Germany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt. Americans can now get free education in Germany

  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Oct 03, 2014 7:21 PM GMT
    Germany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/03/1334013/-Germany-just-eliminated-tuition-while-Americans-are-drowning-in-1-2-trillion-student-loan-debt
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    Oct 05, 2014 4:45 PM GMT
    metta8 saidGermany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/03/1334013/-Germany-just-eliminated-tuition-while-Americans-are-drowning-in-1-2-trillion-student-loan-debt


    Consider that those Germans who proceed to university are MUCH better prepared for it than most Americans are, and approach it MUCH more seriously, and this starts to make sense. A university education as a "human right?" Nein danke! We've enough handouts in the US; we don't need any more, even if we are "a neo-feudal state." The rhetoric of this piece would be right at home in a Stalinist tract from the '30s. Perhaps we should mark it as Exhibit A in the show trials to come.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Oct 05, 2014 6:14 PM GMT
    Just think of how much trouble 90% of our politicians would be in if we had an educated electorate!
  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Oct 05, 2014 9:11 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    metta8 saidGermany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/03/1334013/-Germany-just-eliminated-tuition-while-Americans-are-drowning-in-1-2-trillion-student-loan-debt


    Consider that those Germans who proceed to university are MUCH better prepared for it than most Americans are, and approach it MUCH more seriously, and this starts to make sense. A university education as a "human right?" Nein danke! We've enough handouts in the US; we don't need any more, even if we are "a neo-feudal state." The rhetoric of this piece would be right at home in a Stalinist tract from the '30s. Perhaps we should mark it as Exhibit A in the show trials to come.


    I actually would not make this a priority over healthcare. Germany is way ahead of us as a society. Basic healthcare as well as making sure that people have food to eat should always come first. I do not favor the government paying over $250k so someone can go to an expensive private school to get a 4 year degree. Improving transportation and infrastructure would come before that as well. I do support making higher education (not necessarily private education) available and affordable to everyone.
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    Oct 05, 2014 9:18 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    metta8 saidGermany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/03/1334013/-Germany-just-eliminated-tuition-while-Americans-are-drowning-in-1-2-trillion-student-loan-debt


    Consider that those Germans who proceed to university are MUCH better prepared for it than most Americans are, and approach it MUCH more seriously, and this starts to make sense. A university education as a "human right?" Nein danke! We've enough handouts in the US; we don't need any more, even if we are "a neo-feudal state." The rhetoric of this piece would be right at home in a Stalinist tract from the '30s. Perhaps we should mark it as Exhibit A in the show trials to come.


    Back in, what, 1992, one of the managing directors at the company I worked said tuition at the City University of New York was practically free.

    So, your point is, what?

    You're happy to let Germany have educated adults while we're financially imprisoned by tuition and the cost of rent.

    I think the free people will have a higher quality of life than us, United States citizens.

    Take a look at the personal wealth in Republican Texas. Here, we have low credit scores and the majority of people have less than $1,000 in their retirement accounts. ... The quality of life just gets worse as the population ages.

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    Oct 05, 2014 9:27 PM GMT
    I think the trillion dollar student loan debt does not include however much the costs of textbooks went on credit card accounts

    The article opens:

    Germany has just joined other nations of the Continental European Union to eliminate all university tuition, as a human right. This comes in addition to the fact that all countries in the European Union as a human right have some type of medical access for all of its citizens,

    yet on these benchmarks the neo feudalist United States continues to lag far behind in creating a separate and unequal state mired in a wage slave economy emanating out of a history of chattel slavery of which the $1.2 trillion dollar student loan debt slavery economy has become an intricate mechanism to keep the American working class impoverished in neo feudalist America,

    along with the concurrent effects of medical bankruptcy, (which accounts for most bankruptcies) and

    underwater mortgages in which there is no bailout in sight in an economy and state where only Wall Street banksters received bailouts, because as they own almost everything in the economy they are considered to be too big to fail by the best government money could buy through the power of its K Street lobbyists.
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    Oct 05, 2014 9:28 PM GMT
    Thank you metta8.
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    Oct 05, 2014 9:44 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    MGINSD said
    metta8 saidGermany just eliminated tuition, while Americans are drowning in $1.2 trillion student loan debt.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/03/1334013/-Germany-just-eliminated-tuition-while-Americans-are-drowning-in-1-2-trillion-student-loan-debt


    Consider that those Germans who proceed to university are MUCH better prepared for it than most Americans are, and approach it MUCH more seriously, and this starts to make sense. A university education as a "human right?" Nein danke! We've enough handouts in the US; we don't need any more, even if we are "a neo-feudal state." The rhetoric of this piece would be right at home in a Stalinist tract from the '30s. Perhaps we should mark it as Exhibit A in the show trials to come.


