2 new studies about the effectiveness of Truvada - PrEP

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    Oct 29, 2014 11:45 PM GMT
    FYI, putting this out here without comment
    In an extraordinary development, a second European scientific trial of pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) has had its randomised phase closed early due to high effectiveness, just two weeks after the UK PROUD trial did exactly the same thing.

    The investigators of the IPERGAY trial, which has six sites in France and one in Canada, announced today a “Significant breakthrough in the fight against HIV and AIDS” because IPERGAY had successfully demonstrated the effectiveness of its PrEP regimen.

    IPERGAY’s early closure is significant not only because it adds confirmation that PrEP can be highly effective, but because it was testing an innovative, intermittent (“on-demand”) PrEP regimen. In this study, participants did not take PrEP daily, but only when they anticipated having sex. The regimen involved taking two pills of Truvada (tenofovir + emtricitabine) in the 24-hour period before anticipated sex and then, if sex happened, two separate one-pill doses in the two days following sex.* This extends the versatility of PrEP and provides an alternative regimen to daily dosing


    For those who want to read more:
    http://mobile.aidsmap.com/page/2917367
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    Oct 29, 2014 11:53 PM GMT
    Ohhh.. So this means we can all start having bareback sex?

    /s
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    Oct 30, 2014 12:15 AM GMT
    xrichx saidOhhh.. So this means we can all start having bareback sex?

    /s


    Wearing a seat belt doesn't mean you can safely drive drunk.


    Does taking advantage of PrEP prevent the user from also using condoms?
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    Oct 30, 2014 12:26 AM GMT
    Press releases issued months (or years) before the data is released drive me nutz icon_mad.gif

    *Although both of these studies posed interesting questions.

    One of them was not on the effectiveness of PrEP at all, but was trying to measure that much-argued question of how PrEP use affects condom use. They apparently have a statistically significant result, but aren't saying what it is.

    The other is on whether short-term PrEP (e.g. before and after your Gaycation) is an effective strategy. They're also not saying exactly what the result is - but are implying that it works.
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    Oct 30, 2014 5:45 AM GMT
    Have any of you read the side effects of Truvada?
    Good luck to you all.
  • atlken

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    Oct 30, 2014 11:13 AM GMT
    I have been on PrEP for a couple months now (every single day) with zero side effects. If you read the list of side effects, you might decide it's not worth it, but I have had none at all. Long term, it can cause bone density (brittle bone) issues, but at the rate things are changing, I feel like there will be something else better before long.

    As far as increase in bareback sex - people are already having a LOT of bareback sex. Studies related to PrEP that I read said that only 1 in 6 gay men use condoms EVERY time. I have never been able to keep it up as a top with a condom (even in my 20s), so I finally quit trying (as a top) about 7-8 years ago. At least half the guys who's profiles say "ALWAYS" safe would let me bareback them - I don't think I was the first!!

    STIs are a concern for sure - insurance coverage and the high cost in general for a "preventative drug" are also issues. PrEP is not the magic answer and not right for everyone - but for me (and others), based on my real life behavior of the last several years, I feel good about my decision....it is one tool among others to reduce new hiv infections.
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    Oct 30, 2014 11:21 AM GMT
    atlken saidI have been on PrEP for a couple months now (every single day) with zero side effects. If you read the list of side effects, you might decide it's not worth it, but I have had none at all. Long term, it can cause bone density (brittle bone) issues, but at the rate things are changing, I feel like there will be something else better before long.

    As far as increase in bareback sex - people are already having a LOT of bareback sex. Studies related to PrEP that I read said that only 1 in 6 gay men use condoms EVERY time. I have never been able to keep it up as a top with a condom (even in my 20s), so I finally quit trying (as a top) about 7-8 years ago. At least half the guys who's profiles say "ALWAYS" safe would let me bareback them - I don't think I was the first!!

