Creatine Warning

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    Nov 29, 2014 3:42 PM GMT
    I have always been a huge fan of creatine. When I take it I feel like I'm on steroids (not that I would know what that felt like.) However, I recently had my blood work done and my doctor said everything was perfect except for my creatine levels. She asked if I had been taking it and I said yes but never more than the recommended dosage. She was worried it might do permanent damage to my liver so she had me stop taking it and retested me later. Luckily I had no permanent damage to my liver. Take this as a warning. I'll never take it again even though it helped me tremendously in the gym.
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    Nov 29, 2014 5:22 PM GMT
    I've yet to find any evidence of harm from sustained creatine use. No disrespect to you or your doc, but I'm more inclined to be guided by the clinical studies on the matter, which tend to conclude creatine is likely safe when used long-term.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12500988

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10999421

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/creatine/safety/hrb-20059125
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    Nov 29, 2014 6:58 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidI've yet to find any evidence of harm from sustained creatine use. No disrespect to you or your doc, but I'm more inclined to be guided by the clinical studies on the matter, which tend to conclude creatine is likely safe when used long-term.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12500988

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10999421

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/creatine/safety/hrb-20059125



    That's great but blood work doesn't lie. And I'm a HUGE fan of creatine (or was.) And I have always taken the recommended dose. Not once have I taken more than what's suggested on the jar. And before someone suggests it, no my protein powder does not include creatine so it was my sole added source. If I ever take it again, I can assure you I will get frequent blood work done to make sure it's not damaging my liver.
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    Nov 29, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    What sort of damage was your doc referring to? What type of creatine are you taking?
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    Nov 29, 2014 11:08 PM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat sort of damage was your doc referring to? What type of creatine are you taking?


    5500123100b_1374817248.png
    This is the stuff I was taking but I don't know exactly what kind of liver damage she was afraid of me getting.
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    Nov 30, 2014 12:11 AM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    xrichx saidWhat sort of damage was your doc referring to? What type of creatine are you taking?


    < img src="http://cdn.shopclues.com/images/detailed/846/5500123100b_1374817248.png">
    This is the stuff I was taking but I don't know exactly what kind of liver damage she was afraid of me getting.

    I'd ask for more details. As Ex_Mil8 pointed out, creatine has been around for many years and has been proven to be safe to use.

    The creatine might be triggering a symptom of some other health issue that you might be experiencing. So even if you get the green light after the retest, I would ask the doctor why the creatine had a negative impact on you specifically. You'll likely need to be referred to someone that specializes in the liver and digestive system.
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    Nov 30, 2014 2:58 AM GMT
    xrichx said
    Scruffypup said
    xrichx saidWhat sort of damage was your doc referring to? What type of creatine are you taking?


    < img src="http://cdn.shopclues.com/images/detailed/846/5500123100b_1374817248.png">
    This is the stuff I was taking but I don't know exactly what kind of liver damage she was afraid of me getting.

    I'd ask for more details. As Ex_Mil8 pointed out, creatine has been around for many years and has been proven to be safe to use.

    The creatine might be triggering a symptom of some other health issue that you might be experiencing. So even if you get the green light after the retest, I would ask the doctor why the creatine had a negative impact on you specifically. You'll likely need to be referred to someone that specializes in the liver and digestive system.



    It wasn't having any negative impact really. She just pointed out that my creatine levels were high and told me to stop supplementing so she could order new blood work to make sure no permanent damage was done. Luckily my levels returned to normal after I stopped taking it. But I really do miss taking it because nothing has ever helped me in the gym that much.
  • jeepguySD

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    Nov 30, 2014 2:12 PM GMT
    Was your doctor checking creatine or creatinine? There's a difference. Creatinine is a waste product from muscle metabolism. Muscle converts creatine into creatinine.

    The mere fact of lifting heavy will increase one's creatinine level. I see this in my bloodwork, which is monitored because I take a statin to keep my cholesterol under control. My doctor once had me stop lifting for a week just to make sure that my creatinine levels returned to normal.

    Also, my understanding is that creatinine is more indicative of 1. muscle damage (some statins can cause muscle damage, which is why they look for creatinine in the blood when taking a statin), 2. kidney function (the kidneys filter creatinine), not liver function.

    It may be worth digging deeper and asking more questions before you decide to give up a supplement that worked well for you. For sake of full disclosure: I'm not an MD...my degrees are in astronomy, so please don't rely on my word alone.
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    Nov 30, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
    jeepguySD saidWas your doctor checking creatine or creatinine? There's a difference. Creatinine is a waste product from muscle metabolism. Muscle converts creatine into creatinine.

