When Gay Guys Get Drunk, You Shut Your Mouth

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    Sep 24, 2014 12:39 AM GMT
    I know this, I should have practiced this yesterday. As my husband said to me tonight: "Bob, you've been out of the Army for 20 years. You don't always have to WIN! Just let it go!" He's right. It's often my mistake online, as well. Just very hard to let it go.

    I told him today about an incident yesterday, after he left with a gay bar owner to raise money for the charity bicycle team the bar is sponsoring. I was still at the bar, with 2 of our friends. One got quite drunk, and confrontational.

    He was saying how there's no such thing as gay love. And gay marriage is an illusion. Most marriages end in divorces. And wanting to legalize gay marriage was merely mercenary, to get money benefits.

    And I tried to be calm & diplomatic. I explained that some of us like me are the "marrying kind" and some are not. That I don't like to sleep in an empty bed, in an empty house. I sleep best with a man beside me, which is true. I live best with a man than without one, regardless of finances.

    So gay marriage for me is more than just monetary advantages, and that's why I have a partner whom I can't legally marry yet in Florida. I actually love the guy for himself, he's not a financial scheme for me, nor am I for him.

    But this guy went on and on, how I didn't really love my husband, no gays love other gays, it's all about money and taking advantage of each other. And we'd ultimately divorce. Kinda insulting, yes? But I kept my temper. He said he'd been dumped by guys before, it's how all gay relationships end, nobody loves him.

    Finally he said something questioning the state of his gay relationships, and having lost my patience I said: "Well, you've already told us - nobody in the gay world will love you."

    BOOM! How DARE I say that to him? He jumped up from his seat and promptly left in a fit of rage. Now he's a friend of my husband's going back over 20 years. So I immediately had to inform my husband as soon as I saw him. And today we saw the other friend who was there, who confirmed my version of the event.

    But I'm still in the doghouse. "Bob, don't try to win every argument. You should have said nothing." Yeah, well, tough when this guy is telling me we don't love each other, and our relationship is gonna end in divorce. But my husband is right. When a guy is drunk, just zip it. icon_sad.gif
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    Sep 24, 2014 1:31 AM GMT
    You messed up and should have shut your mouth.

    You should have punched the guy instead. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 24, 2014 1:40 AM GMT
    xrichx said
    You messed up and should have shut your mouth.

    You should have punched the guy instead. icon_biggrin.gif

    LOL! Well, no, I don't punch anybody, unless it's a criminal using violence against us. Which has actually happened.

    But yeah, you and my husband are right, I should have shut my mouth. Let a drunk ramble on, even if it is offensive & insulting to us. What he says has no value, doesn't linger, and goes no farther than a few feet. And that's the moral in this thread, why I posted it.

    We just hope he won't remember much of the incident, because we still like him, and value his friendship. But damn, some people really don't handle their liquor very well. icon_sad.gif
  • Inque

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    Sep 24, 2014 1:48 AM GMT
    You should not have shut your mouth. Ignorance deserves to be put down and shamed.
  • LEANDRO_NJ

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    Sep 24, 2014 2:37 AM GMT
    My sweet sweet long time friend don't let someone's opinion of your love life, whether they told you drunk or sober, affect how you live it! besides those kind of people are usually bittered, jaded, and filled with hatred AND envy. Why in the world an opinion from someone like that would matter, much less let it bother you!? that kind of element is not worth yours or anyones' time!
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    Sep 24, 2014 2:56 AM GMT
    He seems like a bitter fuck, I would have said much worse.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:09 AM GMT
    Art Deco, your case might be different but I have to agree with some things and no I am not drunk...

    Divorce and separation is extremely high UNLESS they have open relationships or lots of money. And even the relationships between gay business owners who are completely monogamous are made up of nothing but bickering with eachother. I have witnessed it from the inside of the businesses out when I was a private contractor in my field. The only gay relationships that seem to work out well are amongst Lesbians. I have slept with dozens and dozens of gay couples back in the day even without LOOKING for it to happen. I have been frustrated and spoke about it in an overgeneralizing manner just like he did which I am learning to make exceptions as FEW as they appear to me.

    But you are right, when a person is drunk they do overgeneralize. I will not judge your relationship personally but I will point out what I see happening everywhere.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:16 AM GMT
    Jerred saidArt Deco, your case might be different but I have to agree with some things and no I am not drunk...

    Divorce and separation is extremely high UNLESS they have open relationships or lots of money. And even the relationships between gay business owners who are completely monogamous are made up of nothing but bickering with eachother. I have witnessed it from the inside of the businesses out when I was a private contractor in my field. The only gay relationships that seem to work out well are amongst Lesbians. I have slept with dozens and dozens of gay couples back in the day even without LOOKING for it to happen. I have been frustrated and spoke about it in an overgeneralizing manner just like he did which I am learning to make exceptions as FEW as they appear to me.

