Why Is The Catholic Church Obsessed With Gays?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 05, 2014 9:25 PM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-the-churchs-gay-obsession.html?action=click&contentCollection=Movies&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&region=Mar


    Frank Bruni gets this right:

    "REPEATEDLY over the last year and a half, I’ve written about teachers in Catholic schools and leaders in Catholic parishes who were dismissed from their posts because they were in same-sex relationships and — in many cases — had decided to marry.

    Every time, more than a few readers weighed in to tell me that these people had it coming. If you join a club, they argued, you play by its rules or you suffer the consequences.

    Oh really?

    The rules of this particular club prohibit divorce, yet the pews of many of the Catholic churches I’ve visited are populous with worshipers on their second and even third marriages. They walk merrily to the altar to receive communion, not a peep of protest from a soul around them. They participate fully in the rituals of the church, their membership in the club uncontested."
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    Oct 05, 2014 10:06 PM GMT
    Determinate saidhttp://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-the-churchs-gay-obsession.html?action=click&contentCollection=Movies&module=MostEmailed&version=Full®ion=Mar


    Frank Bruni gets this right:

    "REPEATEDLY over the last year and a half, I’ve written about teachers in Catholic schools and leaders in Catholic parishes who were dismissed from their posts because they were in same-sex relationships and — in many cases — had decided to marry.

    Every time, more than a few readers weighed in to tell me that these people had it coming. If you join a club, they argued, you play by its rules or you suffer the consequences.

    Oh really?

    The rules of this particular club prohibit divorce, yet the pews of many of the Catholic churches I’ve visited are populous with worshipers on their second and even third marriages. They walk merrily to the altar to receive communion, not a peep of protest from a soul around them. They participate fully in the rituals of the church, their membership in the club uncontested."

    Lovely point. I suspect (but I have no evidence) that the reason the Catholic Church is so homophobic is for the same reason the US Republican Party is so homophobic: many of its members are closeted gays.

    And as we've learned before, the most vicious homophobes are closeted, repressed gays. My experience has been that most straights (though not all) aren't that consumed with anti-gay passion. They'll vote against gay issues when they appear on the ballot, but beyond that, they're kinda non-committal, and not obsessed with this issue.

    The Catholic Church's celibacy rule creates a male situational homosexuality condition, similar to prison, navy service, and other male-only environments. And from that sexual frustration comes this gay hatred, even while Catholic priests are abusing altar boys, and the Church hierarchy is covering it up. And that fact is documented, for which the Church in the US has paid billions in penalties.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Oct 05, 2014 10:53 PM GMT
    Why? Gerontocracy reinforced by celibacy amplified by being centered in a Latin culture; then add in the largest closet in the world and the concurrent urge for institutional protection....

    Add a dash or two of ignorance of the fundamentalist variety, and voila!
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    Oct 06, 2014 2:27 AM GMT
    Because they don't want the choir boys growing up comfortable with their sexuality and outing the priests who molested them.
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    Oct 06, 2014 2:34 AM GMT
    They are horny men too, enough said icon_rolleyes.gif


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7nIdIe2Gfm_wfUhApoPL
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    Oct 06, 2014 11:11 AM GMT
    the NYT article left me wondering; aside from a slight few most any religion hates gays. Its not only a catholic thing.
    and
    Catholics should not confuse (and we should not either) a pedophile some one who wants a date with a consenting adult.
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    Oct 06, 2014 11:45 AM GMT
    pellaz saidthe NYT article left me wondering; aside from a slight few most any religion hates gays. Its not only a catholic thing.
    and
    Catholics should not confuse (and we should not either) a pedophile some one who wants a date with a consenting adult.

    By most, you meant Abrahamic religions.
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    Oct 06, 2014 12:03 PM GMT
    morphic said
    pellaz saidthe NYT article left me wondering; aside from a slight few most any religion hates gays. Its not only a catholic thing.
    and
    Catholics should not confuse (and we should not either) a pedophile some one who wants a date with a consenting adult.