    The mere fact of lifting heavy will increase one's creatinine level. I see this in my bloodwork, which is monitored because I take a statin to keep my cholesterol under control. My doctor one had me stop lifting for a week just to make sure that my creatinine levels returned to normal.

    Also, my understanding is that creatinine is more indicative of 1. muscle (some statins can cause muscle damage, which is why they look for creatinine in the blood), 2. kidney function (the kidneys filter creatinine), not liver function.

    It may be worth digging deeper and asking more questions before you decide to give up a supplement that worked well for you. For sake of full disclosure: I'm not an MD...my degrees are in astronomy, so please don't rely on my word alone.



    I honestly don't know for sure. I could have sworn she said "Creatine" but the two words do sound a lot alike so I'll have to ask her to make sure. But what was suspicious is that the moment I stopped taking the Creatine my blood work returned to normal.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Nov 30, 2014 3:27 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    jeepguySD saidWas your doctor checking creatine or creatinine? There's a difference. Creatinine is a waste product from muscle metabolism. Muscle converts creatine into creatinine.

    The mere fact of lifting heavy will increase one's creatinine level. I see this in my bloodwork, which is monitored because I take a statin to keep my cholesterol under control. My doctor once had me stop lifting for a week just to make sure that my creatinine levels returned to normal.

    Also, my understanding is that creatinine is more indicative of 1. muscle damage (some statins can cause muscle damage, which is why they look for creatinine in the blood), 2. kidney function (the kidneys filter creatinine), not liver function.

    It may be worth digging deeper and asking more questions before you decide to give up a supplement that worked well for you. For sake of full disclosure: I'm not an MD...my degrees are in astronomy, so please don't rely on my word alone.



    I honestly don't know for sure. I could have sworn she said "Creatine" but the two words do sound a lot alike so I'll have to ask her to make sure. But what was suspicious is that the moment I stopped taking the Creatine my blood work returned to normal.


    That's what I would expect. Since muscle converts creatine into creatinine as it recovers, one would expect creatinine levels to decrease if there's less creatine available to be converted.
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    Nov 30, 2014 8:19 PM GMT
    Ask your DR. for a copy of the blood test results/metabolic panel results. Going back a few years even. Researching online you can get an idea of what the heck is going on to help you ask informed questions of your physician.

    Where your ALT and AST levels flagged as high? That's liver enzyme/ muscle break down indicators and can be an indication of liver disease. Not saying that's you but best to be on top of this. My physician is myopic and focuses on one thing and when I look at the print out there have been other things going on that generates questions for me to ask.

    Good luck w/this.
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    Nov 30, 2014 8:26 PM GMT
    If temporary changes in bloodworks were such a serious concern at all times, there would be pretty much no medicine left to use and we would lose much more with that than we would gain. I think you might be just a little hypochondriac.

    PS: Do you drink beer? You could do a blood test right after drinking
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    Nov 30, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
    Creatinine levels fluctuate a lot and medical researchers are looking for better indicators of impaired kidney function. And of course if you supplement creatine your creatinine levels will go up.
    Your doctor is doing the right thing to ensure that she isn't liable in a legal sense since one of your blood numbers were out of the normal range.

    I've had a look at pubmed and the only things I can find are improved liver function with creatine. Specifically against alcoholic/non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24842317
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25205520 (TG = triglycerides)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24353111
    Here's a current review http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23851411

    Looking at the Mayo clinic though you get "Mild asthma-like symptoms after chronic consumption of creatine (20 grams daily for five days followed by 10 grams daily for 51 days) has occurred." And then after that there's a seriously long list but with no indications of how common these events are. Most of it seems related to dehydration and rehydration but you knew that creatine does that. http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/creatine/safety/hrb-20059125

    University of Maryland is more mixed http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/creatine

    Found something on PubMed! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18452122 I'm not at work so I don't have access to the full text. Abstract doesn't actually say if the supplements contained anything more than creatine and whey. And his symptoms began after he started the whey rather than the creatine. And it could be completely unrelated to his supplements.

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    Nov 30, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
    bachian saidIf temporary changes in bloodworks were such a serious concern at all times, there would be pretty much no medicine left to use and we would lose much more with that than we would gain. I think you might be just a little hypochondriac.



