The most affordable city for young people

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2014 9:27 PM GMT
    Interesting datapoint... but I guess if you were factoring in opportunity then, Toronto would be above Paris.

    http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/you-ll-never-guess-the-most-affordable-city-for-young-people.html?cid=sf01002

    So what was the result of the global ranking after all these unusual numbers were crunched. Here's the ranking (bet you didn't see number one coming):

    Paris
    Toronto
    Los Angeles
    Chicago
    Berlin
    Dallas
    Rome
    New York
    Tokyo
    London
    Seoul
    Buenos Aires
    Istanbul
    Cairo
    Johannesburg
    Bogota
    Lima
    Mumbai
    Lagos
    Sao Paulo
    Manila
    Shanghai
    Mexico City
    Nairobi
    Kinshasa
    Of course, as Quartz writer Zainab Mudallal points out in her writeup of the index, affordability and opportunity are two totally separate things. "France has also recently been called a "sick" economy by its own economy minister, with its high unemployment rate and reputation for worker inefficiency. The high cost of doing business in France means that some employers consider it a risk to take on young people. So it may not be easy to find a job," she notes.

    It's a totally valid point. No matter how affordable a city is theoretically, if you can't get even one of the those relatively well paid minimum wage gigs, a promising budget on paper isn't going to mean a thing. So take the results with a grain of salt before you rush off to brush up on your French. The rankings, however, do serve as a reminder that a lot more goes into making a city attractive to young people than sensible-sounding basics and cheap housing.
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    Oct 31, 2014 6:16 PM GMT
    Using only capital/major cities is inherently flawed because minor cities will for the most part have the same minimum wages and cheaper rents. Of course, right now unemployment is lower in the big cities so that mitigates the effect to an extent but I still proclaim this study to be...silly.
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    Nov 01, 2014 10:13 AM GMT
    Paris and cheap?
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    Nov 01, 2014 3:17 PM GMT
    __morphic__ saidParis and cheap?



    London cheap? Absolutely no way.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Nov 01, 2014 3:34 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    Ohno saidUsing only capital/major cities is inherently flawed because minor cities will for the most part have the same minimum wages and cheaper rents. Of course, right now unemployment is lower in the big cities so that mitigates the effect to an extent but I still proclaim this study to be...silly.


    John Sanphillippo discusses smaller cities w/ lower rents on his blog like Cincinatti, but I wouldn't want to live in most small cities since the odds are that they're homophobic. Johnny has a great blog -

    See,
    http://granolashotgun.com/

    I don't know how L.A. made the list. What part of L.A. are they talking about. It is for the most part a huge crime ridden city with high gasoline costs. Rents are well over $1000 monthly. When I drive from Ventura County to Riverside County, I don't even get off the freeway anywhere in LA county. My last stop is the Calabasas McDonalds, right off the freeway at the Ventura / LA county line (near Bob Hope's old ranch). I couldn't even tell you what exit to get off for West Hollywood or Santa Monica, even though I'd love it there (except for the traffic). I would love to live in L.A. but I'd need a roomate and taxi to take me through the traffic. But I don't like roomates, even gay roomates who are seeking the same, unless they are genuine FRIENDS. OK yes I am being slightly sarcastic but that's just me. Ah, yes, in that case I need to move to the West Hollywood / Santa Monica area. Or maybe New Mexico is better since the film industry is moving there! Santa Fe is probably at least 20% gay.

    But my story here is very typical of Californians who cannot afford the coastal markets that are most accepting and very diverse. We end up living in 2nd tier markets such as Reno and Riverside county that are not very diverse, have fewer job opportunities, and horrible medical care. That's why Johnny's blog is a great read.
    Not all small and mid sized cities are homophobic especially college and university dominated places like Madison WI, Ann Arbor MI, Bloomington IN, Ithaca NY, and Burlington VT.
  • Krispy1985

    Posts: 24

    Nov 01, 2014 4:30 PM GMT
    I live in London. I put my wage into a mortgage calculator and the only properties I could afford were garages here. Optimistically I can make it look nice with some throw pillows and some soft lighting, but I'd have to poop in a bucket.

    I can't see any of the other places on the list being that much better.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Nov 01, 2014 4:37 PM GMT
    I have no idea how a young person can afford to live in Manhattan. Unless they're on the Wall Street money/theft train.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Nov 01, 2014 4:46 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI have no idea how a young person can afford to live in Manhattan. Unless they're on the Wall Street money/theft train.
    Young people need to stop looking just at the big, major cities for future opportunities because they are too expensive and entry level positions are scarce. The employment situation in many small to medium sized cities is improving steadily and these are easier places to live in and establish a career. Both New York City and Los Angeles are not all what they are cracked up to be. But young people today need to get that "bright lights big city mentality" out of their heads once and for all. You live and work where you can easily afford it.
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    Nov 01, 2014 8:00 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    Ohno saidUsing only capital/major cities is inherently flawed because minor cities will for the most part have the same minimum wages and cheaper rents. Of course, right now unemployment is lower in the big cities so that mitigates the effect to an extent but I still proclaim this study to be...silly.


