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difference between dating and fwb?

  • slowprogress

    Posts: 43

    Nov 09, 2014 10:33 AM GMT
    So after a several month detour of amazing sex with a dumb blond muscle twink, I dumped him last month to resume hunting for a suitable LTR.

    But I haven't been in a serious long-term relationship yet, and haven't felt what it's like to be in love. I've witnessed enough betrayal and heartbreak among my more experienced gay friends, that my cynical goal in finding the "right" guy is to find merely the hottest guy with a good personality and intelligence with whom the chemistry is tolerable. The soul mate stuff can develop over time, like in Beauty and the Beast, or with Drogos and Daenerys (Game of Thrones), or most marriages in human history...

    6 months ago I befriended this really hot, down-to-earth guy through other friends, and recently found out he was attracted to me as well. He admitted he's still trying to get over a two-year-old breakup of a 4-year relationship, hence not yet ready for another relationship, but wants to be "intimate" with me, whatever that means.

    I figured that something casual for now wouldn't be entirely unproductive, seeing that a relationship is a possibility in the future, and that I'm not emotionally invested enough to be hurt if it doesn't ultimately go there... so last weekend, we went to the movies and then basically spent the next 36 hours cuddling and making out at my place. It was hot, except that we're both tops, but he made a lot of compromises to keep me happy.

    As at least 2 separate friends pointed out to me, am I wasting time here, given my goal of something long-term? My reasoning was that these things are impossible to classify. If two guys liked each other enough, it seems silly to not compromise on positions now and then to enjoy seeing the other guy pleasured. As far as I know, fwb is friends having sex without romance. Is cuddling, making out, and home-cooked dinner dates by him not romantic? If I go for someone else who explicitly wants an LTR, that guy may very well have no idea whether that's what he really wants, whereas this guy I'm with has been in love, and knows what a long term relationship entails. Thoughts?

    Also, by some cosmic joke, most of my relationships happened to be with guys who already know my friends and/or each other, hence my love life's always under the microscope. This one is no exception, except the fwb situation make me more reluctant to be open about it to friends. Meanwhile he had no intention of hiding our arrangement from his roommate, who is friends with most of my friends, which makes me think I'm probably too paranoid about judging eyes...
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    Nov 09, 2014 12:36 PM GMT
    Good god dude, your thought process is all over the place so I'll make it short by asking you one simple question....what do you want from this guy?

    Regardless of what happens, it doesn't appear that you'll be happy with an LTR. And why is that? Because you're too guarded with other relationships you've witnessed and you care way too much on your friends' opinions, hence the "microscope."

    You want real advice then here is it....just go with it. If it develops into an LTR versus a fwb, then great! If there's heartbreak, then that's fine because that happens in relationships and learning from it makes you a stronger person. Good luck!
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    Nov 09, 2014 12:58 PM GMT
    If you spend several months with a dumb muscle twink and figure out you need an LTR, chances are you are too shallow and self involved for any sort of relationship beyond banging a dumb muscle twink.
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  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 901

    Nov 09, 2014 4:32 PM GMT
    The real problem you are having is that you fail to understand that this all happens to be entirely, totally, completely and only your life. You do not owe any explanation or justification to anyone, least of all to your possibly critical friends.

    So, you had a six-month FB arrangement with a hot dude? There has been nothing wrong with that. You enjoyed it. The blond enjoyed while it lasted, and now you parted ways.

    Your friends are now suggesting that your present FWB is not an ideal LTR BF material. Who are they to tell? You are enjoying the play, so far. The other dude seems to be happy to oblige. Why would you worry about this? Once it stops working for you, and when and if it does so, you will part your ways. Forever is a very long time...

    The moment someone looks good, attractive, and has an exciting life, quite a few people start passing themselves for concerned friends. When you look into their lives, you see that they have plenty of reasons to be concerned with their own happiness before they start worrying about yours.