    STIs are a concern for sure - insurance coverage and the high cost in general for a "preventative drug" are also issues. PrEP is not the magic answer and not right for everyone - but for me (and others), based on my real life behavior of the last several years, I feel good about my decision....it is one tool among others to reduce new hiv infections.

    Said the guy with 1 post.

    You all willing to go through Truvada, do you really think such medication won't have any negative effect on you in the long term? Laboratories only care about money and selling meds to people for life. Don't be idiots and take care of yourselves, don't use Truvada as a green light to do bareback sex, that's the dumbest thing anyone could do.
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    Oct 30, 2014 11:36 AM GMT
    Back in the 1950s and 60s the Pill was only available to married women. The argument for that was from social conservatives who said that without the threat of getting pregnant single women would become sluts and start having unprotected sex.
    The arguments against Truvada of many of you here have an almost identical subtext. "Take away the threat of HIV and those sluts will have bareback sex!!!"
    Newsflash- those 'sluts' already are having bareback sex! The risks someone is willing to take sexually is the business of them, their partners and their doctor. If they can't or won't ALWAYS wear condoms then PrEP is an excellent tool for them to reduce their sexual risk. And again, that is none of anyone else's business!
    It is a major breakthrough to have something else than condoms to prevent HIV! We should all be cheering. Instead too many of you are slut shaming and scare mongering.
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    Oct 30, 2014 12:36 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    Said the guy with 1 post.

    You all willing to go through Truvada, do you really think such medication won't have any negative effect on you in the long term? Laboratories only care about money and selling meds to people for life. Don't be idiots and take care of yourselves, don't use Truvada as a green light to do bareback sex, that's the dumbest thing anyone could do.


    He has been a member of this site since 2008. Not sure if you are implying that he is a sock account but it seems unlikely since he's been a member of this site for nearly seven years.

    Don't be an idiot and presume to know what's best for people when you have absolutely no medical training or background whatsoever.

    However I've been having a very active sex life since I'm 15 and I'm HIV negative and you're not - I must be doing something right then. Hint: I dont fuck around and if I do I always wear a condom.
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    Oct 30, 2014 1:05 PM GMT
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    Said the guy with 1 post.

    You all willing to go through Truvada, do you really think such medication won't have any negative effect on you in the long term? Laboratories only care about money and selling meds to people for life. Don't be idiots and take care of yourselves, don't use Truvada as a green light to do bareback sex, that's the dumbest thing anyone could do.


    He has been a member of this site since 2008. Not sure if you are implying that he is a sock account but it seems unlikely since he's been a member of this site for nearly seven years.

    Don't be an idiot and presume to know what's best for people when you have absolutely no medical training or background whatsoever.

    However I've been having a very active sex life since I'm 15 and I'm HIV negative and you're not - I must be doing something right then. Hint: I dont fuck around and if I do I always wear a condom.


    Aww come on now. That was a bit harshicon_sad.gif
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    Oct 30, 2014 1:23 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    Said the guy with 1 post.

    You all willing to go through Truvada, do you really think such medication won't have any negative effect on you in the long term? Laboratories only care about money and selling meds to people for life. Don't be idiots and take care of yourselves, don't use Truvada as a green light to do bareback sex, that's the dumbest thing anyone could do.


    He has been a member of this site since 2008. Not sure if you are implying that he is a sock account but it seems unlikely since he's been a member of this site for nearly seven years.

    Don't be an idiot and presume to know what's best for people when you have absolutely no medical training or background whatsoever.

    However I've been having a very active sex life since I'm 15 and I'm HIV negative and you're not - I must be doing something right then. Hint: I dont fuck around and if I do I always wear a condom.


    So you've been a whore since fifteen. Whoopie doo. You're just lucky is all. Living in some isolated area of the world, like the Amazon rainforest more than likely has a significantlying less population of people living with HIV. So the chances of you getting HIV are statistically lower compared to someone living in a modern American city like San Francisco or NYC (where HIV+ populations are much higher).

    You say you "don't fuck around" followed by, "but if I do...." So which is it? You sound so confusing.

