Marriage vows

  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 5:03 PM GMT
    Is their a legal requirement for marriage vows? I see and hear so many people saying "until death do us part" is an unfair requirement. I've never heard of a couple asking to have that removed or not read.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 04, 2014 5:09 PM GMT
    Marriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 04, 2014 5:14 PM GMT
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?

    Correct. You can omit anything. We decided not to include anything about children.
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    Dec 04, 2014 5:16 PM GMT
    My dearest [insert name here], I promise to love and cherish you until somebody hotter comes along, or until I get sick of your stupid [house, techno, trance, grunge, hip-hop, classical oratorio] music and the way you chew your food starts to work my last nerve
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 6:11 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare saidMy dearest [insert name here], I promise to love and cherish you until somebody hotter comes along, or until I get sick of your stupid [house, techno, trance, grunge, hip-hop, classical oratorio] music and the way you chew your food starts to work my last nerve


    At least you would be honest.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 6:12 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?

    Correct. You can omit anything. We decided not to include anything about children.


    I wonder if most couples do this or do they go with what's expected of them
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 04, 2014 6:28 PM GMT
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?

    Correct. You can omit anything. We decided not to include anything about children.


    I wonder if most couples do this or do they go with what's expected of them

    Some people write their own vows. But when it comes to using traditional vows, I think if you have your officiant carefully council you beforehand you'll tend to customize the service, whereas if you don't have that you'll be more likely to use a template.... It comes down to wedding planning. There are so many details involved and people you have to hire, that it's easy to overlook and/or get lost in the details.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 6:35 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?

    Correct. You can omit anything. We decided not to include anything about children.


    I wonder if most couples do this or do they go with what's expected of them

    Some people write their own vows. But when it comes to using traditional vows, I think if you have your officiant carefully council you beforehand you'll tend to customize the service, whereas if you don't have that you'll be more likely to use a template.... It comes down to wedding planning. There are so many details involved and people you have to hire, that it's easy to overlook and/or get lost in the details.


    Your vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details to just overlook. It makes me wonder if people actually take marriage seriously. You are making me excited about getting married myself though. I'm happy you are such a sweet level headed man. I'm sure you married similarly
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    Dec 04, 2014 6:48 PM GMT
    muscleboundfem said... vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details...

    +1
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 04, 2014 7:53 PM GMT
    pellaz said
    muscleboundfem said... vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details...

    +1

    Standing up and declaring your vows before a congregation is a ceremonial gesture. A wedding is great fun, but the relationship and commitment really happens all during the marriage. It's not just a commitment you make once. It's a commitment you keep making your whole life. Some people don't need to articulate their feelings the same way as others do. Other people say all the right things but then don't live up to them.... The vows one says at the altar are more for the ceremony. (You should already have made your commitment just by getting engaged, really.) When you're up there, it's such a heady experience that you barely know what you're saying. I remember just watching my fiancé's lips, and then kissing him before we were told to kiss because I just wanted to fly away with him......
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    Dec 04, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    ...I remember just watching my fiancé's lips, and then kissing him before we were told to kiss because I just wanted to fly away with him......


    I remember that feeling with my ex...and then I remembered he had a wife...icon_neutral.gif
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Dec 04, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?


    That's right -- they can say or not say whatever they want. Three years ago, I did a performance-art piece in which I legally married a woman I'd met on Twitter onstage at a gay strip club. (We were the warm-up act for the strippers.)

    Not only did we not vow "till death do us part," we vowed "till DIVORCE do us part," and the marriage was still legally binding (which was part of the point of the performance). We exchanged Ring Pops instead of real wedding rings, and the marriage was still legally binding. (This was in Texas, where gays couldn't and still can't get married.)

    At her father's suggestion, one of the vows was "to refrain from any major purchases until the divorce is finalized." (He's a civil-rights attorney and handled the divorce pro bono.)