    SC



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    Nov 09, 2014 6:38 PM GMT
    your profile says your 26 and live in nyc. I would say enjoy your beautiful life and dont share. Absolutely nothing wrong doing that. Sounds like your out there so chances are you find someone that seems to hang around through time. Put a ring on it when if you find this person.

    a husband is a lot of work. especially if both of you have no relationship skillz in that area.

    ltr; why are you doing this now?
    background;
    your family growing up was strong and you need this around you.

    children;
    you want to adopt children, go for it if you want.

    investment;
    you have a plan for example to invest in real estate and your the people person and you need a lesbian driven partner that wears flannel shirts. Another way of saying your planning a house hold and need sills not yet at the table.

    your getting older;
    your not old


    best of luck.

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    Nov 09, 2014 6:50 PM GMT
    I agree that you might benefit from defining our personal goals more specifically. The term LTR is pretty vague. Once you know what you want then you'll better be able to head in that direction.

    The one goal you can't plan for however is falling in love.
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  • craycraydoesd...

    Posts: 718

    Nov 09, 2014 7:09 PM GMT
    aloneintheworld said...I've witnessed enough betrayal and heartbreak among my more experienced gay friends, that my cynical goal in finding the "right" guy is to find merely the hottest guy with a good personality and intelligence with whom the chemistry is tolerable. The soul mate stuff can develop over time, like in Beauty and the Beast, or with Drogos and Daenerys (Game of Thrones), or most marriages in human history...


    How has this worked out in your past relationships, if any?
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  • slowprogress

    Posts: 43

    Nov 10, 2014 5:14 AM GMT
    ^^Actually I'd like to hear from more people about their thoughts on my approach quoted above. It sounds shallow, but I don't imagine it being much different from how most people decide to meet guys, if they weren't blindsided by love at first sight.

    Erik101 saidwhat do you want from this guy?

    Regardless of what happens, it doesn't appear that you'll be happy with an LTR. And why is that? Because you're too guarded with other relationships you've witnessed and you care way too much on your friends' opinions, hence the "microscope."


    Plan A is an eventual LTR, plan B is fwb until another LTR-worthy guy comes along. If plan A works out, obviously I'd be nothing less than proud... it's the less-than-ideal arrangement in the meantime that I'm somewhat embarrassed about. I can't simply tell myself that "we're having fun, it's all good" without thinking about the erosion of trust that casual sex does.

    smartmoney saidIf you spend several months with a dumb muscle twink and figure out you need an LTR, chances are you are too shallow and self involved for any sort of relationship beyond banging a dumb muscle twink.


    If you're single, looking for an LTR, but haven't found anyone suitable after dating 4 LTR-minded guys over 3 years, and this superhot bimbo comes along, are you not going to take a little detour and see if there's more to him than meets the eye? lol
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  • stratavos

    Posts: 1867

    Nov 10, 2014 6:12 PM GMT
    from what I gathered from your Posting TC... you're in the turmoil of weather you should continue a FWB with this person, after witnessing may others who are in LTRs end "tragically".

    (feel free to correct me)

    Im' still friends with some of my FWB's and one of them I was about to ask to be steady with me, but... he found a relationship and announced to me that he was being serious with the other guy when I was ready to pose the question.

    if your goal is a long term relationship, it's perfectly fine to be in a FWB situation, but over time you'll need to lay the foundation for it to be more serious (should you want that with that person still).
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    Nov 10, 2014 7:29 PM GMT
    Dating costs money. A friend with benefits requires no dinner and movie just an itch that needs scratching.
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  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 10, 2014 8:02 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidDating costs money. A friend with benefits requires no dinner and movie just an itch that needs scratching.

    Whattaya think anti itch ointment grows on trees, or something???icon_neutral.gif
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    Nov 10, 2014 11:12 PM GMT
    Dating = Potential to be boyfriend, in a long term loving relationship.

    FWB = Just hot sex and quick fuck with no emotional commitment. (I don't think I can do this, not on a long-term thing. If I sleep with you, I have to like you first).