    Don't presume yourself to be the sex police. It makes you look bad.


    Who said I've been a whore? I clearly said the opposite, but apparently you chose to nderstand what's convenient for you.
    I don't fuck around, always had ltr, However I'm not a monk, and while single I had casual sex, always wearing a condoms - how is that being lucky? That's just being responsible - something MANY gays aren't, hence they keep getting themselves infected with HIV.

    Living in the "Amazon rain forest"? LOL. Is that the best you can come up with? Telling 100% bullshit? I live in Uruguay, do yourself a favor and Google it. Hint: it's a county more socially developed and gay friendly than yours.

    All in all your entire response was full of wrong assumptions that show how wordless you are on the subject.
    You fucked up, got infected and now try to find excuses why the rest like me didn't. Well let me tell you all it took was to take the necessary precautions, as simple as that. You should learn from it and promote that behavior instead of all the sick unhealthy ideas you like to advocate.

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    Oct 30, 2014 1:35 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    And lastly, I don't have regret about my HIV status so you trying to rub it in my face is a wasted effort on your part. I know I am blessed in so many ways and am very healthy. I wouldn't want to trade places with you; not even for five minutes.

    Who in their right mind would want to be you? Some faceless coward pontificating in the thread forums about other people's sexual behavior. Some spineless coward who stupidly sends out pics of his dick and gets all pussyhurt when they wind up circulating throughout the internet. Some wannabe bisexual who really thinks about cock when he fucks his girlfriend? Not me.


    Oh I see you edited your reply and added some more bullshit on it.

    Its somewhat funny you say you wouldn't trade shoes with me. Well trust me that certainly nobody would trade shoes with you. Really, who would want to suddenly become HIV+? And on top of everything being a disgusting and resentful human being? And a bald one a it!

    No thanks, I'll stick with my hidden dick pictures, my hairy back and my girlfriend that by the way I love more than life.

    Now go promote some unhealthy shit somewhere else, apparently that's all you're here for.
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    Oct 30, 2014 2:03 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    And lastly, I don't have regret about my HIV status so you trying to rub it in my face is a wasted effort on your part. I know I am blessed in so many ways and am very healthy. I wouldn't want to trade places with you; not even for five minutes.

    Who in their right mind would want to be you? Some faceless coward pontificating in the thread forums about other people's sexual behavior. Some spineless coward who stupidly sends out pics of his dick and gets all pussyhurt when they wind up circulating throughout the internet. Some wannabe bisexual who really thinks about cock when he fucks his girlfriend? Not me.


    Oh I see you edited your reply and added some more bullshit on it.

    Its somewhat funny you say you wouldn't trade shoes with me. Well trust me that certainly nobody would want to trade shoes with you! Really, who would want to suddenly be HIV+? And on top of everything being a disgusting and resentful human being? And a bald one a it.

    No thanks, I stick with my hidden dick pictures, my hairy back and my girlfriend that by the way I love more than my life.

    Now go promote some unhealthy shit somewhere else, apparently that's all you do here.


    Just because I don't like you and one or two other people on this site doesn't mean I'm resentful. Since you shit on people here I shit right back and vomit on you and kick sand in your face. You only get this treatment from me because of the lousy asshole you are on this site.

    The rampant stupidity on this site is unbelievable. Your hypocrisy is typical of some angry self loathing gay who feels compelled to control others. Just let people be.

    For someone who has a "girlfriend" you certainly make a lot of time for a gay site. My guess is you hide because you cheat on her. Hence the, "I don't fuck around but if I do" comment.


    If I cheated on her I wouldn't be here, I would be on Grindr fucking guys in public bathrooms something I never did.

    And the reason I call you out on your bullshit is not because I don't like you, -which I don't- it is because all the shit you advocate. The gay community is going to hell, medical companies taking advantage of it, and you promote ways that instead of helping gays it leads them to the worst path. Injecting shit on their dicks to make it grow? Saying how much better it is to fuck with no condoms? Promoting Prep? Get out of here, you're one of the most toxic people in this forum.
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    Oct 30, 2014 2:11 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    Said the guy with 1 post.