    Back in, what, 1992, one of the managing directors at the company I worked said tuition at the City University of New York was practically free.

    So, your point is, what?

    You're happy to let Germany have educated adults while we're financially imprisoned by tuition and the cost of rent.

    I think the free people will have a higher quality of life than us, United States citizens.

    Take a look at the personal wealth in Republican Texas. Here, we have low credit scores and the majority of people have less than $1,000 in their retirement accounts. ... The quality of life just gets worse as the population ages.



    That was in, what, 1992, look at CUNY tuition and fees now:

    http://www.cuny.edu/admissions/tuition-fees.html

    My point is that higher education is NOT a "human right" - what isn't under the permissive left's views? - but a privilege that people of intelligence and personal drive may choose to pursue if they are qualified. If the government, a/o private entities a/o individuals, wants to award merit-based scholarships - and I mean SOLELY-merit based - fine, but that's their choice, too. Anyone who's ever gone to college, from the easiest 2-year local community college to the world's most prestigious research university, knows that there are people there, many receiving financial aid of some kind, who do not deserve to be there and shouldn't be there. Not everyone is qualified for higher education and not everyone should be provided it, especially at the taxpayers' expense.
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    Oct 06, 2014 1:35 AM GMT
    " there are people there, many receiving financial aid of some kind, who do not deserve to be there and shouldn't be there "


    What an odd worldview you have!

    Pay Attention. You'll find that the students who are most disengaged and feel "entitled" are paying full fare. Mom&Dad are getting a raw deal, not the tax payer.

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    Oct 06, 2014 3:57 AM GMT
    MGINSD

    That was in, what, 1992...

    StephenOABC

    Correction

    The managing director graduated from CUNY probably in 1984.

    The point that was being made is that the generation of my managing director had it better with respect to the cost of education compared to CUNY students 10 years later. The higher cost acted as a setback. Comparing the two generations, the older generation could go into car ownership, home ownership, graduate school, cost of first child with less setback than the generation just 10 years later.


    MGINSD

    My point is that higher education is NOT a "human right" -


    StephenOABC

    It is not a human right in a society with degenerating quality of life for the 99%. Thank God somebody's government is raising the bar on human rights. Oh, and it's not "the richest country in the world [USA]."


    MGINSD
    what isn't under the permissive left's views? - but a privilege that people of intelligence and personal drive may choose to pursue if they are qualified.


    StephenOABC

    Try applying that to pre-K.

    It's the same thing. Germany is simply saying in global civilization with its global competitiveness, it's a human right to keep pace with education demands in all fields. Quality of life for the 99% will be better for it. German business will be better for it. Tax revenues from globally competitive companies staffed by well-educated pools of employees helps government.

    MGINSD

    If the government, a/o private entities a/o individuals, wants to award merit-based scholarships - and I mean SOLELY-merit based - fine, but that's their choice, too.


    Stephen

    No, that's that artificial bell curve baloney. In my professional association, whoever passes the test on the Project Management Book of Knowledge, gets the credential. There's no artificial hurdles.


    There's supposed to be no child left behind. Apparently in Germany, no citizen there is getting left behind.

    So, your proposal has all that administrative cost of applications for scholarships while Germany has a learning society. Don't stop at high school. You could learn from age 14 - 18. Well, you can continue to learn 18 - 22--thus cutting down on the part-time track to a college degree--people who have to work and go to school.

    You have disincentives for kids to not go to college: work one or two jobs and go to college.

    MGINSD:

    Anyone who's ever gone to college, from the easiest 2-year local community college to the world's most prestigious research university, knows that there are people there, many receiving financial aid of some kind, who do not deserve to be there and shouldn't be there. Not everyone is qualified for higher education and not everyone should be provided it, especially at the taxpayers' expense.

