Does the Epistle of James Establish the Existence of Jesus?

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    Nov 06, 2014 9:48 PM GMT
    I don't think the content of the New Testament's Epistle of James does establish the existence of Jesus.
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    Nov 06, 2014 9:54 PM GMT
    "The epistle was addressed to "the twelve tribes scattered abroad" (James 1:1), which is generally taken to mean a Jewish Christian audience outside of Palestine."

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    Nov 06, 2014 10:48 PM GMT
    Bethany: “to paraphrase Dr. Ehrman, you’d think that Jesus’ brother would have known if Jesus didn’t exist and was just a story based on a composite of people who lived at the time…”

    StephenOABC asking Dr. Ehrman:

    Is she paraphrasing you from Did Jesus Exist?

    In your scholarly opinion, the Epistle of James is not written by James the Just, correct?
    In the letter, Jesus is mentioned at 1:1 and 2:1 but not as a personal brother. In Josephus, James doesn’t say he is a brother of Jesus, Josephus does.

    I believe you may use James as support for the existence of Jesus in Does Jesus Exist? Where does James own (claim) Jesus as a brother?
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    Nov 07, 2014 3:08 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said"The epistle was addressed to "the twelve tribes scattered abroad" (James 1:1), which is generally taken to mean a Jewish Christian audience outside of Palestine."



    1) scatter abroad could refer to post-Temple destruction, while, of course, James could not refer to that because he died before the post-destruction scattering

    2) We know the cities of Pauline Christianity. What cities were definitely Jamesian Christianity?
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    Nov 07, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    Sorry man, not familiar w those fairy tales. I have read The Hobbit though!
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    Nov 08, 2014 1:28 AM GMT
    Prof. Ehrman / UNC

    Yes, that’s my view: Jesus had a brother James (it’s attested in the Gospels, in Paul, and even in Josephus). My argument has nothing to do with the letter of James, that was forged in his name later; it has to do with Paul. Paul knew James and speaks of him as the Lord’s brother. If Jesus didn’t exist, I don’t see how Paul’s comment could be possible.
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    Nov 08, 2014 1:29 AM GMT
    My Response

    The jury has not been impressed that James called Jesus “my blood brother, fellow son of Mary.”
    James does not speak of Mary.
    Mary does not speak of James to Jesus.
    Mary Magdalene does not speak of James
    Peter and Judas do not speak to the Lord of his brother James.

    Jesus does not ask, who is my brother? James?

    Bart: If Jesus didn’t exist, I don’t see how Paul’s comment could be possible.

    Steefen: It doesn’t have to be. Paul’s comment on the resurrection body is not possible. Paul says things that cannot be possible and he doesn’t care.

    Copying from the second edition of my manuscript:

    What difference does it make, as long as in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed? – An Authentic Letter of Paul to the Philippians 1: 18.

    Paul is not a foundation for establishing the existence of Jesus. Like my pastor said in his sermon series “From Jesus to Christ, the Rise of Christianity,” before Paul, Gentiles received the messages of Jesus from the Hellenists: wave 1 the message spread at and after Pentecost and wave 2 the message spread to the Gentiles when the Hellenists left after the martyrdom of Stephen. I’m pretty sure the spread went to Phoenicia. Once something gets to Phoenicia, it’s going to cross the Mediterranean.
  • johnnyqhomo7

    Posts: 119

    Nov 08, 2014 3:48 AM GMT
    You see sir, you have a problem that I have found. Many in the gay world think that the bible is a "fairy tale". They have been so brutalized by the people in chrisitan power that they hate everything Christian, including the Bible. I as a gay Christian try to do the best I can to help alleviate some of the problems and pain they have went through, but I find there is little I can do.
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    Nov 08, 2014 3:24 PM GMT
    johnnyqhomo7 saidYou see sir, you have a problem that I have found. Many in the gay world think that the bible is a "fairy tale". They have been so brutalized by the people in chrisitan power that they hate everything Christian, including the Bible. I as a gay Christian try to do the best I can to help alleviate some of the problems and pain they have went through, but I find there is little I can do.


    You tawkin2me?

    I think you're talking to Koastal.

    Some of the problems they have gone through not have went through.

    you can't put new wine into old skins, I think, Jesus said.

    Let me bing that rt quick.

    Yep: Matthew 9: 17 and Luke 5: 33-39.

    My book, The Greatest Bible Study in Historical Accuracy by Steefen is the new skin of the Bible. You can put new wine into it.

    People have been putting their faith in the bible. Things change when faith is put into the bible renovated by historical accuracy. Ohhhh, once you see a more accurate view of the New Testament, we advance.