    After the minister pronounced us man and wife, he kissed the bride and I kissed my best man, a go-go dancer I'd met a few minutes before the ceremony.
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    Dec 04, 2014 9:27 PM GMT
    My Grandad and his second wife wrote each other's vows. There was something in there about "promise to clean and cook all fish caught..."

    The marriage actually happens when you sign the paper at the county clerk's office. The whole ceremony is just an optional party.
  • secondstartot...

    Posts: 1314

    Dec 04, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
    "With this hand, I will lift your sorrows. Your cup will never empty, For I will be your wine. With this candle, I will light your way in darkness. With this ring, I ask you to be mine." ( from Corpse Bride)
    Father, Smith, Warrior, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Stranger. I am his and he is mine from this day until the end of days.
    Moon of my life/My sun and stars
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    pellaz said
    muscleboundfem said... vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details...

    +1

    Standing up and declaring your vows before a congregation is a ceremonial gesture. A wedding is great fun, but the relationship and commitment really happens all during the marriage. It's not just a commitment you make once. It's a commitment you keep making your whole life. Some people don't need to articulate their feelings the same way as others do. Other people say all the right things but then don't live up to them.... The vows one says at the altar are more for the ceremony. (You should already have made your commitment just by getting engaged, really.) When you're up there, it's such a heady experience that you barely know what you're saying. I remember just watching my fiancé's lips, and then kissing him before we were told to kiss because I just wanted to fly away with him......


    I think you are getting confused and placing to much emphasis on the vows at the alter. As you said the commitment happens all through out the marriage. How can you keep a commitment throughout a marriage if you have never honestly sat down with your fiancee and honestly discussed what marriage means to you. The represent the formal beginning of a conversation you will be sharing with your spouse your entire life (I view relationships as a form of communication). What is the point of making something formal if you haven't had those honest discussions on what making it formal means to you.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 10:48 PM GMT
    slimnmuscly said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe saidMarriage vows are personal. If you get married in a religious ceremony, the priest will go over what you want your vows be. When I got married, my husband and I vowed to forsake all others for as long as we both live.... Which means we vowed monogamy.


    So people who believe that, "till death do us part" is unrealistic can simply not have that said during their wedding?


    That's right -- they can say or not say whatever they want. Three years ago, I did a performance-art piece in which I legally married a woman I'd met on Twitter onstage at a gay strip club. (We were the warm-up act for the strippers.)

    Not only did we not vow "till death do us part," we vowed "till DIVORCE do us part," and the marriage was still legally binding (which was part of the point of the performance). We exchanged Ring Pops instead of real wedding rings, and the marriage was still legally binding. (This was in Texas, where gays couldn't and still can't get married.)

    At her father's suggestion, one of the vows was "to refrain from any major purchases until the divorce is finalized." (He's a civil-rights attorney and handled the divorce pro bono.)

    After the minister pronounced us man and wife, he kissed the bride and I kissed my best man, a go-go dancer I'd met a few minutes before the ceremony.


    Wish I could have been there for that. Did you at least invite Britney?
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    Dec 04, 2014 10:50 PM GMT
    If they can take "obey" out of the "love, honor and" bridal vow I do believe you have a till-death-do-us loophole.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 10:51 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidMy Grandad and his second wife wrote each other's vows. There was something in there about "promise to clean and cook all fish caught..."

    The marriage actually happens when you sign the paper at the county clerk's office. The whole ceremony is just an optional party.


    I know this. This is why I always called bull shit on religious people who were against making marriage a completely religious experience and using civil unions for all in legal sense. It was never about religious freedom.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 10:53 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidIf they can take "obey" out of the "love, honor and" bridal vow I do believe you have a till-death-do-us loophole.


    or at least give the wife a safety word
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 04, 2014 11:01 PM GMT
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe said
    pellaz said
    muscleboundfem said... vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details...

