Runners Knee.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2014 2:38 AM GMT
    Hey Everyone,

    Who here has ever had runners knee? i'm pretty sure that's the issue i have right now. I lift heavy on deadlift, squat, and leg press machines. I also run each week, play football, and do stair master ever once in awhile. I know each of these could contribute to runners knee.

    I have had the aches before. Back in the summertime around July. But it went away within a few days. I've been having the issue with this for 2 weeks now. When i sit, squat, or bend my legs at all. It's a sharp pain below my knee and on the side. Sometimes in the morning it hurts to even walk.

    I stopped lifting lower body for a week. And also took down my cardio as well. I ordered a knee brace online too.

    What should i do to help? it's on my right leg only. And i consider that my ''good leg'' which means i step with it more. I'm also flat footed. Is there a certain way i should be walking?


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2014 3:30 AM GMT
    I had "runner's knee" from road biking. Then I stopped for a few years and took up sprinting, and got a herniated L-4 & 5 from it. Then I took up off-road biking and haven't had any problems yet, except for some scratches and a permanently pinched nerve in my neck from a face plant off a big jump.
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    Nov 11, 2014 12:55 PM GMT
    Here are some things you can do: go to a good running shoe store, try on some shoes and have the sales person analyze your gait. They'll tell you what it looks like and what may be contributing to your situation. If you can, invest in a good pair of running shoes. (Never run in cross-trainers or sneakers that aren't truly running shoes.)

    Don't over-train. Mix up your routine. Use an elliptical machine instead of running on a treadmill (treadmills are bad on your joints, it can be a very stiff run.)

    Stretch before and after your leg workouts and try yoga to help with stretching. It's great exercise without the strain of running and lifting, and it complements both.

    Hope this helps.
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    Nov 11, 2014 1:58 PM GMT
    My bad knee required surgery to remove torn cartilage. It was due to all the running in boots and knee-flexing exercises we did in the Army.

    One tell-tale symptom CAN be a bulge behind the knee, known as a Bakers Cyst, which is caused by an accumulation of joint fluid resulting from joint injury. Your best bet is to have it examined, that often includes an initial X-ray, with more sophisticated scans following if the doctors see something. In my case they also used on orthoscope on me as an outpatient procedure, in the 1980s when direct observation hadn't yet been replaced by non-invasive scanning.

    But if you do have torn cartilage, and certain other joint problems, then continued heavy use of the knee will cause further damage. It will NOT cause it to heal on its own, but rather to get worse. That's why a medical evaluation is needed ASAP.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Nov 11, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    OP: Consult a physical therapist. What you're describing is most likely the result of a "body mechanics" issue that might also be compounded by overuse (though you don't indicate what sort of mileage you're doing when you run). It may also be the direct result of lifting too heavy and compromising on good form.

    Sometimes when there is a muscle imbalance or tightness in the hips, hip flexors or glutes, it can cause your knee to pull to the outside when you squat. Even if this is only very slight, it can cause pain around the kneecap where you are describing.

    My advice would be to take a break for a few days, consult a PT and see if the real vector of your problem lies in your hips. Often a series of stretches and other exercises to work out the imbalances will fix the issue.
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    Nov 11, 2014 5:27 PM GMT
    DanOmatic saidOP: Consult a physical therapist. What you're describing is most likely the result of a "body mechanics" issue that might also be compounded by overuse (though you don't indicate what sort of mileage you're doing when you run). It may also be the direct result of lifting too heavy and compromising on good form.

    Sometimes when there is a muscle imbalance or tightness in the hips, hip flexors or glutes, it can cause your knee to pull to the outside when you squat. Even if this is only very slight, it can cause pain around the kneecap where you are describing.

    My advice would be to take a break for a few days, consult a PT and see if the real vector of your problem lies in your hips. Often a series of stretches and other exercises to work out the imbalances will fix the issue.


    He hit it on the head. No one here can tell you exactly what's wrong nor how to fix it. Could be a myriad of things. Go see a good physical therapist and they can pinpoint if it's muscle imbalance(and which muscle), misfiring of kinetic chain, a cartilage issue, etc.
    Often times it's the glute medius... Your ass muscles icon_smile.gif
  • FriscoJansen

    Posts: 2552

    Nov 11, 2014 5:32 PM GMT
    I urge you to invest in a pair of barefoot running shoes as a solution to the pain your experiencing upon training.

