Gay Republican = Self-loathing?!?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 7:48 AM GMT
    Okay, I am writing this just because I have seen enough of this kind of talk to really upset me on a personal level. I consider myself (politically) to be somewhere between moderate and conservative. I definitely have many conservative values. Because of this, I am judged by other gay men as being self-loathing (and yes, I've seen that exact term used on this site and others to describe gay republicans). I'm sorry, but I find this kind of speech to be extremely hateful and judgmental.

    Should I be branded as "self-loathing" simply because I have a different belief system than the majority? OBVIOUSLY I don't hate gays, I don't hate myself, and I am not on some mission to spread any hateful speech that may be derived from the conservative party. I am sure many of you reading this may consider yourself Christian, so does this mean that you believe EVERYTHING the Christian faith tells you? The many who consider yourselves liberal, do you all agree on every single issue that is presented? I doubt it. So why then am I considered to be self-loathing? I cannot understand this.

    I think some might consider me to be a pretty ugly person without even getting to know me simply because I classify myself as a gay republican. For your information, there was only one oxymoron used in the previous sentence, though your ignorance and false claims of liberal acceptance may lead you to believe there were two.

    I just want to live in a world where I am not judged for my beliefs. I mean, really- aren't we all above that by now? I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with anyone gay or straight having liberal values. Nearly all my friends fall into that category. I don't judge them and I would fight to the death to defend their right to say and believe what they choose.

    For those of you who say "I don't understand how any gay man could ever be a republican", stop trying to understand it as if it is something that is wrong and just accept it. When you came out to your parents and they told you "I just don't understand how/why you could be gay" did you feel like telling them "it isn't something to dissect or to understand, it just is"?

    I am conservative because of my upbringing and the values I was raised with. Both my parents completely accept me for being gay, love me, and can't wait until gay-marriage is eventually passed in Rhode Island.

    I don't go around questioning why you are under a certain political affiliation. I don't really care. I care about who you are as a person and how you treat those around you.



    So, can we agree that it all ends today? The discrimination ends today (because when you take a step back and look at it, this kind of blind judgement truly is a form of discrimination).

    Let's agree to disagree, fuck the rest, and hug it out. icon_biggrin.gif



    Capisci?





    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 8:07 AM GMT
    maybe two party system is a sure way to antagonize.... pretty different from the rest of the world i'd say. just look at china, heheh. so, yeah, no point defining/explaining yourself in those terms only probably, since the options are kinda limited.
  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Jan 16, 2009 1:05 PM GMT
    I do have a problem with Gay Republicans. I think they support a party that has supported the restriction of rights of gays, and other minorities for years. For these last 8 years this administration, and other Republicans, have used the fear of gay people to advance their political agendas. Bush started in Texas, by pushing the idea that Ann Richards was hiring mostly homosexuals in her administration. This fear helped put him in office and continued to get him elected president and reelected.

    I think that those of you who are Republican, and vote Republican, help continue the fear mongering and thus contribute to the limiting of the rights of others. The Republican party, and especially the right wingof the party, is all about inflicting their social views on others.

    I don't think I have heard of the Democrats trying to limit the rights of any group.

    I think supporting the Republican party, does say something about those who are gay. I am not sure if it is self loathing, insecurities about other minorities or what. I just don't think it is a healthy and productive choice.
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Jan 16, 2009 3:48 PM GMT
    I don't view it as discrimination. Politics are a choice. You may not be appreciated. There's a big difference between discrimination and a lack of appreciation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
    It depends on what kind of a republican you are. If you're a neo-conservative, then yes, I'd have to agree that there is definitely a degree of self-loathing present. If however you're a conservative in the sense of the role of government in the US, it's a totally valid position to hold.

    What ever your feelings about Ron Paul are, he ran as a republican and thought that a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was completely ridiculous - he felt that the government shouldn't have a say in that matter. He definitely stood out in his party - because he is a real republican. I read his book "Revolution : A Manifesto" and he is a republican in the purest sense of the historical definition. The republican party that exists now is a complete perversion of what being a republican, or conservative means.

    Check out this vid:

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 4:08 PM GMT
    Please explain. What are your conservative values? I have listened to conservatives talk about there so-called values all my life, but I have yet to see any evidence that those values are anything other than conserving the money in their own pockets.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 5:32 PM GMT
    Rand saidOkay, I am writing this just because I have seen enough of this kind of talk to really upset me on a personal level. I consider myself (politically) to be somewhere between moderate and conservative. I definitely have many conservative values. Because of this, I am judged by other gay men as being self-loathing (and yes, I've seen that exact term used on this site and others to describe gay republicans). I'm sorry, but I find this kind of speech to be extremely hateful and judgmental.

