Senate Report Says Torture Program Was More Gruesome, Widespread Than CIA Claimed

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Dec 09, 2014 7:11 PM GMT
    Senate Report Says Torture Program Was More Gruesome, Widespread Than CIA Claimed

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/09/senate-cia-report_n_6270138.html
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 09, 2014 7:18 PM GMT
    I don't care what bullshit opinion Holder's DOJ maintains, Feinstein, and this report, detail crimes - real crimes - under both domestic and certainly international law on multiple levels.

    Not only the rogue, perjurious individuals most directly involved, but those other countries who willfully aided and abetted us are complicit in a plethora of infractions under several treaties.

    Having said that, let's see... who cares?
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Dec 09, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy saidI don't care what bullshit opinion Holder's DOJ maintains, Feinstein, and this report, detail crimes - real crimes - under both domestic and certainly international law on multiple levels.

    Not only the rogue, perjurious individuals most directly involved, but those other countries who willfully aided and abetted us are complicit in a plethora of infractions under several treaties.

    Having said that, let's see... who cares?


    you mean those feckless idiots in Egypt maybe?
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 09, 2014 8:40 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    WrestlerBoy saidI don't care what bullshit opinion Holder's DOJ maintains, Feinstein, and this report, detail crimes - real crimes - under both domestic and certainly international law on multiple levels.

    Not only the rogue, perjurious individuals most directly involved, but those other countries who willfully aided and abetted us are complicit in a plethora of infractions under several treaties.

    Having said that, let's see... who cares?


    you mean those feckless idiots in Egypt maybe?


    The report redacts the names of the FIFTY countries who helped... Every member of NATO (except Germany); every basketcase in Africa we give a dime to; Central America (excluding Nicaragua and Costa Rica); with Egypt, Syria, and Libya (yes, yes) that's getting me to around 50 right there.

    Maybe those countries not included in the 50 could have our equivalent of a class action against the 50 at the ICJ.... that would only take, ooooh, 400 years to resolve.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 09, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
    We actually ground their food up (pasta, beans, NUTS) and forced it into their rectums to "rehydrate" them. I don't recognize my own country anymore.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Dec 09, 2014 11:33 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy saidWe actually ground their food up (pasta, beans, NUTS) and forced it into their rectums to "rehydrate" them. I don't recognize my own country anymore.


    oh please, we hired Nazi's to build NASA and the pharmaceutical business
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 10, 2014 12:02 AM GMT
    The worst disaster to result from Bush's torture policy (and who knows it hasn't been continued under Obama?) is that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." We (the USA) executed a bunch of barbarian Japanese officers after the war for their "war crimes" of torturing prisoners of war. Well, we're not much better than the Japanese. Unfortunately, now every rogue state will feel perfectly free to torture American prisoners in the future. The real reason in modern times for not torturing soldiers of the opponent, is so that the opponent won't torture your soldiers. Because of Bush and the CIA, we can no longer rely on that principle. Any US soldier prisoner who is tortured in the future has George Bush to blame.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Dec 10, 2014 12:39 AM GMT
    Who cares. They had to wear a diaper or be chained to a wall or got a little water dripped on their head. For people that killed 5000 people by flying planes into buildings and that like to chop off peoples heads, they sure are a bunch of whiners. Tuff shit!
    The police in the US do worse to the American citizens on the streets, in jails and in prisons. Get fucking over it.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 1:26 AM GMT
    Looks like Bush and the republicans are flat out lying, and they're still doing so.icon_evil.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 1:30 AM GMT
    HikerSkier saidThe worst disaster to result from Bush's torture policy (and who knows it hasn't been continued under Obama?) is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. We (the USA) executed a bunch of barbarian Japanese officers after the war for their "war crimes" of torturing prisoners of war. Well, we're not much better than the Japanese. Unfortunately, now every rogue state will feel perfectly free to torture American prisoners in the future. The real reason in modern times for not torturing soldiers of the opponent, is so that the opponent won't torture your soldiers. Because of Bush and the CIA, we can no longer rely on that principle. Any US soldier prisoner who is tortured in the future has George Bush to blame.

    Bush set us back in so many ways. It's been six years since he left office, and we're still cleaning up after his mess. And what's really scary is that the republicans currently in Congress are even worse.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 10, 2014 12:58 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWho cares. They had to wear a diaper or be chained to a wall or got a little water dripped on their head. For people that killed 5000 people by flying planes into buildings and that like to chop off peoples heads, they sure are a bunch of whiners. Tuff shit!
    The police in the US do worse to the American citizens on the streets, in jails and in prisons. Get fucking over it.


    The CIA itself stated that at least 25 of the 119 detainees outlined in the report were "entirely innocent"; yet they were held for months on end, and so treated.

