The truth about many gays in the closet

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 14, 2014 2:40 PM GMT
    Is that people around you probably know.
    There are so many men that are obviously gay and people around them know, yet they choose to be "in the closet". Theres this guy, slightly effeminate, around 30, never had girlfriends, you never see him with guy friends, everyone around him knows he's gay (they don't care) yet the guy wont come out. This is a wake up call: if your an adult, never have girlfriends and have mannerisms people are gonna assume you're gay anyways so you might as well come out save yourself the trouble.

    Note it's not me assuming shit, it's the regular random people from work, school, neighborhood that will.
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:23 PM GMT
    Or he could be asexual. Or he could be bi. Or he could be oblivious to his own sexuality.
    Or he could be an effeminate straight man who's secretly got a bdsm mistress he serves.
    You don't know and it's really none of your business.
    His sexuality is just that, his. And no one else gets to define it for him or tell him what to do with it.

    I wasn't 'obviously gay' but I was in denial. Someone else telling me I was gay before I was ready to know it for myself would NOT have been helpful. People in the closet deserve compassion and respect, just like everyone else.
  • HndsmKansan

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    Nov 14, 2014 3:32 PM GMT
    My issue is I'm having to work to remain empathetic toward others who choose to be "discreet". Had a very nice dentist from Oklahoma City come up for a date a few weeks ago, very nice looking, probably more interested in sex than serious dating, but of course he stressed he's "discreet" explaining that in "red state" Oklahoma, he doesn't want to be known as the "gay dentist" in OKC... meaning somehow he will be defined by his sexuality...

    I personally find that unhealthy, I enjoy who I am and what I do for a living. People know, sure, but I'm not worried about it. I have a healthy self concept and if someone wants to remain "discreet" (and he is older, in his early 50's), I'm challenged a bit on the empathetic side, but he has his own life I suppose.
    Probably no second date...lol
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:35 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi saidOr he could be asexual. Or he could be bi. Or he could be oblivious to his own sexuality.
    Or he could be an effeminate straight man who's secretly got a bdsm mistress he serves.
    You don't know and it's really none of your business.
    His sexuality is just that, his. And no one else gets to define it for him or tell him what to do with it.


    The fact sexual preference shouldn't be anyone else's business or that there are non-gay people that might also fit the criteria is not important here since this thread is directed to gay men in the closet only.
    These gay men happen to be in the closet because they're scared of what people will say or think - well people will always talk and assume and they're already doing it so you might as well come out. As simple as that.
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:40 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidMy issue is I'm having to work to remain empathetic toward others who choose to be "discreet". Had a very nice dentist from Oklahoma City come up for a date a few weeks ago, very nice looking, probably more interested in sex than serious dating, but of course he stressed he's "discreet" explaining that in "red state" Oklahoma, he doesn't want to be known as the "gay dentist" in OKC... meaning somehow he will be defined by his sexuality...

    I personally find that unhealthy, I enjoy who I am and what I do for a living. People know, sure, but I'm not worried about it. I have a healthy self concept and if someone wants to remain "discreet" (and he is older, in his early 50's), I'm challenged a bit on the empathetic side, but he has his own life I suppose.
    Probably no second date...lol


    Yeah it depends on how that person is and where they live. It took me a while but now I understand in conservative countries or states the pressure to be out might be overwhelming, so Im not saying its healthy but I do understand some choose to be in the closet.

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    Nov 14, 2014 3:41 PM GMT
    David3K said
    Wyndahoi saidOr he could be asexual. Or he could be bi. Or he could be oblivious to his own sexuality.
    Or he could be an effeminate straight man who's secretly got a bdsm mistress he serves.
    You don't know and it's really none of your business.
    His sexuality is just that, his. And no one else gets to define it for him or tell him what to do with it.


    The fact sexual preference shouldn't be anyone else's business or that there are non-gay people that might also fit the criteria is not important here since this thread is directed to gay men in the closet only.
    These gay men happen to be in the closet because they're scared of what people will say or think - well people will always talk and assume and they're already doing it so you might as well come out. As simple as that.