    By most, you meant Abrahamic religions.


    No, not Catholicism. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    CCC #2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.

    NO Catholic that I know hates any gay, quite the contrary, though I'm sure there are a few. And I know many Catholics, many who are gay or who have gay children, and believe it or not, many men and women who are living happy and fulfilled lives without the challenges of gay sex. Sexual activity is not necessary to be happy or fulfilled as a human being.



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    Oct 06, 2014 12:38 PM GMT
    pecmansd said
    morphic said
    pellaz saidthe NYT article left me wondering; aside from a slight few most any religion hates gays. Its not only a catholic thing.
    and
    Catholics should not confuse (and we should not either) a pedophile some one who wants a date with a consenting adult.

    By most, you meant Abrahamic religions.


    No, not Catholicism. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    CCC #2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.

    NO Catholic that I know hates any gay, quite the contrary, though I'm sure there are a few. And I know many Catholics, many who are gay or who have gay children, and believe it or not, many men and women who are living happy and fulfilled lives without the challenges of gay sex. Sexual activity is not necessary to be happy or fulfilled as a human being.


    I guess we live in a completely different world then.
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    Oct 06, 2014 1:38 PM GMT
    pecmansd said... Sexual activity is not necessary to be happy or fulfilled as a human being...


    sounds like your desperate to prove your point.
  • michaelctn

    Posts: 21

    Oct 06, 2014 1:47 PM GMT
    I was born GAY, the Roman Catholic clergy had to learn about their religion, taught to them by other humans and so the chain goes back. Old ideas are stuck because the church structure is very rigid. Sexual urges are very powerful. If a man with a healthy body produces lots of testosterone, just how could he possibly control it? They are not allowed to masturbate because that is destroying a potential new life. Condoms are forbidden for the same reason. What about HIV and AIDS - premarital sex is also forbidden. Wet dreams? that is also forbidden because maybe a boy or a man had "dirty" thoughts. There seems to be no way out. "Love your neighbour like yourself" had no restrictions - so whoever one loves should be just perfect. It would take just one person in the church to change things to normality. Let us hope that would come soon.
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    Oct 06, 2014 2:07 PM GMT
    43rueperronet said
    Art_Deco said

    And as we've learned before, the most vicious homophobes are closeted, repressed gays. My experience has been that most straights (though not all) aren't that consumed with anti-gay passion. They'll vote against gay issues when they appear on the ballot, but beyond that, they're kinda non-committal, and not obsessed with this issue.

    You hid in the closet for 46 years, were you also a vicious homophobe? That would explain you. Can only imagine how anti-gay you were as a Colonel in the army---

    Closeted for 46 years? I came out at age 45. I must have been closeted in the womb. icon_rolleyes.gif

    But the fact is I was never closeted, rather in denial that I was gay, didn't realize it. And as an Army Officer I was very gay friendly.

    When I attended college as an Officer I befriended a gay college professor, we hung out all the time, the only gay person I had ever known. A total flamer, but a superb educator & academic. 20 years later he was the very first person I phoned with the news that I had come out (we lived on opposite US coasts at that time).

    As a Lt. Colonel, I had a Staff Sergeant E-6 in my office who was clearly gay, we all knew it. And we all ignored the fact, including myself, when we could have had him dishonorably discharged. He was too good a soldier in the things that mattered to us. That's how most of us behaved, it was mainly those with hard-core religious prejudices that used military regulations to make an issue of someone being gay.

    On the contrary, when he first became eligible for promotion to Sergeant First Class E-7, a big step, I used all my influence with the centralized promotion system to have him accelerated. At that time it typically was taking about 2 years from when an E-6 first entered the promotion "window" to go to E-7, if he/she made it at all (some never did), because of competitive numbers. It's a standard career pyramid, smaller at the top.

