Does opposing the current Democrats in power actually help moderate social positions including gay rights?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2014 5:47 PM GMT
    From numerous polls and the election, mainstream opinion opposes the positions of the current “progressive” Democrats who are in charge (Obama, Reid, Pelosi). In the long run, if this wing of the Democratic Party looses favor, the more moderate Democrats, sometimes called Blue Dogs, who support limited government, limited taxes, and a better business climate will gain the power they lost a few years ago. If that happens, the Democrats will again appeal to the moderates or independents. That will, in turn, exert pressure on the Republican Party to support moderate instead of socially conservative positions if they want to retain the moderates or independents supporting the Republican Party. The battle would be for the center, and the more extreme positions of both parties would have diminished influence.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 20, 2014 8:33 PM GMT
    Shouldn't log cabin republicans be doing anything to push the republicans to the center? Most of you seem like right wing extremists on issues such as immigration, energy, contraceptives, etc.

    Also, republican presidents never limit government. They make war against their own citizens and have unconstitutional ideologies.
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    Nov 20, 2014 8:41 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidShouldn't log cabin republicans be doing anything to push the republicans to the center? Most of you seem like right wing extremists on issues such as immigration, energy, contraceptives, etc.

    Also, republican presidents never limit government. They make war against their own citizens and have unconstitutional ideologies.

    IMO the best way to push the Republican Party towards the center is the fear of them losing moderates and independents and becoming a fringe party of the far right and never win elections. The Democratic Party moving towards the center is the best way to motivate them.

    That "most of you..." comment reflects ignorance of the many moderates on various issues.
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    Nov 20, 2014 8:52 PM GMT
    I think, socal, the problem is that the very far right n religious vastly outnumbers the far left in your country. Perhaps trying to education the living daylights out of that far right huge fringe (fringe? Heck it's half the pillow!) would help. To begin with, keep religiosity out of the schools. Claiming the earth is only 5-6 thousand years old and similar nonsense doesn't help.


  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Nov 20, 2014 8:52 PM GMT
    No, I don't think it will. While more mainstream Republicans took this election partially by limiting the crazy factor, they show no propensity to govern. Just look at what their #1 priority was. An oil pipeline? And now on immigration reform, they seem genuinely pleased to have Obama take the lead so all they have to do is all they ever did, bitch about Obama. Even though what he seems about to do is really nothing more than what Bush 1 and Reagan did. The Republican strategy (as represented so well by SB here) is to clog the airwaves with negative about Obama and Pelosi whether there's any truth to it or not and hope, as did happen, that the Dems get dispirited and actually believe their propaganda and stay home on election day. The masses are easily misled.
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    Nov 20, 2014 9:13 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidNo, I don't think it will. While more mainstream Republicans took this election partially by limiting the crazy factor, they show no propensity to govern. Just look at what their #1 priority was. An oil pipeline? And now on immigration reform, they seem genuinely pleased to have Obama take the lead so all they have to do is all they ever did, bitch about Obama. Even though what he seems about to do is really nothing more than what Bush 1 and Reagan did. The Republican strategy (as represented so well by SB here) is to clog the airwaves with negative about Obama and Pelosi whether there's any truth to it or not and hope, as did happen, that the Dems get dispirited and actually believe their propaganda and stay home on election day. The masses are easily misled.


    "Obama and Pelosi"

    Let's not forget Harry Reid.
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    Nov 21, 2014 12:19 AM GMT
    Republicans are now less moderate and more hysterical than at any time in their history.

    Ted Cruz is the future of the Republican party...and the timid gay Republicans will gladly march him into power.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Nov 21, 2014 8:09 AM GMT
    i think both parties are lousy
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    Nov 21, 2014 3:19 PM GMT
    Any interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 21, 2014 5:02 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidAny interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?

    Sure, why don't we think of an issue that democrats and republicans can compromise on:

    immigration reform no, republicans will shut down the government.

    taxes no, republicans will shut down the government.

    energy no, republicans will shut down the government.

    welfare no, republicans will shut down the government.

    gay rights no, the republicans will shut down the government.icon_sad.gif

    Pot legalization .... This one is maybe. I had at least one republican also recommend shrooms!

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    Nov 21, 2014 5:20 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    socalfitness saidAny interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?

    Sure, why don't we think of an issue that democrats and republicans can compromise on:

    immigration reform no, republicans will shut down the government.

    taxes no, republicans will shut down the government.

    energy no, republicans will shut down the government.

    welfare no, republicans will shut down the government.

    gay rights no, the republicans will shut down the government.icon_sad.gif

    Pot legalization .... This one is maybe. I had at least one republican also recommend shrooms!

