Did Jesus Feed 5000 because Everybody Forgot to Pack Lunch or Was There a Famine?

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    Sep 22, 2014 6:00 AM GMT
    Word of Mouth: Jesus will be speaking.
    We have to go hear him speak.
    It's likely to be an all day event.
    Let's tell our wives to pack something for us to eat and drink.

    How can 5,000 people forget to bring something to eat?

    Jesus did a miracle and fed a small baseball stadium of people.

    -OR-

    There was a famine and Jesus was providing famine relief. Jesus was a king. King Izates was that king. His mother is Queen Helena. She bought figs for famine relief. She bought famine-priced grain from Egypt for famine relief.

    After looking at a few pages in Land and Economy in Ancient Palestine, a book published in 1997, I can answer a question I got earlier today. Was the famine just in Jerusalem because when Jesus fed the 5000 he later crossed the Sea of Galilee from Capernaum? Whatever the cities and body of water involved, when Jesus fed the 5,000, it was north of Jerusalem. Queen Helena's palace was right outside Jerusalem.

    Response:

    Euergetism (also called evergetism), derived from the Greek word “εὐεργετέω,” meaning “doing good deeds,” was the ancient practice of high-status and wealthy individuals in society distributing part of their wealth to the community. This was evident in the patron-client relations in ancient Rome.

    The euergetism of Queen Helena and King Izates would not have prevented them from traveling throughout Palestine distributing money, figs, and grain.
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    Sep 22, 2014 6:01 AM GMT
    Of course, the problem then becomes, Jesus feeding the 5,000 opens up the timeline of Jesus' life because the famine happened circa 47 Common Era.
  • ASHDOD

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    Sep 22, 2014 11:05 AM GMT
    mmm ,i''m guessing you are taking what's written in the bible [old and new testament] as history, its a faith thing and ill not enter into it

    just to clear one thing out, Judea [and Jerusalem its capital] was a diffrent country then the area where jesus was residing ,all weere knigdoms under Rome,rulled by hairs of Herod The Great.

    geograficly ,its somthing like 120 miles from kapernaum to jerusalem . long way for that time,and the people although saw themselvs as one nation nevertheless were diffrent types [farmes vs city folk]
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    Sep 22, 2014 1:51 PM GMT
    I wonder if there was a chicken option. I hate fish.
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    Sep 22, 2014 3:49 PM GMT
    it's cuz he was a fucking commie, man
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    Sep 22, 2014 4:09 PM GMT
    I've always wondered how you give raw fish to 5000 people in a field. Did they all bring knives to scale and gut them? An unreported "Miracle of the Knives"?

    Is this the origin of uncooked sushi? I can't begin to imagine the stench and mess of gutting 5000 fish in a field. Or did they just bite into the fish whole, like Gollum/Smeagol from The Lord of the Rings? Or maybe they all brought barbeque grills, and had a big cookout?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 22, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
    It wouldn't have had to be uncooked fish. However, there is another possibility.

    The NT wasn't written until many years after the crucifixion. It is likely that the Sermon on the Mount never even occurred. It seems more likely that the sayings of Jesus were gathered together and written down for didactic purposes. Thus, although the "Sermon on the Mount" was probably an accurate compendium of the teachings of Jesus, it did not necessarily actually occur. That does not make it less valuable.

    There are various explanations of the Feeding of the Multitude and it is unlikely that we will ever know for certain what actually happened. It may be that many in the multitude brought plenty of food with them but were not inclined to share it with those who had no food. Jesus may have inspired them to share resulting in the feeding of everyone which would have been a miracle. Or, it may have been a later invention.

    In ancient times, people were less diligent about accurately quoting, attributing, reporting, etc. Even now, when we read a news article, we cannot be certain of its accuracy because the reporter may not understand his subject, because of bias, of because of carelessness.
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Sep 22, 2014 7:48 PM GMT
    Btw the sermon on the mountain [and i think scholars agree with me] is probably one of the more authentic parts in the new testament ,as an hebrew speaker i can tell you that i can feel it was written originaly in hebrew and not translated to greek[ the new testament was written originaly in greek]

    and more then that in my humble opinion one of the more beautifull parts in the new testament ,the hebrew is authentic and beautifull [and of course beautifull ideas there]
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 22, 2014 10:34 PM GMT
    Ashdod saidBtw the sermon on the mountain [and i think scholars agree with me] is probably one of the more authentic parts in the new testament ,as an hebrew speaker i can tell you that i can feel it was written originaly in hebrew and not translated to greek[ the new testament was written originaly in greek]

    and more then that in my humble opinion one of the more beautifull parts in the new testament ,the hebrew is authentic and beautifull [and of course beautifull ideas there]


    It would be nice to be able to read the Bible in the original Hebrew. The fact that the Sermon on the Mount probably was not delivered on the Mount or all at one time in no way diminishes its content which I also see as authentic.
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Sep 22, 2014 10:40 PM GMT
    the new testament in hebrew is usualy not a great reading, its translated from greek,thats why the sermon on the mountain is special cos u can hear its not a translation ,but sombody that realy was there and wrote it down,thats what i ment authentic.