    But you are right, when a person is drunk they do overgeneralize. I will not judge your relationship personally but I will point out what I see happening everywhere.


    Anecdotal evidence. The sample size of homos you hang out with is obviously indicative of the gay community as a whole.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:25 AM GMT
    Sweettooth... TOO FUNNY. I hung out at all the gay scenes for years and have been around THOUSANDS just here in Southern California. To walk into famous gay bars every day of the week and see couples flirting with other couples was no small thing. I never even see that walking into a straight bar or club. Take a good look at this website... I've only seen three married couples or committed relationships and yet I see many profiles in which they are suppose to be in a relationship yet they do nothing but sexually flirt with others. Not my imagination at this point. Hell, there was suppose to be a very respectable gay resteraunt here for years and sometimes I would walk into the restroom and see a gay giving another guy a blowjob in the restroom then come out and sit at their table again with hubby and give them a kiss. Sorry, I take from a major part of the population. I use to be bad and went to all the sex cruising spots in expensive communites and poor communities and neither ones behavior was different. SO MANY of the hundreds I had sex with said they were in a relationship. And if you look at all these guys in love for a long time and not living up to this stereotype you will find they are in late stages of their life. SHOW ME ONE committed and monogomous relationship that has lasted 30 years. I can show you hundreds of thousands in the straight community although I won't take the time to do it because I think if you look at your conscience you would know.
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:10 AM GMT
    Jerred saidSweettooth... TOO FUNNY. I hung out at all the gay scenes for years and have been around THOUSANDS just here in Southern California. To walk into famous gay bars every day of the week and see couples flirting with other couples was no small thing. I never even see that walking into a straight bar or club. Take a good look at this website... I've only seen three married couples or committed relationships and yet I see many profiles in which they are suppose to be in a relationship yet they do nothing but sexually flirt with others. Not my imagination at this point. Hell, there was suppose to be a very respectable gay resteraunt here for years and sometimes I would walk into the restroom and see a gay giving another guy a blowjob in the restroom then come out and sit at their table again with hubby and give them a kiss. Sorry, I take from a major part of the population. I use to be bad and went to all the sex cruising spots in expensive communites and poor communities and neither ones behavior was different. SO MANY of the hundreds I had sex with said they were in a relationship. And if you look at all these guys in love for a long time and not living up to this stereotype you will find they are in late stages of their life. SHOW ME ONE committed and monogomous relationship that has lasted 30 years. I can show you hundreds of thousands in the straight community although I won't take the time to do it because I think if you look at your conscience you would know.


    There are also those like me whom the other sluts call the church ladies, or whatever. There is always balance icon_smile.gif
    Plus a lot of the committal gays do not go to gay bars, or cruise.
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:18 AM GMT
    LEANDRO_NJ saidMy sweet sweet long time friend don't let someone's opinion of your love life, whether they told you drunk or sober, affect how you live it! besides those kind of people are usually bittered, jaded, and filled with hatred AND envy. Why in the world an opinion from someone like that would matter, much less let it bother you!? that kind of element is not worth yours or anyones' time!

    I agree, dear Leandro. He could not diminish the love I have for my husband. Nor made me believe it's gonna fade, as he predicted.

    His own unhappy love life is not ours. His assertion is why I stupidly rose to the bait.

    But I shouldn't have. Because he was drunk. And you never debate a drunk guy. In that respect, the mistake was mine. Because I was sober, and should have known better. A rule for us all, perhaps.
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:22 AM GMT
    Sweetooth, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But for you and everyone, this is a really good article that describes not only why we don't have statistics but why it is hard for us to get statistics. Very interesting. I agree with what they are saying. Gay population is so small and so is the time that same sex marriages have been legalized in some states. But they also say that the statistics some states that are now legal gay marriage states and are trying to present IMPROVED marriage statistics are not legit because they have not actually done a TRUE study of gay men and heterosexual. Just an interesting link:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/sam-sex-divorce-stats-lag-1238/
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:42 AM GMT
    Jerred said
    I will not judge your relationship personally but I will point out what I see happening everywhere.

    Perhaps you know the fable of the 3 blind men exploring an elephant for the first time. And how they each imagined a different thing.

    Here's gay marriage as I imagine it. Almost all of our gay friends have been partnered for close to, or well over 20 years. We're the new kids at only 7. And only because our previous husbands died of AIDS, and we each had to start all over again.

    There's an RJ couple here who have been together for over 40 years. We've been to their house, had dinner with them. I've golfed with one of them, who got me started in the game.

    Guys ride in our Pride Parades with banners because they've been together for 50 and 60 years. It's not as rare as you seem to think, nor impossible. Many just not so visible until recently.

    But yeah, guys fuck around. MEN fuck around, gay or straight.

    But when a guy settles down with someone, on the terms they establish, they can be together for a very long time. All their lives. And you really need to recognize that. I'll be with my own guy until... well, I don't wanna think about that day. Both of us have been through that before.