    The topic of the thread is not advanced by your simplistic points that are not correct. But just to indulge you briefly - the Republicans are not interested in shutting down the Govt. Take the immigration issue:

    a. The issue most Republicans and some Democrats have is not the policy per se, but how it is being attempted, illegally in the view of many.

    b. Many Republicans have supported legalization with some requirements but only after securing the border. Reason is to prevent more floods of people crossing the border illegally. Don't try to say the border is secure with all the kids crossing.

    c. Although the House did not consider the bill passed by the Senate, the Senate did not consider bills passed by the House aimed at securing the border. One such bill: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/house-border-bill/ Things are not as one-sided as you would like to assume.
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    Nov 21, 2014 5:37 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    socalfitness saidAny interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?

    Sure, why don't we think of an issue that democrats and republicans can compromise on:

    immigration reform no, republicans will shut down the government.

    taxes no, republicans will shut down the government.

    energy no, republicans will shut down the government.

    welfare no, republicans will shut down the government.

    gay rights no, the republicans will shut down the government.icon_sad.gif

    Pot legalization .... This one is maybe. I had at least one republican also recommend shrooms!



    Simplistic yet TRUE.

    It may be more accurate to say that it's not all Republicans who want to shut down the government...but it is true that ALL THE REPUBLICANS WHO CONTROL THE REPUBLICAN PARTY want to shut down the government whenever they are faced with a decision demanding compromise.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 21, 2014 5:44 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HottJoe said
    socalfitness saidAny interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?

    Sure, why don't we think of an issue that democrats and republicans can compromise on:

    immigration reform no, republicans will shut down the government.

    taxes no, republicans will shut down the government.

    energy no, republicans will shut down the government.

    welfare no, republicans will shut down the government.

    gay rights no, the republicans will shut down the government.icon_sad.gif

    Pot legalization .... This one is maybe. I had at least one republican also recommend shrooms!

    The topic of the thread is not advanced by your simplistic points that are not correct. But just to indulge you briefly - the Republicans are not interested in shutting down the Govt. Take the immigration issue:

    a. The issue most Republicans and some Democrats have is not the policy per se, but how it is being attempted, illegally in the view of many.

    b. Many Republicans have supported legalization with some requirements but only after securing the border. Reason is to prevent more floods of people crossing the border illegally. Don't try to say the border is secure with all the kids crossing.

    c. Although the House did not consider the bill passed by the Senate, the Senate did not consider bills passed by the House aimed at securing the border. One such bill: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/house-border-bill/ Things are not as one-sided as you would like to assume.

    Obama acted lawfully. You're either misinformed or lying.

    I'm guessing you're lying, since you're also being disingenuous about republican opposition on this issue. George Bush couldn't even rally support from his own party on common sense immigration reform. The republicans have taken a do-nothing stand on this issue for longer than Obama has been around, and they are now lying about it now.

    As for Bush's attempt, Obama crossed party lines and supported Bush when he was a senator. Immigration reform has always been imperative for Obama. It's only republicans that stand in the way. They have stood in the way of everything Obama has done.

    They have tried to call Obama unconstitutional on every issue, but they can't get their day in court because Obama follows the law.

    All the scandals republicans have inflated about Obamacare, Solyndra, Benghazi, and the list goes on have amounted to nothing but loud talking and posturing. The republicans literally must be brainless because they are batting zero, and they are too stupid to realize it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 21, 2014 5:57 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidObama acted lawfully. You're either misinformed or lying.

    Either you don't get your information from multiple sources or you're not able to process the information. The fact is many legal experts have stated his actions violate the Constitution, acting against the will of Congress. (Completely different situation with Bush and Reagan.) Some have defended Obama and state he did act lawfully.

    Either way, calling me a liar because I have a different viewpoint than you illustrates your inability to understand the legitimacy of dissenting viewpoints. You really don't appear to have the intellectual capability to participate in discussing complex issues. Probably won't humor you further.

    BTW - your stating the Republicans are batting zero just shows how dim you really are. Look at the past election. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 21, 2014 5:59 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    socalfitness saidAny interest in having a serious discussion about the thread topic versus complaining?