    Ummm, no I'm definitely not a hypochondriac. Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. I go to my doctor because she has education and knowledge I don't. If she tells me something is off I listen. Period.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Nov 30, 2014 9:09 PM GMT
    The guy at my suppliments shop has always recommended that I cycle two months on and one month off creatine. He also said that the levels of creatine I'm taking are low enough that I probably don't need to cycle off but it doesn't hurt. And I get a liver test frequently because I take statins. No out of normal readings. Ya, I've started getting copies of all my blood tests. The levels of everything is displayed against "normal" for my age group. You should start watching your own. Some clinics that draw blood still make it hard for you to get but you can insist. Obamacare requires you've given your own results. Part of the attempt to slow costs by more active patient involvement.
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    Nov 30, 2014 9:12 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidUmmm, no I'm definitely not a hypochondriac. Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. I go to my doctor because she has education and knowledge I don't. If she tells me something is off I listen. Period.


    I'm not insulting you... it's just my impression that your concern is disproportionate, hence hypochondriac. It's like thinking you'll become diabetic after eating a banana just because you'll have a glycemic spike.
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    Nov 30, 2014 10:08 PM GMT
    bachian said
    Scruffypup saidUmmm, no I'm definitely not a hypochondriac. Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. I go to my doctor because she has education and knowledge I don't. If she tells me something is off I listen. Period.


    I'm not insulting you... it's just my impression that your concern is disproportionate, hence hypochondriac. It's like thinking you'll become diabetic after eating a banana just because you'll have a glycemic spike.



    Not at all. Again, I'm going by the concern of my doctor. That's what I pay her for.
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Nov 30, 2014 10:48 PM GMT
    The same thing happened to me. My doc said taking creatine can raise creatinine levels. But when creatine raises creatinine levels, that is not a bad thing. It's bad when something else in the body raises creatinine levels. Just stop taking it before the blood test -- personally I would stop at about a week and a half before the blood test. Then start taking it again.
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    Dec 01, 2014 5:13 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    bachian said
    Scruffypup saidUmmm, no I'm definitely not a hypochondriac. Not sure why you feel the need to insult me. I go to my doctor because she has education and knowledge I don't. If she tells me something is off I listen. Period.


    I'm not insulting you... it's just my impression that your concern is disproportionate, hence hypochondriac. It's like thinking you'll become diabetic after eating a banana just because you'll have a glycemic spike.


    Scruffy has a propensity to assume people are attacking him and thus, reliably overreacts without fail. It's been a consistent behavior I've observed in him ever since he made the unfortunate choice to invade the forums.

    Your doctor should have said "creatinine" levels. Everyone has creatine levels in their body. Creatinine is the resultant waste product of creatine and when these levels are notably high it can possibly signify that the kidneys are succumbing to or are already damaged. Your doctor sounds inept. Asserting that high creatine levels was the culprit sounds incomplete and uninformed. Either that or you are remembering incorrectly.

    Also, the whole approach to studying creatine and creatinine levels in the human body needs much more research. The debate lately is that a sixty year old woman weighing ninety pounds should not have the same level of creatine and creatinine in her blood as a lean and muscular 230lb male in his early forties. But as of now the levels remain standardized for all adult humans.

    My creatinine levels have elevated as of last year around the same time I reintroduced creatine back into my diet. No coincidence there. And to be certain that my kidneys were fine my doctor ran further test such as measuring phosphorus content in urine. Higher levels of phosphorus in urine can confirm that kidney damage may be taking place. Thankfully my phosphorus levels are normal.

    There are no studies or any claims made by reputable sources that creatine supplementation resulted in "permanent" liver damage. Any elevated levels from creatine use go down to "normal" after cessation of its use.

    Once again, Scruffy has a personal experience and comes to (an erroneous) conclusion and gets on his soap box because now the whole world has to be "warned." Yet another perfect example of hyperbole with distortion. I guess in the long run, you do have sincere intentions....sometimes. But the world doesn't spin on its axis according to your personal outlook and experiences. I suggest getting another doctor; one who has some familiarity with athletes. Above all, I suggest you truly learn the facts before spreading erroneous information and let go of this need rescue the world.

    To everyone else:

    Creatine supplementation has been used to improve or halt the progression of certain diseases like Parkinson's and even certain types of Muscular Dystrophy. Vegetarians typically benefit most because they don't get in their diets from sources rich in creatine which are animal products like beef, pork and eggs.

    Also, don't just "Google" something in order to learn. Use "Google Scholar" for more reliably truthful and unbiased information.



