion can be 'warped' from what it was originally. So how do we know that any religion that exists today is "unwarped" or not warped at all? There's no way to tell. We don't know when religion began, we don't know the exact date and hour that these religions started and evolved into their more common forms. We have hundreds of denominations of christianity today--how the hell do we tell which is, THE christianity? It's impossible given the current data and evidence we have available today--we just don't have enough of it.

    Note I'm using christianity as my example here, but this applies to all religions--to be more on topic, you can just replace christianity in this post with islam and the point is still valid.
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    Sep 21, 2014 6:53 PM GMT
    Kodiak saidThat's the thing--any religion can be 'warped' from what it was originally. So how do we know that any religion that exists today is "unwarped" or not warped at all? There's no way to tell. We don't know when religion began, we don't know the exact date and hour that these religions started and evolved into their more common forms. We have hundreds of denominations of christianity today--how the hell do we tell which is, THE christianity? It's impossible given the current data and evidence we have available today--we just don't have enough of it.

    Note I'm using christianity as my example here, but this applies to all religions--to be more on topic, you can just replace christianity in this post with islam and the point is still valid.


    I agree. As long as they don't change the original texts I think everything will be just fine. But they did take out the Book of Mary which I hope to find it somehow someday.
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    Sep 21, 2014 7:28 PM GMT
    Uninformed liberals, let's go to the videotape:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txc70N2Xv_U

    In the summer of 2007, Bush warned of the dire consequence of pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq against the advice of our commanders on the ground. All of Washington was telling Bush that the surge he had launched would fail and that the time had come to withdraw from Iraq and accept defeat.

    At a White House news conference on July 12, 2007, Bush declared: “I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we’re ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al-Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean we’d be increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”

    He had no idea at the time how prophetic his words would be.

    In 2010, Obama did precisely what Bush warned against and withdrew all U.S. forces from Iraq — overruling his commander on the ground, Gen. Lloyd J. Austin III, who had recommended that Obama keep 24,000 troops. And since then, everything that Bush warned would happen has come to pass.

    Bush warned that withdrawing against the advice of our military commanders would result in “mass killings on a horrific scale.” Check. We’re now seeing mass killings on a horrific scale — summary executions, women and children buried alive, people being crucified, the attempted genocide of the Yazidis and two American journalists beheaded.

    Bush warned that withdrawal would “allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan.” Check. The Islamic State now controls a safe haven the size of Belgium.

    Bush warned withdrawing too soon would “mean we’d be increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.” Check. The Islamic State is far more dangerous now, the United States is back carrying out airstrikes in Iraq and Obama will address the nation on Wednesday to lay out a new military strategy to defeat the Islamic State.

    That’s not all. In a July 14, 2007, radio address, Bush also warned that U.S. withdrawal would allow “terrorists to . . . gain control of vast oil resources they could use to fund new attacks on America.” Check. The Islamic State now controls vast oil resources, which are bringing the group an estimated $3 million a day — helping it to become the wealthiest terror network in the world.
  • Nakedman1969

    Posts: 247

    Sep 21, 2014 7:31 PM GMT
    Obama is the blame he pulled our troops out and he has lied hes doing things behind every bodies back he can't be trusted!!!!
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Sep 21, 2014 7:36 PM GMT
    He is to blame ,he supported the bad guys, the muslim brothers in egypt,a regim that was activly trying to turn egypt into a muslim sharia controled state,luckily the egyptians were more clever then him and his impotent administration and overtrow that horrible goverment.
    He neglected U.S allys like egypt saudi-arabia and israel.
    he lost credibility [or the U.S has] when threatening with action and not doing nothing.
    He allies himself with the biggest supporter of the muslim brothers the one that Finance terrorist organizations,Qatar.
    he thinks turkey is an ally although they are clearly operating in a diffrent way,they are a part of NATO but wont let nato use bases from turkey to act against ISIS, and more then that most of the recruits for ISIS go through turkey,turkey also buys oil from ISIS thats how they became rich.

    i can go on and on ,this is just what came to my mind now.


    i think praying is bullshit but if you enjoy that,....
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    Sep 21, 2014 7:39 PM GMT
    This blame on Obama and the middle east has to stop...

    It doesn't have to stop, because it's good fodder for the Right Wing. And confuses the issue of who was REALLY responsible for this Middle East quagmire that Obama inherited from Bush and his neocon friends.

    From Day One of the first Obama Administration they have been blaming everything on Obama. Do you know the majority of Republican voters in Louisiana today believe that President Obama is responsible for the disastrously inept Federal response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005? Even though GW Bush still had 3 more years in the White House?