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  • Bowyn_Aerrow

    Posts: 357

    Nov 10, 2014 11:22 PM GMT
    You're 26 I have no doubt that you really don't know how this whole 'life' thing works in general.

    So no one can expect you to have the hard won lessons of having done the long haul relationship and have a real clue as to what to expect.

    Plenty of people who have been down that road a few times are in the same boat. Why? Because how you have a relationship with one person isn't going to be exactly the same with any other individual you have a relationship with.

    FWB means different things to different people. Yes some include cuddling, as it meets needs that people have which doesn't really need to be in the context of a lover's/partners type relationship.

    You
    "It was hot, except that we're both tops, but he made a lot of compromises to keep me happy."


    Well that is a start, now you need to sit down and list the compromises you have made for him.

    If you find you are all happy and willing and able to make compromises for him then chances are rather high that you have a workable potential for something more than FWB.

    You
    Also, by some cosmic joke, most of my relationships happened to be with guys who already know my friends


    Its not a cosmic joke nor accident, the gay community in any place is much smaller than most gays appear to understand. Any given town or city its pretty much going to be that you and whoever else you meet who is gay are going to share common friends.

    Unless one of you are fresh out of the closet, or just landed in that place from some far off exotic place like Boise Idaho.


    I'm afraid that judging if its love or not for me is different than for you. I don't do FWB situations, I just know that for me sex carries more importance to me and leads me down the path of 'love'. To me sex is part of a relationship, the icing on the cake of the relationship. Thus if I want to have sex with a guy I'm already feeling attraction of a more emotional/relationship oriented stance.

    I also have a minor list of other things I am willing to do for/with/to a partner that goes beyond what I am willing and able to do for friends or acquaintances.

    You need to figure out what (if anything) you would do for a partner than just a FWB or just a friend. IDK it could be something as simple as your willingness to stay up until 12 am and have dinner ready for him when he comes home because he works swing and you work days.

    YouThe soul mate stuff can develop over time, like in Beauty and the Beast, or with Drogos and Daenerys (Game of Thrones), or most marriages in human history...


    This is perceptive of you. You seem to have the basic idea which will put you ahead of this game. A lot of people seem to think relationships just happen and that love is all you need.

    You can study up on the stages of love, and communication in a relationship and all of those psychological articles that try to come up with general rules of engagement. While those can be extremely helpful in navigating the uncharted waters of a relationship, the reality is that no two relationships operate exactly the same. Different couples do things differently, and find what works for them.

    In a way you have this easier than this guy. You have little to no expectations, and no reference point to turn to and make hard rules that X needs to happen. He most likely already has this basic assumption that his next love will be like the last, and that his relationship with his next love will follow same patterns.

    It took me three relationships (short ones at that) before I realized that no, what I had with #1 is not what I can have with #2, and #3, and #4... each were unique, the love I felt for each was special and emphasized in other areas because I was loving different individuals.

    He has this Ex - he most likely is going to expect that his next will feel the same as he felt with Ex... It rarely works that way.

    Youbut wants to be "intimate" with me, whatever that means.


    Ask him - chances are very high that his definition of intimacy is different than yours, mine and other people's.

    You are 26 and in that decade of life I call 'Hell 2.0' Hell 1.0 is also known as puberty. All people in their 20's start off with childish, preconceived notions of what life is as an adult, during our 20's we get our childhood perceptions challenged, and we get new experiences and do totally new things. By the time we hit 30 with a decade of experience we discover we are a bit more realistic, have changed our view points on many issues.

    Experience is best had through trial and error - and trust me, if you are doing it right, there will be lots of error. Don't be discouraged, learn to take the lessons from the errors.

    The only way you can know if this is going to be an LTR (or not) is to try.

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    Nov 13, 2014 1:21 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]aloneintheworld said[/cite]^^Actually I'd like to hear from more people about their thoughts on my approach quoted above. It sounds shallow, but I don't imagine it being much different from how most people decide to meet guys, if they weren't blindsided by love at first sight.