    But it certainly won't be by choice, as you propose. "Till death do us part" is our intention, although we haven't been able to legalize those words in this Red Republican State of Florida. icon_sad.gif
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:50 AM GMT
    Art Deco, I do not propose this particular situation in terms of choice. I am not at all saying two men can't fall in love. Hell, straight men fall in love with straight men all the time. I was taught that by a straight councilor over twenty years ago. But this gay thing is actually pretty newly accepted and I do believe a transition needs to be enforced by guys like you to TEACH these kids things so they don't have to wait their whole lives to find what you found. Still, I do believe what you have found is extremely rare from what I have seen. Actually I was wrong about the Lesbian community as there was a study that showed Lesbians in other countries have more divorces than Homosexuals. So I will admit I don't always know. But I am just going on what I have witnessed here in Southern California all my life.
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:58 AM GMT
    Jerred said
    But I am just going on what I have witnessed here in Southern California all my life.

    As I said, perceiving the "elephant" is based on where you touch it.

    If we went by Southern California, all US female teenagers would be air-head Valley Girls.

    Perhaps you need to expand your gay experiences beyond Southern California.
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    Sep 24, 2014 5:01 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Jerred said
    But I am just going on what I have witnessed here in Southern California all my life.

    As I said, perceiving the "elephant" is based on where you touch it.

    If we went by Southern California, all US female teenagers would be air-head Valley Girls.

    Perhaps you need to expand your gay experiences beyond Southern California.


    LOL, tempting but I will never leave Southern California. Too many precious memories everywhere I go. I've only been to Arizona once, Nevada four times, and Washington State once. Other than that I love this place too much. I am afraid to ever travel out of this State. Yes, I guess that part of me can be considered living a sheltered life. LOL
  • ASHDOD

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    Sep 24, 2014 12:50 PM GMT
    somtimes harsh things have to be said, and if you dont say it ,you will regret you didnt.
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    Sep 24, 2014 1:08 PM GMT
    "In vino veritas," though! This time the truth wasn't entirely in what was being said, but a revelation about who was saying it.
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    Sep 24, 2014 1:23 PM GMT
    This is not a comment on anybody here or their friends, but my instinct when I finally settled in with someone was to leave the "scene" behind, for pretty much the reasons both Art and Jerred are describing. It's a #$@( minefield.

    I have been with my dude 11 years next month. He has been in a gay bar twice in his life and has no interest in going back. I did my stint in the bars when I was a kid, but I recognize the kind of toxic behavior you are both talking about... there are inherently unhappy people who have no issue with home-wrecking for sport and other such BS.

    We really only hang out with one other gay male couple on the reg... I have a few other guys I still keep in touch with from years ago, but the rest of our friends are mostly straight people with families, and a few female couples.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:27 PM GMT
    Like another person said here, I believe that you were right to speak up. You may be familiar with the saying "drunk words are sober thoughts". In other words, even though this guy was drunk, this is telling of what he really thinks and how he thinks of you. That isn't to say that people don't say stupid things when they're drunk. He may be pessimistic about gay love, but he was in no place to act as if he could comment on your situation and invalidate the love you two have.

    In fact, maybe you should have been less diplomatic from the start. I think if you would have made it clear that he was speaking out of line, you could have gotten your point across before that last comment slipped and made him upset.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:34 PM GMT
    ShiftyJK08 saidThis is not a comment on anybody here or their friends, but my instinct when I finally settled in with someone was to leave the "scene" behind, for pretty much the reasons both Art and Jerred are describing. It's a #$@( minefield.


    I befriended a former RJ member last year and saw how his association with the scene worsened his depression. It's a toxic environment. Less so for the younger generation, but quite a bit for the older LGBT people.

    Of course, not everyone lives in a welcoming environment outside of their LGBT communities, so in some cases it's the lesser of two evils.
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    Sep 24, 2014 3:41 PM GMT
    There's nothing like an incoherent drunk guy being presented with an undeniable Moment of Clarity.

    Art_DecoI said: "Well, you've already told us - nobody in the gay world will love you."


    You essentially took all the self-hating cabbage he was tossing around and presented the bitter slaw back to him on a plate. And he couldn't stand how it tasted.

    When Mister Wet Blanket sobers up, don't be surprised if he comes around to thank you. You did him, and everyone around him, a public service.
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    Sep 24, 2014 4:06 PM GMT
    lol it would've been much easier to shrug and walk away.
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    Sep 24, 2014 5:17 PM GMT
    You did nothing wrong. It seems you were very patient and gracious until you delivered the coup de grace! Touche! I love it. He deserved it.

    As an aside: I hope no one let him drive!
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    Sep 24, 2014 5:46 PM GMT
    I don't understand why YOU are in the doghouse. You showed integrity by standing for your feelings and also honoring the relationship you have with your man.