    Evidence of the Republican and Right Wing propaganda machine, on Fox News and conservative radio, working 24/7, 365. So OF COURSE Iraq and Afghanistan are Obama's fault, and the recession, and the housing collapse, and unemployment, etc, it's ALL Obama's fault. And Republicans believe this.
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    Sep 21, 2014 7:42 PM GMT
    mx5guynj, hmmm. I don't at all think it was wrong what Bush did. I am just trying to bring balance amongst the two party system. But you are right, they need to listen to eachother first. I think as a nation we have done a GREAT job as a whole. I am proud of every president. I remember when Bush Jr. took over and literally had to deal with the war on america and the liberals were so busy judging him on some miniscule thing that supposedly disqualified him from becoming president. I remember they kept him out of his office in the beginning. No, he did the right thing too. Again, I am proud of America. Why the fuck I am being protected makes no sense to me. One Nation Under God... That one still fascinates me. Intellectually I can believe it but in my heart I am not sure I can let a deity in. I am a true skeptic. But I am still willing to explore. If God does exist I am being the most heartless bastard. But that is between me and IT when the time comes.
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    Sep 21, 2014 7:54 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidThis blame on Obama and the middle east has to stop...

    It doesn't have to stop, because it's good fodder for the Right Wing. And confuses the issue of who was REALLY responsible for this Middle East quagmire that Obama inherited from Bush and his neocon friends.

    From Day One of the first Obama Administration they have been blaming everything on Obama. Do you know the majority of Republican voters in Louisiana today believe that President Obama is responsible for the disastrously inept Federal response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005? Even though GW Bush still had 3 more years in the White House?

    Evidence of the Republican and Right Wing propaganda machine, on Fox News and conservative radio, working 24/7, 365. So OF COURSE Iraq and Afghanistan are Obama's fault, and the recession, and the housing collapse, and unemployment, etc, it's ALL Obama's fault. And Republicans believe this.


    sometimes I think dumb or gullible people in this country are not allow to vote...

    Do we really have people in this country this stupid that only listens to ONE news source?
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    Sep 21, 2014 7:58 PM GMT
    Kodiak saidI have a lot of opinions on this thing, but my philosophy mood is failing, so sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever, and preface everything I type with, "in my inexperienced, potentially misguided opinion"...

    That dust bowl has been engaged in a war for the past two thousand years. The only way it'll possibly end, once and for all, is for it to:
    a) Run out of resources (oil) worthy of conquest (as it also prompts the rest of the world to be involved as long as there are resources there worthy of plunder).
    b) Abolish/Convert religion (the idea that one group has god-given rights to land/resources over the other, used as justification for war, in-fighting, bringing their fight overseas, etcetera).
    c) Run out of people (no people, no religious dogma/justification, no exploitation of resources...and no likelihood of actually occurring).

    The middle east is a kitchen stove--a burner, turned on high heat, and so far the modern world has just been pouring water onto the burner. It cools it off for a while, but the thing is still turned on, and it's just gonna heat back up. Doesn't matter if Bush was the one with the bucket, or Obama, or anyone else. At most we can blame them for wasting a bit of water and time--but what other solutions do we have? (I don't know, I'm not a military/political leader).

    "Using that analogy, why not just turn off the burner?" Because it's been on so long, the heat has made everything near the burner's proximity burning hot too--and not only is it difficult to touch the control without burning yourself, but it's started to melt, and is resisting you turning it!

    That's all I got. Oh, as for ISIS? Can anyone point, for me, at a radical, extremist terrorist cell with weapons, guns, an intention to kill their enemy, who isn't using religious justification for their violence/rape/suicide bombing/bombing/general terrorism/etcetera?


    *Note, I think I went off topic here, so, to return on-topic, I'm gonna go with what Joeyphx444's put down:

    "People don't feel safe anymore, and so who do they blame? The President of course icon_razz.gif And now he is showing that he really is horrible at foreign relations"

    Cause that probably makes a lot more sense than what I went on about. +1!


    +1
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    Sep 21, 2014 8:11 PM GMT
    leafgreen said
    Do we really have people in this country this stupid that only listens to ONE news source?

    Yep, absolutely. Whereas I listen to many, including the BBC.

    I learned this when I lived in West Berlin, Germany, in the late 1970s. Still being an occupied city following WWII, the French, British, Americans, West Berliners and East Berliners (Soviets) all broadcast their own TV programs.

    Problem was, they all broadcast on separate TV standards, that each TV type could not receive. The US had NTSC, the Brits and West Germans PAL, and the French and East Germans/Soviets SECAM.

    So I bought a Panasonic TV that had a switch that allowed me to receive all 3 of those standards. A lot more expensive, but I wanted to see everything being broadcast in the city.

    The news was a revelation. The Soviets had just invaded Afghanistan, leading the US to boycott the Olympics. The stories about it from the news services were completely different.

    The US and the USSR were either the hero or the villain. And US news tended to omit negative stories about the US, that the rest of the world was covering. It was an eye-opener for me, of how news can be repressed, and manipulated, to suit the political agenda of different countries.

    So that today I take all news with a grain of salt. Whether it's TV news, or the tabloids displayed in a US supermarket checkout line. "Aliens Abduct Man In Maryland!" "Brad & Jolie's Marriage Already Crumbling!" Yeah, right. And so I view most other news sources today. And if you wanna believe anything Fox News broadcasts, I've got a bridge for you... icon_rolleyes.gif