    Should I be branded as "self-loathing" simply because I have a different belief system than the majority? OBVIOUSLY I don't hate gays, I don't hate myself, and I am not on some mission to spread any hateful speech that may be derived from the conservative party. I am sure many of you reading this may consider yourself Christian, so does this mean that you believe EVERYTHING the Christian faith tells you? The many who consider yourselves liberal, do you all agree on every single issue that is presented? I doubt it. So why then am I considered to be self-loathing? I cannot understand this.

    I think some might consider me to be a pretty ugly person without even getting to know me simply because I classify myself as a gay republican. For your information, there was only one oxymoron used in the previous sentence, though your ignorance and false claims of liberal acceptance may lead you to believe there were two.

    I just want to live in a world where I am not judged for my beliefs. I mean, really- aren't we all above that by now? I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with anyone gay or straight having liberal values. Nearly all my friends fall into that category. I don't judge them and I would fight to the death to defend their right to say and believe what they choose.

    For those of you who say "I don't understand how any gay man could ever be a republican", stop trying to understand it as if it is something that is wrong and just accept it. When you came out to your parents and they told you "I just don't understand how/why you could be gay" did you feel like telling them "it isn't something to dissect or to understand, it just is"?

    I am conservative because of my upbringing and the values I was raised with. Both my parents completely accept me for being gay, love me, and can't wait until gay-marriage is eventually passed in Rhode Island.

    I don't go around questioning why you are under a certain political affiliation. I don't really care. I care about who you are as a person and how you treat those around you.



    So, can we agree that it all ends today? The discrimination ends today (because when you take a step back and look at it, this kind of blind judgement truly is a form of discrimination).

    Let's agree to disagree, fuck the rest, and hug it out. icon_biggrin.gif



    Capisci?





    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif


    Being a gay republican isn't a sufficient condition for being a self-loathing homosexual. It's quite possible for a gay republican to have a healthy "self" image; in fact, I know a few gay republicans who are well-adjusted.

    To me, though, your post is short on substance. You sound a bit naive. You say you have conservative values--because your parents taught them to you! icon_lol.gif--but you don't even say what they are. (What are they?) You indicate that you love gay people, yet you include off-putting phrases such as "I'm not a fan of gay parades" and "I'm turned off by queens" in your profile. You say you want to live in a world where you are not judged by your beliefs--as if people don't have the right to question your convictions or the motivation behind them.

    But you're just a 20 year-old gay white male in Bristol, Rhode Island.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Jan 16, 2009 5:48 PM GMT
    I'd say just let the "self loathing" accusations roll off your back. Many Liberals like to think their opinion is the only valid one, and all others are just eye-role inducing and chalked up to "self loathing" or "ignorant". We know that not to be true, so just own your opinion and be proud of it.
  • shoelessj

    Posts: 511

    Jan 16, 2009 5:50 PM GMT
    Are you in favor of smaller government? Do you agree that, as reagan said, that government "is the problem"? Are you for lower taxes? Do you want the market to decide as opposed to government getting involved in business? Are you more of an isolationist as opposed to having the US get involved in every conflict throughout the world? Are you in favor of civil unions or marriage for same sex couples? Equal tax benefits for same sex couples, like married couples? Are you in favor of the flat tax for income taxes? Are your political views based on a religious outlook? Is the bible more important than the constitution?

    You may be a conservative. Rockefeller was a republican, bill weld is a republican, bloomberg was until recently a republican, there have been plenty of decent, moderate repubs here in illinois, too [sheesh, i'd prefer a repub gov right now to the democratic maniac we are stuck with until he goes to prison].

    I respect that because of the way some people were raised, their backgrounds, etc., they are repubs as adults -- that doesn't mean they hate gays or that if they're gay they hate themselves. its like if you find out someone is catholic -- and there are a few of us -- do you shout at them 'how can be catholic! how can you listen to child-molesting priests! Catholics hate gays! they hate you! you're self-hating!' ? well, i suppose there are people who act like that, but its not very constructive, is it?

    it's true that there should be more than two parties, so people who identify mostly with one party wouldn't be pigeon-holed into identifying solely with one party.

    personally i don't see how anyone can be republican. that's because i see things from a democratic perspective. But i wish that dems were more conservative on things where money and crime and schools are concerned. I like innovation as opposed to just tossing money at problems. but i believe i can influence other dems with a good argument and respectful debate. maybe you can do the same with your fellow repubs you don't share views with. and maybe we can all respectfully disagree with each other but then work to get things done and improve our country and world.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 6:08 PM GMT
    i never understood why people feel the need to label themselves as one or the other.