    You all willing to go through Truvada, do you really think such medication won't have any negative effect on you in the long term? Laboratories only care about money and selling meds to people for life. Don't be idiots and take care of yourselves, don't use Truvada as a green light to do bareback sex, that's the dumbest thing anyone could do.


    He has been a member of this site since 2008. Not sure if you are implying that he is a sock account but it seems unlikely since he's been a member of this site for nearly seven years.

    Don't be an idiot and presume to know what's best for people when you have absolutely no medical training or background whatsoever.


    You should heed your own advice and stop trying to pass taking medication as being sufficient to be called safe sex on it's own. If you haven't worked out that myself and many others are only trying to point out that there is an increasing perception that HIV medication on it's own is safe sex and some of the posts from guys on here are re-enforcing that.

    Regarding BB anal sex, the so called inevitability of BB is the fault of individual choices but equally it must break recognised the impact of "The Swiss Statement" since 2008 on the attitudes of gay men towards using reliable actual safe sex methods has created a false sense of security within the community regarding safe sex. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that the culture of sexual behavoiurs have been changed.
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    Oct 30, 2014 2:32 PM GMT
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    And lastly, I don't have regret about my HIV status so you trying to rub it in my face is a wasted effort on your part. I know I am blessed in so many ways and am very healthy. I wouldn't want to trade places with you; not even for five minutes.

    Who in their right mind would want to be you? Some faceless coward pontificating in the thread forums about other people's sexual behavior. Some spineless coward who stupidly sends out pics of his dick and gets all pussyhurt when they wind up circulating throughout the internet. Some wannabe bisexual who really thinks about cock when he fucks his girlfriend? Not me.


    Oh I see you edited your reply and added some more bullshit on it.

    Its somewhat funny you say you wouldn't trade shoes with me. Well trust me that certainly nobody would want to trade shoes with you! Really, who would want to suddenly be HIV+? And on top of everything being a disgusting and resentful human being? And a bald one a it.

    No thanks, I stick with my hidden dick pictures, my hairy back and my girlfriend that by the way I love more than my life.

    Now go promote some unhealthy shit somewhere else, apparently that's all you do here.


    Just because I don't like you and one or two other people on this site doesn't mean I'm resentful. Since you shit on people here I shit right back and vomit on you and kick sand in your face. You only get this treatment from me because of the lousy asshole you are on this site.

    The rampant stupidity on this site is unbelievable. Your hypocrisy is typical of some angry self loathing gay who feels compelled to control others. Just let people be.

    For someone who has a "girlfriend" you certainly make a lot of time for a gay site. My guess is you hide because you cheat on her. Hence the, "I don't fuck around but if I do" comment.


    If I cheated on her I wouldn't be here, I would be on Grindr fucking guys in public bathrooms something I never did.

    And the reason I call you out on your bullshit is not because I don't like you, -which I don't- it is because all the shit you advocate. The gay community is going to hell, medical companies taking advantage of it, and you promote ways that instead of helping gays it leads them to the worst path. Injecting shit on their dicks to make it grow? Saying how much better it is to fuck with no condoms? Promoting Prep? Get out of here, you're one of the most toxic people in this forum.


    Again I have to ask why is there so much hostility in the gay male community towards moderating behaviour?? Why is monogamy or even being monogamish such a vexed and loaded concept for far too many guys who want to see BB become the norm without any context around how such a major cultural shift toward BB occurred.
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    Oct 30, 2014 2:44 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    And lastly, I don't have regret about my HIV status so you trying to rub it in my face is a wasted effort on your part. I know I am blessed in so many ways and am very healthy. I wouldn't want to trade places with you; not even for five minutes.