    You entirely missed the point- you DON'T know if they are gay or not. And even if he is, when and how he comes out is none of your business.
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:45 PM GMT
    Why this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" Sometimes I think it's a manifestation of "misery loves company;" people in happy relationships or secure in themselves have no need to inquire into, let alone control other peoples' lives.
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:48 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi said
    David3K said
    Wyndahoi saidOr he could be asexual. Or he could be bi. Or he could be oblivious to his own sexuality.
    Or he could be an effeminate straight man who's secretly got a bdsm mistress he serves.
    You don't know and it's really none of your business.
    His sexuality is just that, his. And no one else gets to define it for him or tell him what to do with it.


    The fact sexual preference shouldn't be anyone else's business or that there are non-gay people that might also fit the criteria is not important here since this thread is directed to gay men in the closet only.
    These gay men happen to be in the closet because they're scared of what people will say or think - well people will always talk and assume and they're already doing it so you might as well come out. As simple as that.


    You entirely missed the point- you DON'T know if they are gay or not. And even if he is, when and how he comes out is none of your business.


    How stupid can you be? You're the one that don't get it.
    This thread is not about guessing who is gay or not. This thread is about how people will always talk and assume that single men with mannerisms are gay (whether they're gay or not is not important) so if you're gay and in the closet because you're too scared of people knowing, well, they already assume you are so come out already.
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:54 PM GMT
    lol I love closeted ppl Its like I'm a killer whale at sea world and they are watching me swimming around elegantly through perspex wishing they could be me…..Actually that analogy doesn't work because killer whales are in captivity……what if we thought we were out but there was an even bigger closet to come out of?…..O.o
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    Nov 14, 2014 3:54 PM GMT
    There are lots of reasons why people stay in the closet. As long those people are not hurting anyone while being in the closet, I'm fine with how they have it with their own speed.
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    Nov 14, 2014 4:06 PM GMT
    Riddle me this; marriage is said not to be able to change your life, will not make you a better man. Unless the husband has lots of money why are we so quick to get into a relationship of any type. If you have no boy friend, it dosnt matter what you do. So stay in the closet.

    More acceptance, equality; it happened relatively quick, that gay men have no idea where it came from or exactly what it is. but its here.

    Yes; marriage equality is the norm in the US but gay men in their 30's or > have no husband to husband skills. It will take a generation or two to dissipate the damage that has been done to us.
  • a303guy

    Posts: 829

    Nov 14, 2014 4:11 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidMy issue is I'm having to work to remain empathetic toward others who choose to be "discreet". Had a very nice dentist from Oklahoma City come up for a date a few weeks ago, very nice looking, probably more interested in sex than serious dating, but of course he stressed he's "discreet" explaining that in "red state" Oklahoma, he doesn't want to be known as the "gay dentist" in OKC... meaning somehow he will be defined by his sexuality...

    I personally find that unhealthy, I enjoy who I am and what I do for a living. People know, sure, but I'm not worried about it. I have a healthy self concept and if someone wants to remain "discreet" (and he is older, in his early 50's), I'm challenged a bit on the empathetic side, but he has his own life I suppose.
    Probably no second date...lol


    Very well said. I'm in very much the same place - I've done the hard work, and am finally in a place where I'm comfortable with what and who I am, and no longer carry shame about it. Men, regardless of age, who still feel the need to be 'discreet' which is just a whitewashed word for being ashamed of who they are, are guys that I just can't spend time with. That said, I also understand and respect that everyone has their own timeline of when they will become comfortable with who and what they are, and it's not our job to rush that process. Be a leader, and show them that its OK on this side of the fence? Certainly. But I'm not going to beat them over the head with it. But they can't expect me to date them either.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Nov 14, 2014 4:32 PM GMT
    I think the primary reasons for older guys staying in the closet is the same that put them there to begin with. Fear of job loss or discrimination. Fear of loss of love of friends or family. Fear of embarrassment that they've been so timid for so long. And lied. Those are old habits to break and if they don't see a reason to take the risk, they just don't. I bet they would given a reason. Like OKC dentist. But I agree. They'd be happier if they did. It just looks different from the other side. Remember?
  • Destinharbor

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    Nov 14, 2014 4:43 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidWhy this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" Sometimes I think it's a manifestation of "misery loves company;" people in happy relationships or secure in themselves have no need to inquire into, let alone control other peoples' lives.