    Get over... what, exactly?
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 10, 2014 6:20 PM GMT
    Former CIA Director Hayden, who claims the Senate report is bullshit because they didn't interview even one "CIA officer" (what was HE, then?). How many times do we think any of us would get away with this, under oath before Congress, before facing a jail term:

    (1) Hayden on water boarding.............This testimony is incongruent with CIA interrogation records

    (2) Hayden on Hygiene.................This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (3) Hayden on dietry manipulation....This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (4) Hayden on punches and kicks.......This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (5) Hayden on Detainee stats.............This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (6) Hayden on intelligent reports of value.........This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (7) Hayden on reporting abuse...........This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (icon_cool.gif Hayden on threats of sodomy, rape, arrest of family.......This testimony is incongruent with CIA records

    (9) Hayden on injuries and death.....This testimony is incongruent with CIA records
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Dec 10, 2014 6:39 PM GMT
    Obama Points Out One Thing That Isn't Controversial About The Torture Report

    "I recognize that there’s controversies in terms of some of the details, but what’s not controversial is the fact that we did some things that violated who we are as a people"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/10/obama-torture-report_n_6301552.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 10, 2014 6:50 PM GMT
    metta8 saidObama Points Out One Thing That Isn't Controversial About The Torture Report

    "I recognize that there’s controversies in terms of some of the details, but what’s not controversial is the fact that we did some things that violated who we are as a people"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/10/obama-torture-report_n_6301552.html


    Not to justify the human rights excesses of the Bush years, but just to put some things in perspective:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html

    The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes: 2,400 Dead

    The U.S. drone program under President Barack Obama reached its fifth anniversary on Thursday having tallied up an estimated death toll of at least 2,400 people.

    As the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a U.K.-based non-profit, details on its website, five years ago the CIA conducted the first drone strikes of the Obama presidency. Although there were reports of suspected "militants" killed, at least 14 civilians also died that day.

    After those initial mistakes, TBIJ notes, Obama rapidly ramped up the drone program in Pakistan and increased its use in Yemen and Somalia, two countries where al Qaeda affiliates expanded their presence during Obama's presidency.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 10, 2014 7:22 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    metta8 saidObama Points Out One Thing That Isn't Controversial About The Torture Report

    "I recognize that there’s controversies in terms of some of the details, but what’s not controversial is the fact that we did some things that violated who we are as a people"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/10/obama-torture-report_n_6301552.html


    Not to justify the human rights excesses of the Bush years, but just to put some things in perspective:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html

    The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes: 2,400 Dead

    The U.S. drone program under President Barack Obama reached its fifth anniversary on Thursday having tallied up an estimated death toll of at least 2,400 people.

    As the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a U.K.-based non-profit, details on its website, five years ago the CIA conducted the first drone strikes of the Obama presidency. Although there were reports of suspected "militants" killed, at least 14 civilians also died that day.

    After those initial mistakes, TBIJ notes, Obama rapidly ramped up the drone program in Pakistan and increased its use in Yemen and Somalia, two countries where al Qaeda affiliates expanded their presence during Obama's presidency.


    Yes, they're all as bad as each other, and the more partisan we make this, the more "they" will love us for it. I'm as "leftie" as they come, but I, too, know that that two-faced cow Feinstein couldn't give a fuck, and didn't... until she found out that the NSA had her husband and his multimillion dollar deals with the Federal Government tabbed as well; then she "woke up". But it's those "details" they want us to concentrate on, instead of the bigger picture.

    So Snowden and the NSA business was one thing; now here we go again: We have a government that is knowingly and willfully breaking domestic and international law routinely while, at the same time, demanding that you and I obey those laws under penalty. We have a name for "governments" like that.

    So what DOES actually have to happen before we acknowledge we've become a post-democratic farce masquerading as a representative government?

    And not just us. Basically the only part of the Senate report redacted is... the names of the 50 other countries who played ball with us. So what do we do now? As I said, they're all at it.

    So, it really does seem to have "happened overnight": A president resigns because he knew about a "third-rate burglary"; another is impeached because he had his cock sucked; and all of a sudden our Country is being run by unelected nobodies with a complete disregard for the.... Rule of Law that you and I are supposed to obey?

    And this is why I love RJ: Not because it is so different from the Country as a whole... but because it's a perfect representation of it: Look at the number of people who have read - let alone posted to - this thread; then look at the number of responses to "Would You Fuck the Left Nostril of the Guy Above You?"

    If this isn't a "constitutional crisis", I don't know what is. The problem, of course, is that we, here, have to decide it's a "crisis".