    I was developing the pain as well a couple of summers ago from my constant running and running downhill as well took the main toll on my knees. What I did was I bought those Adidas toe shoes and I haven't had any pain in my knees since. There were times when I first started that I used my regular running shoes and I started to feel the slight discomfort again but when I put the barefoot running shoes on the next day...I experienced no pain at all! And like I said I haven't had any of that pain since and that was 2 or 3 years ago.

    So get any type of barefoot shoes really which are going to have a very thin sole and it's intent is to redirect the foot strike and take it off of the knees. I seem to ram my foot into everything in the house too in these shoes and ouch! Just be careful too with your ankle placement while training if you hike or run outdoors in heavy terrain which I always have to be aware of when I'm hiking so I don't bend it in the wrong direction which makes that easier to do since they are so lightweight. I could hit a rock and...icon_surprised.gif
  • BuggEyedSprit...

    Posts: 920

    Nov 11, 2014 6:50 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI had "runner's knee" from road biking. Then I stopped for a few years and took up sprinting, and got a herniated L-4 & 5 from it. Then I took up off-road biking and haven't had any problems yet, except for some scratches and a permanently pinched nerve in my neck from a face plant off a big jump.


    What was the 'face plant''s name?icon_eek.gif
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Nov 11, 2014 7:00 PM GMT
    FriscoJansen saidI urge you to invest in a pair of barefoot running shoes as a solution to the pain your experiencing upon training.

    I was developing the pain as well a couple of summers ago from my constant running and running downhill as well took the main toll on my knees. What I did was I bought those Adidas toe shoes and I haven't had any pain in my knees since. There were times when I first started that I used my regular running shoes and I started to feel the slight discomfort again but when I put the barefoot running shoes on the next day...I experienced no pain at all! And like I said I haven't had any of that pain since and that was 2 or 3 years ago.

    So get any type of barefoot shoes really which are going to have a very thin sole and it's intent is to redirect the foot strike and take it off of the knees. I seem to ram my foot into everything in the house too in these shoes and ouch! Just be careful too with your ankle placement while training if you hike or run outdoors in heavy terrain which I always have to be aware of when I'm hiking so I don't bend it in the wrong direction which makes that easier to do since they are so lightweight. I could hit a rock and...icon_surprised.gif


    Barefoot, or barefoot-like running was a big trend a couple of years ago--until people started developing Achilles/Calf/Plantar issues. Low or no-drop shoes put an extraordinary load on the calf, which in turn affects the Achilles and the Plantar Fascia. It works for some people, but if it's something you want to try, proceed CAUTIOUSLY.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2014 8:36 PM GMT
    I've had variable knee issue problems for the past few months, and it was verified his runners knee… they basically prescribed exercises for supportive lateral muscle tissue, as well as a lot of stretching. I primarily notice it when going upstairs and occasionally if I run to catch a bus or something like that.

    Definitely see a physical therapist and try and follow the regiment they set. I'm not nearly as consistent with it as it should be… But I'm trying. icon_biggrin.gif

    (if it hurt more, or more consistently… I'd probably be more aggressive about the exercises.)
  • Ironman4U

    Posts: 738

    Nov 12, 2014 1:40 AM GMT
    Here's an article on runner's knee that might help:

    http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/to-relieve-runners-knee-strengthen-your-hips?adbid=10152412951741987&adbpl=fb&adbpr=9815486986&cid=social35417117

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    Nov 12, 2014 2:16 AM GMT
    DanOmatic saidOP: Consult a physical therapist.

    Or, if there has ever been any specific injury or pain, consult an othopedic surgeon. If there have been any ligament or meniscal tears, only a surgeon can repair them. No amount of PT will.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Nov 12, 2014 6:29 AM GMT
    Hi,
    Get orthotics and also look on YouTube about how to reset the knee!
    It worksicon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif

    Also, I'd take a good quality fish oil supplementicon_idea.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 12, 2014 4:23 PM GMT
    I should also mention that before I needed knee cartilage surgery in the late 1980s that I mentioned above, about 10 years earlier I developed knee pain when I began using a new pair of Nike runners. I read up on the issue and determined I might be having a pronation problem with that shoe. So I bought a pair from another company, I believe it was New Balance (what I wear today), and the problem cleared right up.
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    Nov 12, 2014 5:18 PM GMT
    I'd recommend going to see a sports medicine doctor.