    Who in their right mind would want to be you? Some faceless coward pontificating in the thread forums about other people's sexual behavior. Some spineless coward who stupidly sends out pics of his dick and gets all pussyhurt when they wind up circulating throughout the internet. Some wannabe bisexual who really thinks about cock when he fucks his girlfriend? Not me.


    Oh I see you edited your reply and added some more bullshit on it.

    Its somewhat funny you say you wouldn't trade shoes with me. Well trust me that certainly nobody would want to trade shoes with you! Really, who would want to suddenly be HIV+? And on top of everything being a disgusting and resentful human being? And a bald one a it.

    No thanks, I stick with my hidden dick pictures, my hairy back and my girlfriend that by the way I love more than my life.

    Now go promote some unhealthy shit somewhere else, apparently that's all you do here.


    Just because I don't like you and one or two other people on this site doesn't mean I'm resentful. Since you shit on people here I shit right back and vomit on you and kick sand in your face. You only get this treatment from me because of the lousy asshole you are on this site.

    The rampant stupidity on this site is unbelievable. Your hypocrisy is typical of some angry self loathing gay who feels compelled to control others. Just let people be.

    For someone who has a "girlfriend" you certainly make a lot of time for a gay site. My guess is you hide because you cheat on her. Hence the, "I don't fuck around but if I do" comment.


    If I cheated on her I wouldn't be here, I would be on Grindr fucking guys in public bathrooms something I never did.

    And the reason I call you out on your bullshit is not because I don't like you, -which I don't- it is because all the shit you advocate. The gay community is going to hell, medical companies taking advantage of it, and you promote ways that instead of helping gays it leads them to the worst path. Injecting shit on their dicks to make it grow? Saying how much better it is to fuck with no condoms? Promoting Prep? Get out of here, you're one of the most toxic people in this forum.


    Again I have to ask why is there so much hostility in the gay male community towards moderating behaviour?? Why is monogamy or even being monogamish such a vexed and loaded concept for far too many guys who want to see BB become the norm without any context around how such a major cultural shift toward BB occurred.


    I dont know why people like MMTA want to make bareback sex the norm, maybe you should ask them directly? Funny thing is when you say you always took care of yourself hence never got any STD they say 'you were lucky' as if it was a matter of chances and not self consciousness.
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    Oct 30, 2014 3:16 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said^ A matter of self-consciousness? That's not even a word.

    Both your English and Spanish are indicative of poor education. You speak both of them poorly,like a first grader learning to (clumsily) form sentences.

    At least your idiocy is consistent. Poor communication skills, poor comprehension skills, poor memory and quickly distorts information.

    I suggest spending less time sending out pics of your small penis and more time focusing on inner development.

    How do you even know how well I speak spanish?! icon_lol.gifHave you ever read me or hear me?

    English is my 2nd language and I learned it all by myself, never took 1 single lesson, no wonder I commit mistakes. Funny I take pride on what I can do instead of the mistakes I make.

    Now I remember YOU trying to speak spanish in the "Que hay en tu Mente?" thread and all were pathetic attempts so you shouldn't be so judgmental about people writing in second languages when you consider yourself Latin and can't even say 1 proper line in spanish.

    OK so I live in the Amazon and now I have a small penis icon_lol.gif. You keep making up crap out of the blue, that's all you've been doing for the last 2 hours. Keep going, I have 1 more hour to kill.
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    Oct 30, 2014 3:21 PM GMT
    David3K said
    How do you even know how well I speak spanish?! icon_lol.gifHave you ever read me or hear me?

    English is my 2nd language and I learned it all by myself, never took 1 single lesson, no wonder I commit mistakes. Funny I take pride on what I can do instead of the mistakes I make.

    Now I remember YOU trying to speak spanish in the "Que hay en tu Mente?" thread and all were pathetic attempts so you shouldn't be so judgmental about people writing in second languages when you consider yourself Latin and can't even say 1 proper line in spanish.

    I live in the Amazon, and now I have a small penis. LOL. You keep talking crap, that's all you've been doing for the last 2 hours. Keep going, I have 1 more hour to kill.