  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 7:31 PM GMT
    ^I'd fuck your left nostril!icon_biggrin.gif

    Wait, what were we talking about again???icon_confused.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 7:38 PM GMT
    I was listening to NPR on my way into work today, and they reported that the international response has been much more subdued than was expected. I just wonder what that says about the whole world. Do they not care about terrorists, laws, human rights, or anything? It just seems like the US is making a bigger deal about it than I other nations. I think the international community has been much more vocal about the Snowden revelations, because everyday people may feel their privacy is being violated.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 10, 2014 7:51 PM GMT
    I'm about to leave (next week) for the Philippines to work on a 4-year project to try and help reintegrate the Abu Sayyaf Islamist guerrillas into Filipino society and "resolve" that conflict, so these things might be a bit nearer the bone for me than they are for most.

    But the rub to all of this might well lie in the old question "Cui bono?" Who's benefitting from all of this "chaos"?

    Well, someone might say I am (I "do" conflict resolution and human rights law); if you work in an arms factory, you're benefitting; if you work on Wall Street, you're benefitting; if you're ISIL, you're benefitting; if you're our "allies" in the Gulf States, you're benefitting (Britain building a brand new base in Bahrain, e.g.); if you're one of our-now-very-special 50 buddies, you're benefitting.

    Who isn't benefitting? The usual: The poor, minorities, the "uneducated", the children maimed by land mines, the internally displaced; you know, the vast majority of the world's population.

    But who gives a fuck, right?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 11, 2014 2:53 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWho cares. They had to wear a diaper or be chained to a wall or got a little water dripped on their head. For people that killed 5000 people by flying planes into buildings and that like to chop off peoples heads, they sure are a bunch of whiners. Tuff shit!
    The police in the US do worse to the American citizens on the streets, in jails and in prisons. Get fucking over it.

    They killed at least one in the process - several more almost died - I guess that was just like ordinary frat hazing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 11, 2014 3:03 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidLooks like Bush and the republicans are flat out lying, and they're still doing so.icon_evil.gif

    So is Obama's team. CIA head Brennan has been lying to us and Congress about what happened, - and Obama says he still supports the guy. So what's the difference between Bush and Obama here? Brennan ought to be resigning. He behaved just a little bit more badly than Shinseki and Petraeus who got their heads handed to them for much lesser offenses.
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Dec 11, 2014 3:55 AM GMT
    Bush in 2006: "I want to be absolutely clear with our people and the world: The United States does not torture."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/09/george-w-bush-denies-torture_n_6295888.html
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Dec 11, 2014 4:31 AM GMT
    "As US tears itself apart over torture of terrorists, let's just remember who we're up against: ISIS throws man off roof to his death for being gay – and strings up ‘rapists’ in the streets"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2868419/Thrown-roof-gay-ISIS-release-chilling-new-images-brutal-execution-man-guilty-sodomy.html#ixzz3LYnh79vd

    23F0826A00000578-0-After_dragging_the_ma

    23F2A7C300000578-2868419-image-a-3_14182http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/10/23F2A7C300000578-2868419-image-a-3_1418243374287.jpg">

    In this country we gas rabid dogs.

  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 11, 2014 10:29 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk said"As US tears itself apart over torture of terrorists, let's just remember who we're up against: ISIS throws man off roof to his death for being gay – and strings up ‘rapists’ in the streets"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2868419/Thrown-roof-gay-ISIS-release-chilling-new-images-brutal-execution-man-guilty-sodomy.html#ixzz3LYnh79vd

    23F0826A00000578-0-After_dragging_the_ma

    23F2A7C300000578-2868419-image-a-3_14182http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/10/23F2A7C300000578-2868419-image-a-3_1418243374287.jpg">

    In this country we gas rabid dogs.



    It's people like you that tell us, partially, WHY they do it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 11, 2014 12:29 PM GMT
    Senate Report Says Torture Program Was More Gruesome, Widespread Than CIA Claimed


    How startling. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Dec 11, 2014 12:41 PM GMT
    Cheney, on Fox, yesterday:

    “We asked the agency to go take steps and put in place programmes that were designed to catch the bastards who killed 3,000 of us on 9/11 and make sure it didn’t happen again, and that’s exactly what they did, and they deserve a lot of credit,” he said, “not the condemnation they are receiving from the Senate Democrats.”

    So, let's see, "Dick": 19 hijackers, of whom: 15 citizens of Saudi Arabia (an ally of the United States); 2 from the UAE (an ally of the United States); 1 from Egypt (an ally of the United States); 1 from Lebanon (a kinda/sorta ally of the United States...sometimes).

    So, let's put aside - for the moment - the inconvenient fact that "the bastards" you wanted to catch were all... dead, let's consider whom we invaded as a result?

    Not Saudi Arabia; not the UAE; not Egypt; and not Lebanon.

    It's not that you thought were were so stupid then, "Dick", that annoys me... it's that you continue to think we're so stupid now.