    John Sanphillippo discusses smaller cities w/ lower rents on his blog like Cincinatti, but I wouldn't want to live in most small cities since the odds are that they're homophobic. Johnny has a great blog -

    See,
    http://granolashotgun.com/

    I don't know how L.A. made the list. What part of L.A. are they talking about. It is for the most part a huge crime ridden city with high gasoline costs. Rents are well over $1000 monthly. When I drive from Ventura County to Riverside County, I don't even get off the freeway anywhere in LA county. My last stop is the Calabasas McDonalds, right off the freeway at the Ventura / LA county line (near Bob Hope's old ranch). I couldn't even tell you what exit to get off for West Hollywood or Santa Monica, even though I'd love it there (except for the traffic). I would love to live in L.A. but I'd need a roomate and taxi to take me through the traffic. But I don't like roomates, even gay roomates who are seeking the same, unless they are genuine FRIENDS. OK yes I am being slightly sarcastic but that's just me. Ah, yes, in that case I need to move to the West Hollywood / Santa Monica area. Or maybe New Mexico is better since the film industry is moving there! Santa Fe is probably at least 20% gay.

    But my story here is very typical of Californians who cannot afford the coastal markets that are most accepting and very diverse. We end up living in 2nd tier markets such as Reno and Riverside county that are not very diverse, have fewer job opportunities, and horrible medical care. That's why Johnny's blog is a great read.

    Your post is full of misinformation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 01, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    That was a shitty article. The main source of data was a blog full of vague infographs. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 01, 2014 10:32 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Destinharbor saidI have no idea how a young person can afford to live in Manhattan. Unless they're on the Wall Street money/theft train.
    Young people need to stop looking just at the big, major cities for future opportunities because they are too expensive and entry level positions are scarce. The employment situation in many small to medium sized cities is improving steadily and these are easier places to live in and establish a career. Both New York City and Los Angeles are not all what they are cracked up to be. But young people today need to get that "bright lights big city mentality" out of their heads once and for all. You live and work where you can easily afford it.


    Eh, it's not the glamour. There are many, many more career opportunities in my field here. And the pay is better than it would be for a similar position in other cities. Plus, it's better for the environment to live in big cities.
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    Nov 02, 2014 7:47 AM GMT
    There are so few places that are truly homophobic anymore. I grew up in a medium-sized city in Iowa and I would feel welcome and likely happy there.

    And rhe CALIFORNIA IS SO OMG EXPENSIVE is overblown. Yes, it is difficult to *buy* property here. But there are options. I pay $788/month to share a nice, not luxurious, 2-bedroom with another guy and a cat, in a nice, safe neighborhood with trees and good schools, and a great grocery store and several nice coffee shops within walking distance, as well as some of the world's best restaurants a bike or train ride away. Even if that seems like a lot - I'm paying about $9,500/year in rent. My same job in another city would likely pay at least that much less. If I met a partner who was earning as much as I was, and we decided that we wanted to buy a house together, we would have plenty of very good options.

    Add to that that it's pretty easy to live car-free, which saves thousands of dollars, and heating and cooling costs are essentially zero, and due to the close proximity to fertile agricultural land, food is both cheaper and better here.

    As far as the taxes driving people and businesses away - that's really just a fantasy. I'm not sure why people think that, but I can only assume it's sour grapes from people who feel trapped or otherwise dissatisfied with the towns they live in. The Bay Area economy is one of the strongest in the nation right now. Oh, but we have a 68 cents per gallon gas tax, which seems like a lot, but let's be real - people consume something like 500 gallons a year of gasoline. That's a total gas tax cost of $340 a YEAR. That is not gonna break the bank if you have a reasonable career. And once again, salaries are higher here than for comparable positions elsewhere.

    California is not without its problems - primarily that we've had two bad precipitation years in a row, and I don't think we can afford a third. If this turns out to be a long-term trend, there will definitely be implications.

    But the bottom line is that people don't want to hear about how great it is here. They'd rather hail some unexpected enclave in the Midwest or pretend that everyone here is drowning in debt in taxes because it makes for a better story.
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    Nov 02, 2014 9:09 AM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    __morphic__ saidParis and cheap?



    London cheap? Absolutely no way.

    They mostly picked capitals, so london was supposed to be somewhere in the list, so does Paris. But I didn't expect Paris to be on the top of the ordered list.
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    Nov 02, 2014 3:41 PM GMT
    If the cities listed are the most affordable, then it must be really expensive to live in Antarctica.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Nov 02, 2014 7:11 PM GMT
    CFL_Oakland said
    roadbikeRob said
    Destinharbor saidI have no idea how a young person can afford to live in Manhattan. Unless they're on the Wall Street money/theft train.
    Young people need to stop looking just at the big, major cities for future opportunities because they are too expensive and entry level positions are scarce. The employment situation in many small to medium sized cities is improving steadily and these are easier places to live in and establish a career. Both New York City and Los Angeles are not all what they are cracked up to be. But young people today need to get that "bright lights big city mentality" out of their heads once and for all. You live and work where you can easily afford it.