  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 22, 2014 11:19 PM GMT
    Ashdod saidthe new testament in hebrew is usualy not a great reading, its translated from greek,thats why the sermon on the mountain is special cos u can hear its not a translation ,but sombody that realy was there and wrote it down,thats what i ment authentic.



    I'd guess that it was probably written down by several people over a period of time during Jesus' ministry, then later it was all put together. I wouldn't expect it to be perfectly accurate in a verbatim sense, but I think that it accurately conveys Jesus' teachings.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 22, 2014 11:29 PM GMT
    I've always wondered how speakers addressed large crowds in earlier times when there was no electronic amplification. We know that sometimes speakers addressed audiences of thousands of people, but how could everyone hear? Was it only speakers who had astounding vocal capability who could address large crowds? Does anyone know?
  • fitartistsf

    Posts: 638

    Sep 22, 2014 11:49 PM GMT
    Jesus didn't feed anybody, because it didn't happen… just another myth, modified from an earlier culture's myth...
  • fitartistsf

    Posts: 638

    Sep 22, 2014 11:53 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidI've always wondered how speakers addressed large crowds in earlier times when there was no electronic amplification. We know that sometimes speakers addressed audiences of thousands of people, but how could everyone hear? Was it only speakers who had astounding vocal capability who could address large crowds? Does anyone know?


    If you stand in the middle of one of the ancient Roman, or ancient Greek amphitheaters that still exist, you can hear somebody talking up in the seats and they can hear you speak down on the ground floor… It's all about acoustics and how sound is carried in waves from the speaker to the listener...
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 23, 2014 12:22 AM GMT
    fitartistsf said
    FRE0 saidI've always wondered how speakers addressed large crowds in earlier times when there was no electronic amplification. We know that sometimes speakers addressed audiences of thousands of people, but how could everyone hear? Was it only speakers who had astounding vocal capability who could address large crowds? Does anyone know?


    If you stand in the middle of one of the ancient Roman, or ancient Greek amphitheaters that still exist, you can hear somebody talking up in the seats and they can hear you speak down on the ground floor… It's all about acoustics and how sound is carried in waves from the speaker to the listener...


    Sometimes ancient people were more clever than we give them credit for. But in some cases, speeches were given outside in which case it would have been more difficult. The invention of the vacuum tube, microphone, and electric speaker changed everything.
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    Sep 23, 2014 2:21 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI've always wondered how you give raw fish to 5000 people in a field. Did they all bring knives to scale and gut them? An unreported "Miracle of the Knives"?

    Is this the origin of uncooked sushi? I can't begin to imagine the stench and mess of gutting 5000 fish in a field. Or did they just bite into the fish whole, like Gollum/Smeagol from The Lord of the Rings? Or maybe they all brought barbeque grills, and had a big cookout?


    Thank you.

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    Sep 23, 2014 2:24 AM GMT
    Ashdod saidBtw the sermon on the mountain [and i think scholars agree with me] is probably one of the more authentic parts in the new testament ,as an hebrew speaker i can tell you that i can feel it was written originaly in hebrew and not translated to greek[ the new testament was written originaly in greek]

    and more then that in my humble opinion one of the more beautifull parts in the new testament ,the hebrew is authentic and beautifull [and of course beautiful ideas there]


    I haven't heard it in Aramaic or Hebrew. I trust what you're saying.
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    Sep 23, 2014 2:29 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    Art_Deco saidI've always wondered how you give raw fish to 5000 people in a field. Did they all bring knives to scale and gut them? An unreported "Miracle of the Knives"?

    Is this the origin of uncooked sushi? I can't begin to imagine the stench and mess of gutting 5000 fish in a field. Or did they just bite into the fish whole, like Gollum/Smeagol from The Lord of the Rings? Or maybe they all brought barbeque grills, and had a big cookout?

    Thank you.

    You're very welcome. I do think about these things. Do you really hand out raw fish to an outdoor crowd, for them to eat? If they were in fact cooked fillets, or something else, you think the stories would have said so. icon_confused.gif
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    Sep 23, 2014 2:29 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    Ashdod saidBtw the sermon on the mountain [and i think scholars agree with me] is probably one of the more authentic parts in the new testament ,as an hebrew speaker i can tell you that i can feel it was written originaly in hebrew and not translated to greek[ the new testament was written originaly in greek]

    and more then that in my humble opinion one of the more beautifull parts in the new testament ,the hebrew is authentic and beautifull [and of course beautifull ideas there]


    It would be nice to be able to read the Bible in the original Hebrew. The fact that the Sermon on the Mount probably was not delivered on the Mount or all at one time in no way diminishes its content which I also see as authentic.