    Stephen:

    So you want to discourage people. Meanwhile, other countries are surpassing your country. Where you do not see human potential, they do.

    It's kind of like the movie 9-1/2 Weeks where the 1% guy makes his girlfriend crawl across the floor for financial quality of life.

    No, I do not need to prove to you my qualifications for advancement in all these degrading ways in which you like to see people grovel.
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    Oct 06, 2014 4:07 AM GMT

    Same thing with my former industry where there was the Certified Financial Planner; and, passing the Series 7 and 63. But there, you had the snooty choosers saying we're going to warehouse the sponsorship for Series 7 and 63 for those we deem worthy. Are you heterosexual? You're in. Is your wife pregnant? You're in. Do you have a ring on your finger? You're in. Did you go to a top 20 business school? You're in.

    Yea, we know you went to less than a top 20 business school, you have the aptitude, but we want our employees to have bios that give our customers the image that we're brighter than our competitors. Resign from the firm and go to a lower-tier firm. They'll sponsor you.

    So, you're not fooling people with talk of people not being bright enough and don't deserve to have further education.
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    Oct 06, 2014 4:13 AM GMT
    http://www.thomhartmann.com/solr/Germany


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    Why is Germany thriving while America flounders?

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    Oct 06, 2014 4:15 AM GMT
    MGINSD, why is Germany thriving while the US flounders?

    Did they play games with mortgages creating setbacks for people's lives? Was tuition sky-high, creating setbacks for people's lives?
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    Oct 06, 2014 7:07 AM GMT
    Germany has been under constant criticism by the OECD for years, because there wouldn't be enough graduates. Which is because in Germany we have a profession system that bases on apprenticeships for about three years with on the job training and school. But that wasn't accepted by the OECD as higher level education. Colleges and Universities actually were only for people going into Science and Development. But now they created a lot more ways to study to get their numbers right, so the OECD will accept it. Tuition would have stood in the way of that.

    And about the question why Germany was thriving, which is easily answered. Germany isn't thriving.
    It's a federal state consisting of 16 lands. During the last decades the tax system has shifted, so that taxes almost only go to the Federation, but not the lands. The lands took the money they need from the cities and communities. A growing number of towns in Germany are going bank rupt these days, even in economically thriving areas like around Frankfurt. But on the outside it looks like the state had a lot more money than before.
    So what we actually do is faking our books.
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    Oct 06, 2014 2:50 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidMGINSD, why is Germany thriving while the US flounders?

    Did they play games with mortgages creating setbacks for people's lives? Was tuition sky-high, creating setbacks for people's lives?


    Did they demand that banks issue loans to unqualified people and threaten them w/ discrimination suits if they didn't is the better question. Yes, tuition is high in the US, but you can thank the education bureaucracy - the numerous administrators, "counselors," compliance managers, and the rest of the retainers that add to the cost of education - as well as tenured professors who know not what they profess for a lot of that expense.
    That Stalinist tract apparently made quite an impression on you, quoting from its most vile language as you did. Nobody asked you to prove your "qualifications for advancement," and, I hardly want to discourage people, let alone make them "grovel." But, merit-based qualifications are the only valid ones, and are what this country's all about, the best efforts of affirmative action advocates and other latter-day levelers to denigrate them notwithstanding.
  • Sincityfan

    Posts: 409

    Oct 06, 2014 11:33 PM GMT
    tazzari saidJust think of how much trouble 90% of our politicians would be in if we had an educated electorate!

    German elections are also only held on Sundays or Holidays rather than on Tuesdays....
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    Oct 07, 2014 1:01 AM GMT
    Stephen

    MGINSD, why is Germany thriving while the US flounders?
    You didn't answer the question.

    Did they (Germany) play games with mortgages creating setbacks for people's lives?


    MGINSD

    Did they (Germany) demand that banks issue loans to unqualified people and threaten them w/ discrimination suits if they didn't is the better question.

    Stephen

    Under the Bush administration. I remember the spin: we just want the American Dream in reach of all people. Baloney.