    In my own experience, I've found that front foot running eases the stress on my knees (I have a previous left knee injury) compared to heel-first running. However, that just moves the stress to the calves. Therefore, I do both front and mid-foot running to balance the placement of the stress. Just a warning: our calves aren't used to that much stress so you need to build up gradually.

    I don't know if this will help you since I'm not flat-footed. Hope you get better soon!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 13, 2014 8:20 PM GMT
    Thank you everyone for the advice!!!! i greatly appreciate it icon_smile.gif

    I'm currently wearing a knee brace. And taking it easy for today. No lower body workouts or cardio for a few days. Also did some light runners knee stretches too. Not sure if they have helped or not yet. But we will see in time.

    I also might invest in better workout shoes. The ones i always wear seem to wear out easily. So i can see how that could be a factor.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Nov 21, 2014 8:38 AM GMT
    MikemikeMike saidHi,
    Get orthotics and also look on YouTube about how to reset the knee!
    It worksicon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif

    Also, I'd take a good quality fish oil supplementicon_idea.gif


    Did you try the above??? Reset the knee?
  • Bowyn_Aerrow

    Posts: 357

    Nov 21, 2014 1:38 PM GMT
    Sounds like a torn meniscus to me....

    ...or a torn ligament...

    ....or your blinker fluid is running low....icon_lol.gif

    Truth is you cannot self diagnose a joint injury, not without imaging to check to see what is going on. you need a look see at everything in the knee. Unless you have x-ray and MRI machines in your garage the only place I know you can get those most needed images taken, and interpreted is through a doctor.

    The Knee is a complex joint, even though it is a simple hinge joint. Its complexity is largely due to it carrying all of the weight that is above your knees, and your leg muscles and tendons and ligaments all tend to meet at the knee from both upper and lower leg.

    The shape of the joint with its pads for shock absorbing allows for a lot of interesting mechanical problems to potentially happen.

    I know that a torn meniscus will not heal if you are over 25 years of age. I know this because I tore both medial menisci in both knees. The right one I waited nearly three years to see a doctor because I decided to self diagnose, which one of the things I called it for a time was 'runner's knee'.

    That waiting period I didn't slow down with physical activities, so not only did I have a torn meniscus, I also did secondary and tertiary damage. The meniscus most likely tore a little more and a little bit more over the years I self doctored.

    I was young and stupid and now pay the price. This is a mistake I made only once, when the left knee tore I was in the doctors office the following week.

    Between now and the time you see doctor, I strongly recommend you do only seated exercises that work the upper body. I also suggest you stay off your feet as much as possible, any walking, standing, squatting, etc can potentially do more damage.

    If it is a meniscus issue, I can tell you that the new procedure to repair and or shave it down is real easy, out patient procedure. When I got my left done, I was up and walking on that leg without a crutch or a cane that very day.

    Since you already workout, PT will be a breeze. and PT will insist on working both your leg muscles to tighten up and provide the knees muscular support.


    My right was a bit more complicated since I had done more damage and I was on crutches for a month, followed by a cane for the next decade.... Granted I only use the cane sporadically, mostly in winter because of the secondary joint damage and arthritis.

    So you can see how waiting on this can have long term consequences.





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    Nov 28, 2014 3:17 PM GMT
    FriscoJansen saidI urge you to invest in a pair of barefoot running shoes as a solution to the pain your experiencing upon training.

    I was developing the pain as well a couple of summers ago from my constant running and running downhill as well took the main toll on my knees. What I did was I bought those Adidas toe shoes and I haven't had any pain in my knees since. There were times when I first started that I used my regular running shoes and I started to feel the slight discomfort again but when I put the barefoot running shoes on the next day...I experienced no pain at all! And like I said I haven't had any of that pain since and that was 2 or 3 years ago.



    They have no heel.
    Don't elevate the heel and your gait not likely transfer too much weight to the knee?