    Eh, it's not the glamour. There are many, many more career opportunities in my field here. And the pay is better than it would be for a similar position in other cities. Plus, it's better for the environment to live in big cities.
    That is in your field, whatever it is. But for most professions, entry level jobs are scarce in the big cities. Granted the wage scale is higher but than so is the cost of living and the cost of everything else. So you are really not getting financially ahead in these big, major cities, you are just struggling to get by day to day. The smaller and medium sized cities are better places for young people to live than the big, glamorous cities like Los Angeles and New York City.

    Here are three medium to large sized cities to check out: Columbus OH, Pittsburgh PA and Rochester NY. All three of them have relatively strong economies and their cost of living is very affordable and all three cities have a good quality of life overall.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 02, 2014 10:52 PM GMT
    I know plenty of people that live in/near LA with so-so incomes. And no, they don't live in the hood. And no, they don't share a 1 bedroom apartment with 10 people.

    If you make $30K - $40K a year, you can make it here. LA is huge. There are different areas/neighborhoods and housing costs vary. There's something for everyone.
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    Nov 03, 2014 12:19 AM GMT
    There is no truth to this list ! Nyc lol .
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    Nov 03, 2014 1:04 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Destinharbor saidI have no idea how a young person can afford to live in Manhattan. Unless they're on the Wall Street money/theft train.
    Young people need to stop looking just at the big, major cities for future opportunities because they are too expensive and entry level positions are scarce. The employment situation in many small to medium sized cities is improving steadily and these are easier places to live in and establish a career. Both New York City and Los Angeles are not all what they are cracked up to be. But young people today need to get that "bright lights big city mentality" out of their heads once and for all. You live and work where you can easily afford it.


    Young people live and work wherever they can get a good opportunity to advance their career, period. We are not in a position to pick cities, unless you have strong networking ties at a place that can land you a job.

    That being said I do agree that large cities like NY or LA are overrated since they are more expensive and there is way too much competition so you have to work yourself to death if you want to make it at the top of your field (NY-finance or fashion, LA-entertainment). I recently had the luxury of choosing between two similar jobs I had been offered, one in NY and one in Atlanta and I chose Atlanta. Even though the one in NY payed better, I knew that I would have to work much more and pay twice in rent for a much shittier apartment. Also this website helped to compare cost of living between both:

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=New+York%2C+NY&country2=United+States&city2=Atlanta%2C+GA
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 03, 2014 6:22 AM GMT
    It's definitely not London
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    Nov 03, 2014 6:03 PM GMT
    Austin
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Nov 03, 2014 8:43 PM GMT
    "unusual" numbers were "crunched"......

    And I stopped reading right there. Crap in, crap out. Dollars to donuts the tourism boards of some of the top cities funded this piece.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Nov 04, 2014 1:46 AM GMT
    epsilon saidAustin
    Oh hell no. Austin is horribly overrated and overpriced. Plus it is a miserable, unfriendly city with third world style traffic congestion. It is not even a real city rather it is a sprawled out, soulless suburb of a state capitol/state government complex. SERIOUSLY, STAY AWAY FROM AUSTIN AND THATS NO BULLSHIT.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Nov 04, 2014 4:27 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    __morphic__ saidParis and cheap?



    London cheap? Absolutely no way.


    Agreed they must mean living in a hostel with a group sharing one bathroomicon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 04, 2014 11:21 PM GMT
    Berlin. still affordable and with lots of opportunities. It's a great city for the young and creative.

    Montreal. cheap and easy to make connections.
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    Nov 24, 2014 5:30 PM GMT
    1/2 the cities on that list are an amusing choice since these are high cost of living cities. London is one of the most expensive cities in the world... There's still ways people starting out can live in high COL cities (roommates, cutting down on foods costs, etc) but it's interesting to hear the growing number of how many of my friends/ acquaintances are complaining how expensive NYC is, even with decent salaries of around $50-60k per year. Or maybe they're getting older and a realizing they should be more practical?

    High COL cities are probably good if you have a decent professional network, work in a well paying industry like finance or IT or are already established in your career but a lot of these cities aren't wise choices for some college grads IMO. The economic crash has made people realize they need to flexible about where they want to live/ can afford to live since there's a surplus of well educated fresh grads all competing for the same types entry level jobs. Or worse competing for retail/ low paying temp jobs. It's kind of scary to think of what's going to become of my generation actually.

    I think in the coming years ahead smaller, mid sized cities in the US like Minneapolis, San Diego, Richmond, Denver, etc... are going to become more popular as 20 somethings consider saving up for a house, marriage, etc. Someone has to be able to afford the homes many retirees are going to be selling in the decade ahead. Also, what's already happening is secondary cities surrounding NYC like Stamford, CT and Jersey City are becoming more in demand. These cities don't have the cachet of NYC, SF or LA but most of your paycheck doesn't goes towards rent either.