    +1

    Standing up and declaring your vows before a congregation is a ceremonial gesture. A wedding is great fun, but the relationship and commitment really happens all during the marriage. It's not just a commitment you make once. It's a commitment you keep making your whole life. Some people don't need to articulate their feelings the same way as others do. Other people say all the right things but then don't live up to them.... The vows one says at the altar are more for the ceremony. (You should already have made your commitment just by getting engaged, really.) When you're up there, it's such a heady experience that you barely know what you're saying. I remember just watching my fiancé's lips, and then kissing him before we were told to kiss because I just wanted to fly away with him......


    I think you are getting confused and placing to much emphasis on the vows at the alter. As you said the commitment happens all through out the marriage. How can you keep a commitment throughout a marriage if you have never honestly sat down with your fiancee and honestly discussed what marriage means to you. The represent the formal beginning of a conversation you will be sharing with your spouse your entire life (I view relationships as a form of communication). What is the point of making something formal if you haven't had those honest discussions on what making it formal means to you.

    I thought you were talking about weddings. Obviously, communication is important in every relationship. I would never suggest that you enter into a marriage without discussing what it means to you with your fiancé. I can't imagine anyone who is serious about their relationship doing that, unless they are a complete fool.

    Many people (gay and straight) make a mockery of marriages and weddings, but two people who are already committed to each other really don't need the world's eyes, ears or input in order to make it last. A wedding is about inviting friends and family to witness something that was sparked long before the invitations went out.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 11:10 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    muscleboundfem said
    HottJoe said
    pellaz said
    muscleboundfem said... vows, and counseling before the wedding seem like huge details...

    +1

    Standing up and declaring your vows before a congregation is a ceremonial gesture. A wedding is great fun, but the relationship and commitment really happens all during the marriage. It's not just a commitment you make once. It's a commitment you keep making your whole life. Some people don't need to articulate their feelings the same way as others do. Other people say all the right things but then don't live up to them.... The vows one says at the altar are more for the ceremony. (You should already have made your commitment just by getting engaged, really.) When you're up there, it's such a heady experience that you barely know what you're saying. I remember just watching my fiancé's lips, and then kissing him before we were told to kiss because I just wanted to fly away with him......


    I think you are getting confused and placing to much emphasis on the vows at the alter. As you said the commitment happens all through out the marriage. How can you keep a commitment throughout a marriage if you have never honestly sat down with your fiancee and honestly discussed what marriage means to you. The represent the formal beginning of a conversation you will be sharing with your spouse your entire life (I view relationships as a form of communication). What is the point of making something formal if you haven't had those honest discussions on what making it formal means to you.

    I thought you were talking about weddings. Obviously, communication is important in every relationship. I would never suggest that you enter into a marriage without discussing what it means to you with your fiancé. I can't imagine anyone who is serious about their relationship doing that, unless they are a complete fool.

    Many people (gay and straight) make a mockery of marriages and weddings, but two people who are already committed to each other really don't need the world's eyes, ears or input in order to make it last. A wedding is about inviting friends and family to witness something that was sparked long before the invitations went out.


    True I guess my skepticism is borne by my most recent relationship. That man had no problem committing to me. However he was never honest with himself and so could never be honest with me. I notice a lot of people do that. The vows are a symbol of that to me. If you are going to make a promise to someone understand what you are saying. Don't just do it because its expected of you or everyone else is doing it. Monogamy is a good example. A lot of couples can't handle it but never discuss monogamy. They just cheat on each other and hope it doesn't blow up in their face
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 04, 2014 11:19 PM GMT
    yeah, it's your marriage, you can do whatever you want.
  • muscleboundfe...

    Posts: 392

    Dec 04, 2014 11:43 PM GMT
    willular saidyeah, it's your marriage, you can do whatever you want.


    Their are limits. You can't rape your spouse, or bring a third person into the marriage
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    Dec 05, 2014 1:31 AM GMT
    muscleboundfem said
    eagermuscle saidIf they can take "obey" out of the "love, honor and" bridal vow I do believe you have a till-death-do-us loophole.


    or at least give the wife a safety word


    lol