    Even though I am not proficient in Spanish, but I have seen your spanish writing skills, thanks to fatass kevex. They are anything but good enough for a native spanish speaker. You do have skills in spewing racism in any language though.
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    Oct 30, 2014 3:28 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidYour Spanish is terrible. I notice that both your English and Spanish grammar have a similar level of ineptitude.

    Not being judgmental but making an honest observation.


    lol, that's simply ridiculous. How could someone that BARELY speaks spanish could tell if grammar is right or wrong? icon_lol.gif Really stop being a troll.

    However I feel generous today and I will explain to you people from Uruguay and Argentina speak in a spanish dialect that came from the italian language called "rioplatence"; it's basically spanish but we change the verbs, words and have a very different accent. Anyone that truly speaks spanish knows and understand us, but probably you - that only know the basics of it- thinks that's grammatically wrong.

    See? You just learned something new today. You're welcome.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rioplatense_Spanish
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    Oct 30, 2014 3:46 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    David3K said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidYour Spanish is terrible. I notice that both your English and Spanish grammar have a similar level of ineptitude.

    Not being judgmental but making an honest observation.


    lol, that's simply ridiculous. How could someone that BARELY speaks spanish could tell if grammar is right or wrong? icon_lol.gif Really stop being a troll.

    However I feel generous today and I will explain to you people from Uruguay and Argentina speak in a spanish dialect that came from the italian language called "rioplatence"; it's basically spanish but we change the verbs, words and have a very different accent. Anyone that truly speaks spanish knows that, but probably you - that only know the basics of it- thinks that's grammatically wrong.

    See? You just learned something new today. You're welcome.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rioplatense_Spanish



    I know of rioplatense and it's spelled with an "s" and not a "c." Another perfect example of your poor grasp of your own language.

    You fool, you make proving my point an effortless task for me. Thanks! icon_lol.gif

    LOL! Thats called a typo. A ver que tan bien hablas español y no vale usar Google translate por que te lo va a traducir como el orto. Por que no me explicas como es que te agarraste vih me da curiosidad, espero que esta pregunta no te ponga incomodo. Y por supuesto deberias responder en español pelado.
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    Oct 30, 2014 4:00 PM GMT
    ^ Interesting how all of a sudden it takes MMTA ages to reply lol.
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    Oct 30, 2014 11:37 PM GMT
    It does seem that there is an inherent contradiction in pushing a medication that prevents HIV while also saying it's not a green-light to bareback sex. What else would make it preferable to just using a condom?
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    Oct 30, 2014 11:50 PM GMT
    What percentage of guys on PrEP also use condoms to prevent other STIs?

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    Oct 30, 2014 11:58 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer saidIt does seem that there is an inherent contradiction in pushing a medication that prevents HIV while also saying it's not a green-light to bareback sex. What else would make it preferable to just using a condom?


    Presumably the fact that a condom can fail? I'll admit to being rather confused about the details of how the new prevention drugs work, but I thought the theory was that using two forms of prevention, both with a low percentage failure rates, would produce a failure rate that is a low percentage of a low percentage.

    But this comes more from math class than real-world experience. icon_confused.gif
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    Oct 31, 2014 1:06 AM GMT
    yetanotherphil said
    sf_swimmer saidIt does seem that there is an inherent contradiction in pushing a medication that prevents HIV while also saying it's not a green-light to bareback sex. What else would make it preferable to just using a condom?


    Presumably the fact that a condom can fail? I'll admit to being rather confused about the details of how the new prevention drugs work, but I thought the theory was that using two forms of prevention, both with a low percentage failure rates, would produce a failure rate that is a low percentage of a low percentage.

    But this comes more from math class than real-world experience. icon_confused.gif


    Maybe, although condoms already have a very high rate of effectiveness. I wonder if anyone has studied the protection provided by Truvada alone vs. Truvada and condom together. I haven't heard anyone suggesting that the recommendation is that they be used together.