    Now there's Mr Republican. Pretends generosity but still attacks and rumors. And tell me, Mr GOP, why do you say Chelsea is a bearded dyke? Code word to your brethren about Hillary? Get that from FOX? Or Rush?
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    Nov 14, 2014 4:49 PM GMT
    a303guy said
    HndsmKansan saidMy issue is I'm having to work to remain empathetic toward others who choose to be "discreet". Had a very nice dentist from Oklahoma City come up for a date a few weeks ago, very nice looking, probably more interested in sex than serious dating, but of course he stressed he's "discreet" explaining that in "red state" Oklahoma, he doesn't want to be known as the "gay dentist" in OKC... meaning somehow he will be defined by his sexuality...

    I personally find that unhealthy, I enjoy who I am and what I do for a living. People know, sure, but I'm not worried about it. I have a healthy self concept and if someone wants to remain "discreet" (and he is older, in his early 50's), I'm challenged a bit on the empathetic side, but he has his own life I suppose.
    Probably no second date...lol


    Very well said. I'm in very much the same place - I've done the hard work, and am finally in a place where I'm comfortable with what and who I am, and no longer carry shame about it. Men, regardless of age, who still feel the need to be 'discreet' which is just a whitewashed word for being ashamed of who they are, are guys that I just can't spend time with. That said, I also understand and respect that everyone has their own timeline of when they will become comfortable with who and what they are, and it's not our job to rush that process. Be a leader, and show them that its OK on this side of the fence? Certainly. But I'm not going to beat them over the head with it. But they can't expect me to date them either.


    Agreed, it wasn't until I could accept myself and not give a flying fuck what others thought was I able to leave the closet. However, I do realize there are others in other countries where being discreet is a life or death proposition.

    And no I won't date anyone who is in the closet either.

    As far as work goes, I feel coworkers do not need to know. Luckily, I'm divorced from a woman and have an older child so they don't necessarily question my status.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 14, 2014 4:51 PM GMT
    you cant date a person in the closet.
    call it what you want, do it often, have fun. It is not a date if they can never share their life with you.
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    Nov 14, 2014 4:56 PM GMT
    pellaz saidyou cant date a person in the closet.
    call it what you want, do it often, have fun. It is not a date if they can never share their life with you.


    It's akin to being the other woman.
  • Destinharbor

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    Nov 14, 2014 5:00 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    pellaz saidyou cant date a person in the closet.
    call it what you want, do it often, have fun. It is not a date if they can never share their life with you.


    It's akin to being the other woman.

    I don't see it that way. Just ask if he fell in love, would he come out of the closet? Though it certainly would make dating difficult. I know I'd never want to go partially back in that closet which is what it would feel like.
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    Nov 14, 2014 5:22 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi saidOr he could be asexual. Or he could be bi. Or he could be oblivious to his own sexuality.
    Or he could be an effeminate straight man who's secretly got a bdsm mistress he serves.
    You don't know and it's really none of your business.
    His sexuality is just that, his. And no one else gets to define it for him or tell him what to do with it.

    I wasn't 'obviously gay' but I was in denial. Someone else telling me I was gay before I was ready to know it for myself would NOT have been helpful. People in the closet deserve compassion and respect, just like everyone else.


    I tend to agree with that in theory and certainly no one should have to wear their sexuality on their sleeve but in practice things can get creepy.

    Not long ago I had a doctor during a regular visit come on to me from within his closet. I still don't know whether to be flattered or creeped out. He had his obviously gay assistant in the office at the time and other people within ear shot. On leaving, I'm getting out of the chair and just stand up when he holds his hand out to shake my hand goodbye.

    So of course I go to shake his hand but instead of a normal handshake that you'd expect, he pulls my hand down directly towards his crotch. I think I kept a str8 face the whole time but I was stunned. I'm pretty sure he owes me dinner. In a very good restaurant. Just for that.