    He got his promotion, being advanced over countless others on the list ahead of him, shocking his fellow NCOs. So again you're wrong, and merely hallucinating about my Army behavior regarding gays. You just invent this stuff out of thin air. icon_razz.gif
  • NealJohn

    Posts: 187

    Oct 06, 2014 3:31 PM GMT
    Because the Catholic Church isn't an accurate representation of God or even the Christian faith. They do what they do for money and nothing else. Truth be told Jesus said not to throw stones and anybody.
  • njrealguy

    Posts: 13

    Oct 06, 2014 4:25 PM GMT
    Because the Church is hypocritical when it comes to the LGBT community. The Hetero community gets a pass when they have sex out of wedlock, or live together before marriage, or divorce and remarry. Furthermore, there are many gay priests out there with bf's and the church turns the other way. As a catholic and very involved in my church I just don't listen to them anymore and I keep my faith between myself and god. What happens with the church here on earth is irrelveant.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Oct 06, 2014 5:44 PM GMT
    Not all Catholic churches are obsessed with gays. Of course we know that the Roman Church is, and a few others too, including the Russian Orthodox Church, but the Episcopal Church, which is also Catholic, is not obsessed with gays.
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    Oct 06, 2014 5:59 PM GMT
    Why are gays so obsessed with what the Catholic Church, or with what anyone else,thinks about them?
  • FRE0

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    Oct 06, 2014 6:00 PM GMT
    NealJohn saidBecause the Catholic Church isn't an accurate representation of God or even the Christian faith. They do what they do for money and nothing else. Truth be told Jesus said not to throw stones and anybody.


    Actually, I think that they are more interested in power than money.
  • FRE0

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    Oct 06, 2014 6:07 PM GMT
    Barook saidWhy are gays so obsessed with what the Catholic Church, or with what anyone else,thinks about them?


    I assume that you mean the Roman Church.

    It is because the Roman Church, as well as some other Catholic Churches and non-Catholic churches as well, influences public attitudes in ways that cause problems for us. They even influence legislation. Actually, we are not obsessed with what those churches think. Rather, we objectively understand that what they think, combined with their influence, has a strong negative effect on us. It causes all too many young gay persons to be thrown out of their homes, commit suicide, and suffer in other ways also.

    It would be irrational for us not to be concerned with what any influential groups think, including churches.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Oct 06, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
    I get OPs point, but as a matter of clarification, the Catholic does NOT allow a person who is divorced to receive communion. This is a huge issue for Pope Francis who has indicated he is going to overturn that (ridiculous) ban.

    For what it's worth, no Catholic on their "second" or "third" marriage had a divorce. You could not be remarried if you had a divorce. You get an annulment, which is different from a Catholic legal perspective. I admit it's a cheap excuse, but it's a valid excuse nonetheless according to their rule book.

    And even though the Catholic Church teaches against homosexual practices (which I believe is wrong, and which I want to change and which will likely change in the decades to come), the church READILY REALIZES that ALL men are sinners, and therefore being an openly gay couple in a Catholic Church is no more a sin than committing adultery, cheating on your taxes, or any other "sin" people do all the time. I suppose the only distinction is that, if you feel homosexual acts are a grave sin then you'd need to confess that each time BEFORE receiving Holy Communion. But according to the Catechism, you must first and foremost follow your "conscience," and as such, if you do not think it is a sin, then it is not a CULPABLE SIN, and you are in a state of grace and can receive communion without confessing homosexual sex.