    Sure, why don't we think of an issue that democrats and republicans can compromise on:

    immigration reform no, republicans will shut down the government.

    taxes no, republicans will shut down the government.

    energy no, republicans will shut down the government.

    welfare no, republicans will shut down the government.

    gay rights no, the republicans will shut down the government.icon_sad.gif

    Pot legalization .... This one is maybe. I had at least one republican also recommend shrooms!



    For you .... of course. Thought it might reign in your propensity for insults and name calling. Then and only then might you get someone to listen to your side.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 21, 2014 6:07 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HottJoe saidObama acted lawfully. You're either misinformed or lying.

    Either you don't get your information from multiple sources or you're not able to process the information. The fact is many legal experts have stated his actions violate the Constitution, acting against the will of Congress. (Completely different situation with Bush and Reagan.) Some have defended Obama and state he did act lawfully.

    Either way, calling my a liar because I have a different viewpoint than you illustrates your inability to understand the legitimacy of dissenting viewpoints. You really don't appear to have the intellectual capability to participate in discussing complex issues. Probably won't humor you further.

    BTW - your stating the Republicans are batting zero just shows how dim you really are. Look at the past election. icon_biggrin.gif

    They can get people elected, but they can't get laws passed, which is why I say they're batting zero.

    How is your argument any more sophisticated? You say Obama acted unlawfully, but you're wrong and you're lying.

    If he acted unlawfully, then it would be actual news and not just Faux News propaganda.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 21, 2014 6:15 PM GMT
    The Republicans can stir dissatisfaction. That's easy enough.

    What Republicans find impossible is to deliver governmental policies that people can live with.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 21, 2014 6:24 PM GMT
    socalfitness said... In the long run, if this wing of the Democratic Party looses favor, the more moderate Democrats, sometimes called Blue Dogs ...

    The average American has no long run political thoughts. With the exception of those actually professionally working at the party level.



  • mybud

    Posts: 11835

    Nov 21, 2014 6:54 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidi think both parties are lousy
    Ya right...
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    Nov 21, 2014 6:58 PM GMT
    pellaz said
    socalfitness said... In the long run, if this wing of the Democratic Party looses favor, the more moderate Democrats, sometimes called Blue Dogs ...

    The average American has no long run political thoughts. With the exception of those actually professionally working at the party level.

    "Long run" refers to trends, not political thoughts of individuals.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 21, 2014 7:17 PM GMT
    I don't think socalfitness knows how to move toward the center. He just throws childish temper tantrums at everyone who disagrees with him. Same old Socal!
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Nov 23, 2014 2:50 AM GMT
    tj85016 saidi think both parties are lousy
    That is 100% correct.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Nov 23, 2014 2:53 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidI don't think socalfitness knows how to move toward the center. He just throws childish temper tantrums at everyone who disagrees with him. Same old Socal!
    If anyone throws childish temper tantrums around here it is you MinneapolisMotorMouth. When anyone tries to challenge your loony leftist ideologies you just get all bent out of shape and start spewing out your usual ultra leftist gibberish.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Nov 23, 2014 2:57 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HottJoe saidObama acted lawfully. You're either misinformed or lying.

    Either you don't get your information from multiple sources or you're not able to process the information. The fact is many legal experts have stated his actions violate the Constitution, acting against the will of Congress. (Completely different situation with Bush and Reagan.) Some have defended Obama and state he did act lawfully.

    Either way, calling my a liar because I have a different viewpoint than you illustrates your inability to understand the legitimacy of dissenting viewpoints. You really don't appear to have the intellectual capability to participate in discussing complex issues. Probably won't humor you further.

    BTW - your stating the Republicans are batting zero just shows how dim you really are. Look at the past election. icon_biggrin.gif
    He is a marijuana addict, he can't help himself. That is why he lacks the intellectual capability to properly debate different points of view.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Nov 23, 2014 3:05 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidShouldn't log cabin republicans be doing anything to push the republicans to the center? Most of you seem like right wing extremists on issues such as immigration, energy, contraceptives, etc.

    Also, republican presidents never limit government. They make war against their own citizens and have unconstitutional ideologies.
    And how about the leftist loony federal judges that started ordering forced busing to desegregate public schools in many older northern cities in the 1970s. That just amounts to telling parents where they are going to send their kids to school. Now that is unconstitutional, federal courts stripping parents of their right to send their kids to the schools they want. This just caused most older northern cities to decline even further as more middle class both white and black decamped for the suburbs en masse. Thank both the democratic party and the leftist loonies and their sympathetic federal judges for this horrendous blunder. Now most urban school systems are dysfunctional basket cases.