    [quote]
    You must be blind. You are seeing a hot but down-to-earth guy who is attracted to you, likes you enough to cuddle and make you dinner, and accepts sexual compromises because he wants to please you. You find him attractive as well and enjoy his company.
    But you are considering dumping him because he doesn't immediately meet all of your predetermined LTR criteria.
    A bird in the hand...
    Enjoy this relationship for what it has to offer. If it doesn't work out, that's life. But if you insist on nothing less than perfection, expect a perfect spinsterhood in your future.

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    Nov 14, 2014 9:27 AM GMT
    When I was involved in FWB relationships, there was an actual F. We actually liked each other, and enjoyed spending time, not just in bed. That kind of relationship can develop into a LTR if both of you develop stronger feelings for the other. If you're just FBs, your not going to grow into anything else. But, except for arranged marriages or mail-order partners, most people, gay and straight, don't just agree to become a LTR, but fall into LTRs because they develop strong feelings for each other (usually called love) and strong desires to be in each other's company a lot. From what limited info you supplied, it does not seem that you have spent all that much time with this guy, or had much sex, or have any strong desires to be with him. If and when you do (and it's mutual) is the time to think about whether you want to commit to each other. In the meantime, you might just continue what you are doing.
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  • magicjake

    Posts: 31

    Nov 15, 2014 3:16 AM GMT
    Completely agree.

    The key is being with someone you find interesting, share common interests, and have common goals (like both wanting a successful LTR, for example). Sooner or later the "passion" wears off, and when that happens you will STILL find that person interesting and you'll still enjoy doing things together because you have similar interests.
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    Nov 15, 2014 5:16 AM GMT
    As Far as differences go... I think "dating" is a process of meeting and looking for emotional and romantic compatibility. Not to be confused with "hooking up" with is just meeting for the intention of sex.
    "FWB" is someone that you've got compatibility with, just not romantic, but still are into eachother enogh to enjoy sex together. Basically the same as "hooking up" but with more of a frind than a stranger.
    The difference is the search for the emotional/ romantic connection.
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  • slowprogress

    Posts: 43

    Jan 18, 2015 6:53 AM GMT
    Update; we've fooled around a few more times, but haven't again since before the holidays. I was fine with him seeing other guys in between (since I'm always flying around on business and seeing other guys myself), but when I saw the quality of guys he's fooled around with, I couldn't help but be a bit turned off. I'm pretty average looking tbh, thus have always assumed that it's been my personality that's been winning the hot guys, hence the disappointment with his low standards.

    The other reason was I had these internal standards where I'd be ok with 6/10's who are LTR worthy, 8/10's for flings, and 10/10's for hookups, and having accomplished the impossible latter with a gorgeous model on new years, I couldn't go back to fwbs with mere 8/10's lol... the only mountain left to climb now is a long term relationship
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    Jan 19, 2015 10:03 AM GMT
    aloneintheworld saidUpdate; we've fooled around a few more times, but haven't again since before the holidays. I was fine with him seeing other guys in between (since I'm always flying around on business and seeing other guys myself), but when I saw the quality of guys he's fooled around with, I couldn't help but be a bit turned off. I'm pretty average looking tbh, thus have always assumed that it's been my personality that's been winning the hot guys, hence the disappointment with his low standards.

    The other reason was I had these internal standards where I'd be ok with 6/10's who are LTR worthy, 8/10's for flings, and 10/10's for hookups, and having accomplished the impossible latter with a gorgeous model on new years, I couldn't go back to fwbs with mere 8/10's lol... the only mountain left to climb now is a long term relationship

    Seems like that mountain you have left to climb is an Everest, but you have no climbing skills.

    If you judge others by the "quality" of guys they have dated, you are unlikely ever to get past first base in the relationship department. Better to stick with what you are good at - hooking up with 10's. At least until you are too old to snare them, and then you can pay for them.
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