    Sorry MucusMary, everyone here knows you're just pissed off because I don't buy your whole bareback agenda. Anyone who refuses to let an HIV+ guy fuck them bareback automatically becomes the target for your personal attacks. I don't give a shit what you have to say about Creatine or anything else because you're a sociopathic liar. For someone with a "boyfriend", you certain spend a LOT of time chasing me from thread to thread. In fact, I'm quite certain your spend more time chasing me around than this boyfriend of yours. Although (if he exists) he's probably just as sick of your cuntiness as we are.
  • wesv

    Posts: 907

    Dec 01, 2014 7:42 AM GMT
    I take creatine almost everyday, even my rest days. I hope I'm fine. A lot of the things I've read said as long as a person doesn't overdiee, they should be fine.
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    Dec 01, 2014 3:03 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    Scruffypup said
    Sorry MucusMary, everyone here knows you're just pissed off because I don't buy your whole bareback agenda. Anyone who refuses to let an HIV+ guy fuck them bareback automatically becomes the target for your personal attacks. I don't give a shit what you have to say about Creatine or anything else because you're a sociopathic liar. For someone with a "boyfriend", you certain spend a LOT of time chasing me from thread to thread. In fact, I'm quite certain your spend more time chasing me around than this boyfriend of yours. Although (if he exists) he's probably just as sick of your cuntiness as we are.


    No one here is in agreement with you, ScruffiV. Not one person. You're simply overreacting because I didn't sugarcoat the process of telling you what a histrionic fool you're being.

    It's evident you have absolutely NO idea what is happening here and by the way you described your doctor's words it sounds like she's not up to snuff when it comes to the use of creatine and its benign effects on the human body.

    Don't foolishly attempt to flatter yourself just because I addressed your gross inaccuracies here on a thread about creatine. It really is unbelievable that someone points out your falsities and your response is to imply that this person spends more time on you than his own boyfriend. You obviously sound jealous because you're alone.

    If you accused me of having a penchant for taking out the trash I would wholeheartedly admit to that. And bringing up unrelated topics like sexual practices and HIV status has no relation to this thread. I ask that you contain your emotions and pull it together.



    Listen you disease pit. You attack me in a innocent thread about Creatine, then you act all surprised when I throw shit back at you. Go bareback more young boys or just fuck off and die you bitter cunt.
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    Dec 01, 2014 3:15 PM GMT
    Calm down, boys!

    OK, yes, your doctor was saying "creatinine"

    I had blood tests done for something a while ago when I was taking creatine. When they confirmed that the results were ok for what they were looking for - they also asked if I was taking creatine - because, of course, my creatinine levels were higher than the norm, which I guessed and asked if that was why they were asking. If I *hadn't* been taking creatine, those same elevated values would have been a possible sign of a problem - so they wanted to know what the cause could be. I told them yes, so they didn't worry about the slightly elevated values. (Of course that could be due to the fact that in Canada, I can't even *try* to sue for the same amount of damages in a malpractice suit as I could in the US - there is less CYA-itis with most doctors up here)

    Doctor9
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    Dec 01, 2014 8:20 PM GMT
    Doctor9 saidCalm down, boys!

    OK, yes, your doctor was saying "creatinine"

    I had blood tests done for something a while ago when I was taking creatine. When they confirmed that the results were ok for what they were looking for - they also asked if I was taking creatine - because, of course, my creatinine levels were higher than the norm, which I guessed and asked if that was why they were asking. If I *hadn't* been taking creatine, those same elevated values would have been a possible sign of a problem - so they wanted to know what the cause could be. I told them yes, so they didn't worry about the slightly elevated values. (Of course that could be due to the fact that in Canada, I can't even *try* to sue for the same amount of damages in a malpractice suit as I could in the US - there is less CYA-itis with most doctors up here)

    Doctor9



    Yeah, it's quite possible she said "Creatinine" instead of Creatine. I actually see her today and will confirm it. So you're saying that it's not that the levels were necessarily a danger, but if the blood work did not return to normal after I stopped taking it, it would signal a problem? Because I would sure like to take it again in the future.
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    Dec 03, 2014 6:22 AM GMT
    Destinharbor saidThe guy at my suppliments shop has always recommended that I cycle two months on and one month off creatine. He also said that the levels of creatine I'm taking are low enough that I probably don't need to cycle off but it doesn't hurt. And I get a liver test frequently because I take statins. No out of normal readings. Ya, I've started getting copies of all my blood tests. The levels of everything is displayed against "normal" for my age group. You should start watching your own. Some clinics that draw blood still make it hard for you to get but you can insist. Obamacare requires you've given your own results. Part of the attempt to slow costs by more active patient involvement.


    This is pretty much what I've done, but not intentionally. It's more that I run out and it takes me several weeks before I get around to buying more.
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    Dec 03, 2014 6:29 AM GMT
    Any known issues with creatine and being seriously diabetic? I've stayed off of it since I found out about the type 2.