    The Mount of Olives was a venue for public speakers. An Egyptian Prophet used it, in addition to Jesus.

    Antiquities of the Jews 20 - 8 - 6 - 169-172

    Moreover, there came out of Egypt about this time to Jerusalem, one that said he was a prophet, and advised the multitude of the common people to go along with him to the Mount of Olives...
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    Sep 23, 2014 2:32 AM GMT
    FRE0, given the lack of an amphitheater in the side of a mountain, a mount or mountain could reasonably be a site for speakers with an audience.
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    Sep 23, 2014 2:35 AM GMT
    FRE0 saidI've always wondered how speakers addressed large crowds in earlier times when there was no electronic amplification. We know that sometimes speakers addressed audiences of thousands of people, but how could everyone hear? Was it only speakers who had astounding vocal capability who could address large crowds? Does anyone know?


    I think it was Reza Aslan, author of the NYT Bestseller, Zealot who recently mentioned that near Nazareth was Sepphoris where an amphitheater was built before Jesus began his ministry. If Jesus and/or his father were carpenters, they could have worked on that project.

    Second, with disciples, one could scout locations for speakers.
  • pharmstudent

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    Sep 23, 2014 3:56 AM GMT
    He used Pinterest
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 23, 2014 5:27 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidWord of Mouth: Jesus will be speaking.
    We have to go hear him speak.
    It's likely to be an all day event.
    Let's tell our wives to pack something for us to eat and drink.

    How can 5,000 people forget to bring something to eat?

    Jesus did a miracle and fed a small baseball stadium of people.

    -OR-

    There was a famine and Jesus was providing famine relief. Jesus was a king. King Izates was that king. His mother is Queen Helena. She bought figs for famine relief. She bought famine-priced grain from Egypt for famine relief.

    After looking at a few pages in Land and Economy in Ancient Palestine, a book published in 1997, I can answer a question I got earlier today. Was the famine just in Jerusalem because when Jesus fed the 5000 he later crossed the Sea of Galilee from Capernaum? Whatever the cities and body of water involved, when Jesus fed the 5,000, it was north of Jerusalem. Queen Helena's palace was right outside Jerusalem.

    Response:

    Euergetism (also called evergetism), derived from the Greek word “εὐεργετέω,” meaning “doing good deeds,” was the ancient practice of high-status and wealthy individuals in society distributing part of their wealth to the community. This was evident in the patron-client relations in ancient Rome.

    The euergetism of Queen Helena and King Izates would not have prevented them from traveling throughout Palestine distributing money, figs, and grain.
    wthitpa?
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    Sep 23, 2014 6:41 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    Ashdod saidBtw the sermon on the mountain [and i think scholars agree with me] is probably one of the more authentic parts in the new testament ,as an hebrew speaker i can tell you that i can feel it was written originaly in hebrew and not translated to greek[ the new testament was written originaly in greek]

    and more then that in my humble opinion one of the more beautifull parts in the new testament ,the hebrew is authentic and beautifull [and of course beautifull ideas there]


    It would be nice to be able to read the Bible in the original Hebrew. The fact that the Sermon on the Mount probably was not delivered on the Mount or all at one time in no way diminishes its content which I also see as authentic.


    If you mean the New Testament, there is no original Hebrew version. It was written in Greek with a splash of Aramaic here and there.
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    Sep 23, 2014 6:49 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    fitartistsf said
    FRE0 saidI've always wondered how speakers addressed large crowds in earlier times when there was no electronic amplification. We know that sometimes speakers addressed audiences of thousands of people, but how could everyone hear? Was it only speakers who had astounding vocal capability who could address large crowds? Does anyone know?


    If you stand in the middle of one of the ancient Roman, or ancient Greek amphitheaters that still exist, you can hear somebody talking up in the seats and they can hear you speak down on the ground floor… It's all about acoustics and how sound is carried in waves from the speaker to the listener...


    Sometimes ancient people were more clever than we give them credit for. But in some cases, speeches were given outside in which case it would have been more difficult. The invention of the vacuum tube, microphone, and electric speaker changed everything.


    It was a cosmetic change. Sure, now we have amplification to hear the sayings of the wise. A pity there are very few wise left.

    Enviro-fascist Bill McKibben issuing verbal collectivist manifestos in Manhattan this past weekend to adoring and credulous morons shows how far we have fallen.