    I have dated guys who will only vote democratic regardless, they don't read anything the just vote DEM, and i think that's ridiculous.

    My upbringing taught me to make my own choices analyze what a prez candidate has to offer and overall who do you think best reflects your current views, because views do change as you age.

    My parents have voted both ways and they dont recognize either party.

    I'm the same way, and in ways i have views from both partys.

    anytime i have taken those online test to see where you stand i always end up in the direct center of the graph or very close to it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Jan 16, 2009 6:20 PM GMT
    I just wish everyone would understand and accept that we all have different opinions and ways we view the world and our government -- and that's okay. Heck, I love Sarah Palin, and my boyfriend can't even stand the mere mention of her name -- but that's okay too. Maybe if I make him some "Moose Stew" he'll come around. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 6:21 PM GMT
    gay republicans circa 2000, yes,
    gay republicans circa 1850, no.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jan 16, 2009 6:28 PM GMT
    Rand said, "I just want to live in a world where I am not judged for my beliefs."

    It's conservatism that judges us homosexuals and causes us to fight for equal rights, as evident in gay marriage, hospital visitation rights, employment equal opportunity and victim rights, amongst many other things. The bedrock foundation of the Republican Party is founded in the principles of a Judeo-Christian ethos that an overwhelming majority of the party's members fail to comprehend and live by and therefore make us homosexuals enemies of their political ideology. The only resistance we homosexuals get in seeking full equality comes from the Republican Party. Many homosexuals reject religion altogether, especially Christianity, because not of its intended values, but because of the rampant misuse of religion mixed into politics that Republicans do so chronically regularly.

    If you fail to realize this, then we consider you to be self-loathing. It's not because of your values system, but because you fail to differentiate between intended Christian values and the actual, contradictory acts of many Republicans that are at odds with what you claim to espouse.

    Many liberals have a faith and/or a values system, but we just don't politicize it and wear it on our sleeves, nor do we misuse it as a social symbol so that we can pretend that we will be saved when the world ends.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 6:32 PM GMT
    It is important that your beliefs are coherent.

    Supporting liberal sexual morality and believing that even though you are in a minority, you are still equal to everyone else sits uncomfortably with these conservative values

    i) Anti- hispanic immigration policies
    ii) Promoting two parent heterosexual families
    iii) Pro life policies
    iv) Opposing a welfare system funded through taxation that gives everyone an equal chance in life.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2009 6:36 PM GMT
    I consider myself a social liberal but a fiscal conservative. I am pro free-trade, pro individiual responsibilities, pro education and pro government funded health care.

    If I was an American citizen I would vote Democrat but be on the conservative side of the party. The Republicans do have some things going for them. The problem is they are now beholden to the Christian right for support which, as a gay man, I could never support.

    If you vote Republican and are gay, I don't think you are self-loathing, but I bet that discrimination is not as big a concern for you as it is for other gay men.
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    Jan 16, 2009 7:52 PM GMT
    I know I'll get in trouble for this, but I equate gay Republicans to Jewish Nazis. These are each 2 things impossible to ever reconcile. How anyone could rationalize such a conflicting combination is thoroughly puzzling to me.
  • dhinkansas

    Posts: 764

    Jan 16, 2009 8:06 PM GMT
    The beauty of our political system is making up your own mind as to what your political stance is. Not all repubicans are the ridiculous right wing christian conservative, and not every democrat is a far far left bleeding liberal.

    Save the loathing for those not voting and participating. Make your voices heard.
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    Jan 16, 2009 8:08 PM GMT
    Well, some of my values and beliefs are the following-

    I believe in smaller government.

    I am in support of gay marriage and equal rights. before anyone calls me hypocritical in this support, I'd like to thank ShoelessJ for the following:

    "You may be a conservative. Rockefeller was a republican, bill weld is a republican, bloomberg was until recently a republican, there have been plenty of decent, moderate repubs here in illinois, too [sheesh, i'd prefer a repub gov right now to the democratic maniac we are stuck with until he goes to prison].