    And then he did it again on our last visit only not as obviously. Just a slight pull, I guess to let me know that he's still interested?

    I have no idea what to do with that. He seems a nice enough guy, smart guy and I tend to like smart people. He's not totally my type but a nice looking man in fairly good shape. Seems to have a good heart by how he cares for his patients. I assume he's gotta big dick if he keeps pulling my hand down towards it. And, he's a doctor. Marrying one is better than being one. I could be his receptionist so I wouldn't have to deal with all the ick.

    But that closet thing freaks me out. All he had to do was verbalize his intention and we might be dating right now. I get that he's my generation and many of us grew up in the closet. I've been out since my very early 20s but I know some guys don't come out until much later. But I just don't know how I feel about it. I'm certainly not attracted by screaming queens but nor do I care to live a discreet life.

    At the very least, the closet adds an unnecessary complication. It could be that we would make a happy couple. But I'm not going to step back into the closet for love.
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    Nov 14, 2014 5:23 PM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    MGINSD saidWhy this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" Sometimes I think it's a manifestation of "misery loves company;" people in happy relationships or secure in themselves have no need to inquire into, let alone control other peoples' lives.

    Now there's Mr Republican. Pretends generosity but still attacks and rumors. And tell me, Mr GOP, why do you say Chelsea is a bearded dyke? Code word to your brethren about Hillary? Get that from FOX? Or Rush?


    You obviously missed the reference, or don't know/recall it. Some people, many gays among them, took to calling the adolescent Chelsea ugly when Bill entered the WH, and "leave Chelsea alone!" was an equally gay-originated riposte to those mean-spirited attacks. I'll leave it at that.
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    Nov 14, 2014 5:44 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi said...

    People in the closet deserve compassion and respect, just like everyone else.


    What they don't deserve is to expect someone who is out or comfortable with themselves to date them or to string along someone with the possibility that they will come out.

    I won't keep someone company in their closet. Either be out already or move along.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 14, 2014 5:48 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]David3K said[/cite]Is that people around you probably know.
    There are so many men that are obviously gay and people around them know, yet they choose to be "in the closet". Theres this guy, slightly effeminate, around 30, never had girlfriends, you never see him with guy friends, everyone around him knows he's gay (they don't care) yet the guy wont come out. This is a wake up call: if your an adult, never have girlfriends and have mannerisms people are gonna assume you're gay anyways so you might as well come out save yourself

    I have met guys that simply don't want to be gay. Some don't want to have a penis. Its not that much difference from people that don't want to be fat or skinny. It some cases even if there is a way to change there is no motivation to change since that is not who they believe they are.
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    Nov 14, 2014 6:19 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidWhy this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" Sometimes I think it's a manifestation of "misery loves company;" people in happy relationships or secure in themselves have no need to inquire into, let alone control other peoples' lives.


    I think you've hit the nail on the head, and that the obsession with tying to shame gay men out of the closet ultimately accomplishes nothing other than making those who obsess more and more bitter. Live and let live is my motto on this issue.
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    Nov 14, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
    Who gives a fuck?
  • Destinharbor

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    Nov 14, 2014 6:40 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Destinharbor said
    MGINSD saidWhy this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" Sometimes I think it's a manifestation of "misery loves company;" people in happy relationships or secure in themselves have no need to inquire into, let alone control other peoples' lives.

    Now there's Mr Republican. Pretends generosity but still attacks and rumors. And tell me, Mr GOP, why do you say Chelsea is a bearded dyke? Code word to your brethren about Hillary? Get that from FOX? Or Rush?


    You obviously missed the reference, or don't know/recall it. Some people, many gays among them, took to calling the adolescent Chelsea ugly when Bill entered the WH, and "leave Chelsea alone!" was an equally gay-originated riposte to those mean-spirited attacks. I'll leave it at that.

    No, I don't think that's what you said or meant. "Why this obsession among so many gays about our closeted counterparts? As with Chelsea Clinton, shouldn't we just "leave them alone?" I'll leave it at that.