    Where is the good government. This is corruption of business. Nobody went to jail for corrupting lenders to extend these loans? And I do not wonder why the U.S. cannot raise the standards of human rights. After you learn how to manage a bank, someone comes along and makes you do something that doesn't make business sense and later created a financial crisis.


    MGINSD

    That Stalinist tract apparently made quite an impression on you, quoting from its most vile language as you did.


    Stephen

    Name-calling "Stalinist tract" is not the point. The constructive criticisms are the points.
  • C_Dezi

    Posts: 134

    Oct 07, 2014 1:34 AM GMT
    i think it's definitely realistic to compare our financial process to those of education in germany or brazil, or the healthcare of australia or canada, especially considering that there are about 12 people living in all of those countries. go immigrate if you don't like it, otherwise shut the fuck up.
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    Oct 07, 2014 5:06 AM GMT
    Lol, because I'm a man who appreciates excellence, not matter where it appears or manifests itself and because I have a little knowledge having read the history of the German people, and I'm having a mental block right now on the name of their ancient ancestors, oh I've got it, "Bavarian" there it is, that's where the German folk descended from, I can believe about them that they are eliminating tuition. The German people are an "excellent" people whenever they apply themselves to anything that they do. They are just like my very ancient ancestors the "Kemets" who laid the foundations for all of human culture. The Kemitic people lived by one principle: be excellent in whatever you do. If you make wooden shoes then be the most excellent at making wooden shoes. The Germans understand that if a school gives out degrees but their graduates are so steeped in debt and poverty that they can never climb above their debt, then the value of that schools education becomes worthless over time. So, I'm gonna give the Germans their props, once again, in the history of human beings. The Americans are greedy and do not see the long run consequences of their greed and getting their non-German students in deep debt for their education it seems. But I could be wrong and may be missing some brilliant calculation on the part of Americans that the Germans have not calculated.
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    Oct 07, 2014 8:13 AM GMT
    declansloan said[...] oh I've got it, "Bavarian" there it is, that's where the German folk descended from, [...]


    Uhm, no. Bavarians were just one of the tribes that formed after the Germanic people came there.
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    Oct 09, 2014 1:24 AM GMT
    C_Dezi saidi think it's definitely realistic to compare our financial process to those of education in germany or brazil, or the healthcare of australia or canada, especially considering that there are about 12 people living in all of those countries. go immigrate if you don't like it, otherwise shut the fuck up.


    Perhaps 12 people are blocking your profile and ignoring all your posts going forward because being impolite was un-called for.

    All your rudeness and cussing does not put a 4-year college education in reach of U.S. citizens who would rather not graduate with $40,000+ debt when they leave college or after obtaining a professional degree.
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    Oct 09, 2014 1:27 AM GMT
    declansloan saidLol, because I'm a man who appreciates excellence, not matter where it appears or manifests itself and because I have a little knowledge having read the history of the German people, and I'm having a mental block right now on the name of their ancient ancestors, oh I've got it, "Bavarian" there it is, that's where the German folk descended from, I can believe about them that they are eliminating tuition. The German people are an "excellent" people whenever they apply themselves to anything that they do. They are just like my very ancient ancestors the "Kemets" who laid the foundations for all of human culture. The Kemitic people lived by one principle: be excellent in whatever you do. If you make wooden shoes then be the most excellent at making wooden shoes. The Germans understand that if a school gives out degrees but their graduates are so steeped in debt and poverty that they can never climb above their debt, then the value of that schools education becomes worthless over time. So, I'm gonna give the Germans their props, once again, in the history of human beings. The Americans are greedy and do not see the long run consequences of their greed and getting their non-German students in deep debt for their education it seems. But I could be wrong and may be missing some brilliant calculation on the part of Americans that the Germans have not calculated.


    Thank you.

  • C_Dezi

    Posts: 134

    Oct 09, 2014 2:42 AM GMT
    maybe you would prefer getting paid the measly salary cap someone in another country is slapped with when they finish their shitty free degree
  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Oct 10, 2014 4:35 PM GMT
    Wow....Americans can get a free education in Germany now


    Germany offers free college tuition to U.S. and international students




    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/10/1335669/-Germany-offers-free-college-tuition-to-U-S-and-international-students