    I respect that because of the way some people were raised, their backgrounds, etc., they are repubs as adults -- that doesn't mean they hate gays or that if they're gay they hate themselves. its like if you find out someone is catholic -- and there are a few of us -- do you shout at them 'how can be catholic! how can you listen to child-molesting priests! Catholics hate gays! they hate you! you're self-hating!' ? well, i suppose there are people who act like that, but its not very constructive, is it?

    it's true that there should be more than two parties, so people who identify mostly with one party wouldn't be pigeon-holed into identifying solely with one party.
    "

    it this kind of respectful disagreement and understanding that I was hoping to receive and incite with my post.


    Of course I see reason for the welfare system in certain instances in which the recipient is deserving, however i do believe that many take advantage of this system and don't use it for what I believe it is intended- as a way to get back on your feet and eventually become independent to the point where he/she is no longer reliant on such a system.

    I am pro-life. This is not just because I was raised in a conservative family, it actually takes root in the circumstances surrounding my own birth. i was born just shy of four months premature. My heart stopped beating for 8 minutes and I was finally revived by a young doctor. My entire hand was smaller than my fathers thumbnail. As the doctors poked and prodded me, I screamed and cried with every movement. I just can't see taking a life away when you have no idea of the potential and the love he/she has to offer the world. I guess i can't consider myself 100% pro-life because I do believe that, warranting very pressing circumstances, a termination of pregnancy would be warranted before nerve-endings are formed within the first trimester. However, if the pregnancy is a result of a one-night stand, teenage lust, or similar situation, then i believe the mother must take responsibility for her action, face the consequences, and either provide the best life possible for her child or give the child to a deserving family.

    I won't even go into my views on the educational system because my aim for this post is not to incite anger, resentment, or debate, but rather to ask for acceptance and respect for nothing more than differing viewpoints.

    MuslDrew said: "I don't view it as discrimination. Politics are a choice. You may not be appreciated. There's a big difference between discrimination and a lack of appreciation."

    I am not saying that you, or the whole who disagree with republican values are discriminatory, but I am saying that the words and actions of some present themselves in such a way. I have been blindly disregarded and judged by some for my intelligence, my opinion, my motives, and my character after them discovering my political values. Is this not any different than someone doing the same to another because he/she has opposing religious beliefs? I view this type of reaction as discriminatory. After discrimination is defined as "treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit" (as defined by dictionary.com)


    All I am saying is that we should not judge one another on whether or not we are in the same political alignment. It only creates hate. My main purpose here is to dispel the notion that I hate myself simply because I lean right on some issues. That is all.

    And as for my profile, no I am not a fan of gay-parades, and when I say turned off by queens, i should rephrase to say I am not personally attracted to gay men who are overtly feminine but would never reject their friendship. I realize that it does sound cruel and judgmental the way it is currently phrased and I am sorry for that.

    Is it a crime for me to not be a fan of gay-parades? Am i obligated to be in attendance and cheer on the sidelines because I am gay? No. I am not out there protesting gay-parades. I would never do that. You conveniently neglected to quote that I am in full support of them. They are simply not the kind of event that i would like to attend.

    Anyway, have a great day everyone. I hope I am not the punch-line for attack here.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jan 16, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
    The day the Republican Party isn't cheerled by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, William Kristol, Ann Coulter and "X" Evangelical is the day I will take the Republican Party seriously. It's not the values that they pretend to have that irks me, it's the fact that they pretend to have values and the Republicans don't rebuke them for it.
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    Jan 16, 2009 11:51 PM GMT
    The Republican party platform of 1892 from the context:

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29628

    "We demand that every citizen of the United States shall be allowed to cast one free and unrestricted ballot in all public elections, and that such ballot shall be counted and returned as cast; that such laws shall be enacted and enforced as will secure to every citizen, be he rich or poor, native or foreign-born, white or black, this sovereign right, guaranteed by the Constitution. The free and honest popular ballot, the just and equal representation of all the people, as well as their just and equal protection under the laws, are the foundation of our Republican institutions, and the party will never relax its efforts until the integrity of the ballot and the purity of elections shall be fully guaranteed and protected in every State.

    Southern Outrages

    We denounce the continued inhuman outrages perpetrated upon American citizens for political reasons in certain Southern States of the Union."

    "The Republican party has always been the champion of the oppressed and recognizes the dignity of manhood, irrespective of faith, color, or nationality; it sympathizes with the cause of home rule in Ireland, and protests against the persecution of the Jews in Russia.

