Progress in the Catholic Church!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 13, 2014 1:45 PM GMT
    "Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home,"

    "Are our communities capable of proving that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?"

    Not getting into the gay marriage debate- its sounds like the church is making progress toward accepting gays!

    I'm not catholic but its a comfort knowing that the church is willing to accept as I struggle through the coming out process!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/catholic-church-gays-_n_5976134.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 13, 2014 5:51 PM GMT
    Here's the dilemma:

    They know our weddings are more fabulous than theirs, but how does an institution which presents itself as holder of ultimate truth admit they've been wrong to deny our humanity and exclude us from enjoying our own human experience accepted as natural in the natural world, not unlike accepting how Earth enjoys revolving around the Sun, though their "truth" had insisted otherwise.

    When might gay people in a world of Skype and Tweet expect the church to resolve its dilemma?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair
    The Galileo affair...was a sequence of events, beginning around 1610...(when)...Galileo published his Sidereus Nuncius (Starry Messenger), describing the surprising observations that he had made with the new telescope...

    ...With the loss of many of his defenders in Rome because of Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633...

    ...In 1758 the Catholic Church dropped the general prohibition of books advocating heliocentrism from the Index of Forbidden Books. It did not, however, explicitly rescind the decisions issued by the Inquisition in its judgement of 1633 against Galileo...

    ...In 1992, it was reported in the news that the Catholic Church had turned around towards vindicating Galileo...

    ...In January 2008, students and professors protested the planned visit of Pope Benedict XVI to La Sapienza University, stating in a letter that the pope's expressed views on Galileo "offend and humiliate us as scientists who are loyal to reason and as teachers who have dedicated our lives to the advance and dissemination of knowledge." In response the pope canceled his visit...

    Progress. Meanwhile...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
    In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975. Thereafter other major mental health organizations followed and it was finally declassified by the World Health Organization in 1990.

    You're welcome to hold your breath for the next few centuries, but at least come to understand that even when not overtly expressed, implicit condemnation by the church will continue to damage the church's gay adherents, stealing rightful peace of mind from angels.

    In harming us, may the church be damned.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 13, 2014 6:06 PM GMT
    They just want more sheep to control. Nice try though.
  • carew28

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    Oct 13, 2014 6:52 PM GMT
    Well, it does seem as though the Church is trying to make an effort to be welcoming to gays, on an official level. On the local level, most parishes (maybe with the exception of a few) have always accepted gay people on a "don't ask, don't tell" level.They were welcomed, even as gay persons, as long as they kept their sexuality to themselves. Same with Catholic high-schools and colleges. This is treating gays as second-class citizens, but it's basically the same attitude as the government had, until recently.

    Springfield has a new bishop now. From first impressions on the news, he seems like a good guy. It will be interesting to see how he turns out.

    Even "ultimate truth" changes with time. They just got around to acknowledging that Galileo was right a few years ago, that must have been quite a big step for them. Better late than never. It seems as though they're now trying to quietly shed their past "implicit condemnation" and replace it with a "welcoming home" type of attitude.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 13, 2014 6:58 PM GMT
    I think this is a major step in the right direction, for some of you it is easy to talk, but for homophobic nations to see that the Vatican is not condemning gays but somewhat supporting them is astonishing.

    I think for Catholic church this is a hardcore move
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    Oct 13, 2014 7:28 PM GMT
    kevex saidThey just want more sheep to control. Nice try though.


    I was just wondering what gays would do if they had nothing to complain about.
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    Oct 13, 2014 8:25 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer said
    kevex saidThey just want more sheep to control. Nice try though.


    I was just wondering what gays would do if they had nothing to complain about.

    They wouldn't be human anymore. Nice try!
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Oct 13, 2014 11:15 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer said
    kevex saidThey just want more sheep to control. Nice try though.


    I was just wondering what gays would do if they had nothing to complain about.
    Trust me, some of these guys will find something to complain about.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2014 2:18 AM GMT
    carew28 saidWell, it does seem as though the Church is trying to make an effort to be welcoming to gays, on an official level. On the local level, most parishes (maybe with the exception of a few) have always accepted gay people on a "don't ask, don't tell" level.They were welcomed, even as gay persons, as long as they kept their sexuality to themselves. Same with Catholic high-schools and colleges. This is treating gays as second-class citizens, but it's basically the same attitude as the government had, until recently.

    Springfield has a new bishop now. From first impressions on the news, he seems like a good guy. It will be interesting to see how he turns out.

    Even "ultimate truth" changes with time. They just got around to acknowledging that Galileo was right a few years ago, that must have been quite a big step for them. Better late than never. It seems as though they're now trying to quietly shed their past "implicit condemnation" and replace it with a "welcoming home" type of attitude.


    Even history changes based upon future perceptions, additional information, etc., and while some truths might rely for their veracity on circumstance which might alter or facts which can change, other truths are either more enduring regardless of situation or as in the case of an institution claiming to speak for omniscience certainly ought to be at least immutable given God.

    That being treated as a second class citizen is "basically the same attitude as the government had" (government we the people have the power to change, by the way) hardly excuses an institution of intimacy, be it family which might toss out a gay child, a partnership where some pervert uses homophobia to try and manipulate "love" or certainly a church which by its nature, and particularly true of the Christian churches as I understand them (with their priests as mediators), interjects themselves between adherents and their God (in prayers) or their conscience (in atonements). Life doesn't get much more personal or intrusive than that. Thereby seems to me a special responsibility to never violate such sanctity. If there's an abomination in the house, that's it, not us.

    Second class? I wouldn't put up with that from an internet stranger, not from a so-called friend turned bad--talk about changing truths--a family member, a colleague or a pastor. Until they attest to us as equal, they can all go fuck themselves.

    It is especially horrifying to me to see in an institution which claims to be sanctuary from the evils of the world to so insidiously inject the poisons of their pulpit. We welcome you to watch someone else's marriage, their happiness, but not to be for thee.

    I'm not convinced that making room at the back of the pews is a very welcoming attitude. Unless, of course, someone back there is sucking dick.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2014 9:25 AM GMT
    It's all about money. The gays are a market that is completely untapped, which ever churches get the drain lines attached first will be the most successful... come have your gay weddings here, then regular visits, getting support, etc.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 14, 2014 2:12 PM GMT
    Denver
    at least where i live there are little organizations that are a spin off from the main religion. Its a quality experience an you can get your catholic jesus like this:
    http://www.dignitydenver.org/


    The main catholic church in Rome is not going to change any time soon in our life times. Hate can be a big driving force that will fill churches if properly managed.


    not a church person myself but if your inclined that way do the research and get something out of it.