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    Oct 06, 2014 6:39 PM GMT
    The real question is why are so many gays who are dead against what the Church teaches on more than one issue so eager to belong to it or work for it.I am a Catholic.I do not expect the Catholic Church to change its teachings and it never will.Note to the leftist Catholic gays.Go to the Episcopal Church down the block.They might not have real sacraments but honey they got plenty of activities for the gay boys and girls.icon_smile.gif
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    Oct 06, 2014 6:42 PM GMT
    It's "LOOK! Over There!" Syndrome. Keeps their followers from focusing on what's going on behind the robes.
  • Svnw688

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    Oct 06, 2014 7:31 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidThe real question is why are so many gays who are dead against what the Church teaches on more than one issue so eager to belong to it or work for it.I am a Catholic.I do not expect the Catholic Church to change its teachings and it never will.Note to the leftist Catholic gays.Go to the Episcopal Church down the block.They might not have real sacraments but honey they got plenty of activities for the gay boys and girls.icon_smile.gif


    Hmm, hardliners said the same thing and then VATICAN II flipped the script. Pope Francis is uber-liberal by Catholic standards. I wouldn't call major change likely any time soon, but I don't think it's as black-and-white as you're portraying.

    And if I'm going to the trouble of taking my religious faith and salvation seriously, I'll certainly not be doing "Catholic-light," regardless of their contemporary stance on LGBT rights. All that matters to most Catholics is the Sacred Mass and the Consecrated Host. Everything else is window dressing. I'll stick with my Cathedral.
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    Oct 06, 2014 7:44 PM GMT
    Determinate said...

    The rules of this particular club prohibit divorce, yet the pews of many of the Catholic churches I’ve visited are populous with worshipers on their second and even third marriages. They walk merrily to the altar to receive communion, not a peep of protest from a soul around them. They participate fully in the rituals of the church, their membership in the club uncontested."


    For the Church there are two marriages: a civil - governed by the laws of the civil authorities and an ecclesiastical - governed by the laws of the Church. So while a Catholic couple married in the Church may receive a civil divorce they are still married in the eyes of the Church unless they receive an annulment. An annulment is a determination made by Church authorities that there was an impediment at the time of the marriage that prevented the marriage from being a lawful one; for example, one party withholds knowledge of sterility or is already married to another. These would be grounds for an annulment.

    Any divorced Catholic couple who remarries is prohibited from receiving Holy Communion. This is not a rule for just divorced couple as ANYONE receiving Holy Communion must do so in a state of grace (not in a state of mortal sin). So if you have broken any of the commandments and have not confessed your sins and received absolution for your mortal sins you commit a sacrilege in receiving Holy Communion, which by the way is a mortal sin in and of itself. Any divorced Catholic who remains unmarried and is in a state of grace may receive Holy Communion.

    So as the lines for the Sacrament of Reconciliation get shorter and the lines for the Blessed Sacrament get longer there are many Catholics committing grave sacrilege and in the eyes of Church teaching are imperiling their immortal souls.

    That all said no one in the pew is to judge anyone who presents themselves to receive Holy Communion - not even the Eucharistic minister or priest for that matter as it is a matter of conscience for the individual. NONE OF US is qualified to judge someone's relationship to god. It is a matter between themselves and god.

    So while it isn't the pope's place to judge it is his place/responsibility (and every bishop and priest and knowledgeable Catholics responsibility) to teach Church teaching. Now, if you cannot accept the teaching you run along and find a Church that will tickle your ears with teachings that suit your purpose. Or start you own as Henry VIII did.

    I was raised in a strict Catholic home. Sunday mass every Sunday unless you were at death's door, all Holy Days of Obligation, fasting, prayer, rosary, no meat Fridays, altar boy, choir member, catechist, eventually Latin mass. When I decided I was going to live my life authentically as the man god made me to be I had to leave the Church (club) as I didn't want to, in good conscience, play by its rules.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 06, 2014 8:48 PM GMT
    My only experience with the catholic church and this topic came up when I was hit on by a priest and he strongly encouraged me (off and on for about 6 months) to let him do me... even in his parsonage with his staff working outside.

    When I pressed him about his work and the focus of the church on people with "our sexuality", his comment was,
    "it will change eventually, but in the mean time, lets have fun".

    We never did, however...lol

    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 06, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidBecause they don't want the choir boys growing up comfortable with their sexuality and outing the priests who molested them.


    Lol that reminded me of the South Park episode Red hot Catholic Love. LOL