    The ultimate reliance of free popular government is the intelligence of the people, and the maintenance of freedom among men. We therefore declare anew our devotion to liberty of thought and conscience, of speech and press, and approve all agencies and instrumentalities which contribute to the education of the children of the land, but while insisting upon the fullest measure of religious liberty, we are opposed to any union of Church and State..."


    At one point in our past, the Republican party was something to be admired. I think all that finally changed with Hoover.

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    Jan 16, 2009 11:54 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said Heck, I love Sarah Palin, and my boyfriend can't even stand the mere mention of her name -- but that's okay too icon_lol.gif


    Todd, what would Sarah have to do to make you fall out of love with her? Are her post-election tantrums not enough? Her whiny self-pity and blaming the media, handlers, Tina Fey, Katie Couric, and Keith Olbermann not embarrassing for someone who hopes to persuade 50.1% of the country to vote for her someday?

    How can she top this?
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    Jan 17, 2009 12:13 AM GMT
    A lot of people forget that Democrat, and Liberal, as well as Republican, and Conservative, are not the same thing.

    Democrat, and Republican, are political affiliations, Republicans tend to be more for smaller government, lower taxes, and being more self reliant, but getting a hand up when its needed. They believe that way makes the country stronger.

    Democrats are more for the government should help you out, and be there for you, though sometimes a little bit too much.

    Conservatives are more traditional, tend to be more religious, a lot of the philosophies are more from common sense. Acknowledge there is good, and evil, and have a strong sense of what is right, and wrong. Not all Republicans are Conservative, or are religious, because I know a few Republicans, who are pretty Liberal and are called RINO's (Republian In Name Only), and a few I know of, are atheist.

    Liberals are more about not being as judgmental as Conservatives seem to be to them. A bit more secular, and seem to be more of the dreamers, which isn't a bad thing of course, and tend to be more for the little guy, who may be overlooked at times, or even kicked down. Not only Democrats are Liberal, there are some pretty Conservative Democrats out there, and the Democratic presidents in our history were certainly more Conservative than they appear to be today.

    There is nothing bad about either party, or philosophies, as both have contributed greatly to the country, and have made the country the greatest in the world, and both have also failed the people in many situations when they lost their way. Its the extremes on both sides that cause all of the division, and the hatred.

    But gay Republicans certainly do not hate themselves, and its only something the extreme left (gay world) will try to throw at a gay man, who's political affiliations are more Republican, to insult him, and so adding to the division, and hate.

    And I liked Sarah Palin because she represents everything the feminist movement was all about, she's a self made, self reliant woman, who didn't need a man, or have rich uncle, or rich daddy get her where she is. Only reason why she was hated by the far left, and hypocritical fake feminist, is because she wasn't a Liberal, but you can bet your ass if she was Obama's running mate, everyone would have been in love with her, probably more so than him. They would have used her being from a small town, and having the tight family, and hard working ethic as a slap in the face to the Republicans, and Conservatives, and the whole thing with her daughter having a baby, wouldn't have even been an issue, or her clothes, all of the nasty lies, and attacks wouldn't have been done. As for the mistakes she made in interviews, they would have been excused.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2009 12:23 AM GMT
    Just because one is moderate to conservative politically, dose not mean I am self loathing either. I have not one issue, with being the only Fag in the village.

    Yet politically correctness come from the goodie two shoes left. Yet the banning of words also stop thoughts and ideas. I have seen political correctness be used as a weapon to abuse and repress. This come from the left wing. Acceptance they demand! So unaccepting they be!!

    What do they really fear, the left wing?
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jan 17, 2009 12:28 AM GMT
    Well then, I declare that the neo-conservatives have hijacked the Republican Party and they pretty much got a rubber stamp from the base. Remember the 2004 election when the #1 issue in the country quickly became gay marriage as Iraq fell away into a state of quagmire? Remember how the Republican base reunited in a false orgasmic party over the Palin rhetoric..."palling around with terrorists"?

    It is true that the Republican platform has lost credibility by the posers of the party and by the remaining masses who cannot honestly distinguish between credibility and liability.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jan 17, 2009 12:30 AM GMT
    Pattison said, "Yet the banning of words also stop thoughts and ideas."

    Just so you know since you're not an American, and for others who don't know as well, the Republican Party is credited with spinning words and phrases better than any group.