Nightly Riots in San Francisco Bay Area Make Movement Impossible

  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Dec 09, 2014 11:16 PM GMT
    The nightly riots in San Francisco, Berkeley, and Oakland (thousands of miles away from the NYC and Missouri police shootings) are getting a bit tiresome. Every night, windows smashed, stores looted, an Interstate highways blocked - last night railroads and the crossbay subway (BART) as well. One thing it proves, this area has the most incompetent police services of any urban area in the country. They just let it happen, arresting only a handful each night. If California didn't have an idiot for a governor, he would have called out the national guard. Instead, no one can count on being able to travel anywhere between 6PM and 2 AM.
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    Dec 10, 2014 3:47 PM GMT
    Suetonius saidThe nightly riots in San Francisco, Berkeley, and Oakland (thousands of miles away from the NYC and Missouri police shootings) are getting a bit tiresome. Every night, windows smashed, stores looted, an Interstate highways blocked - last night railroads and the crossbay subway (BART) as well. One thing it proves, this area has the most incompetent police services of any urban area in the country. They just let it happen, arresting only a handful each night. If California didn't have an idiot for a governor, he would have called out the national guard. Instead, no one can count on being able to travel anywhere between 6PM and 2 AM.


    Jerry's not about to arrest any of the members of his core constituency. Besides, he and his fellow '60s holdovers are mired in the street theater of that era, so why shouldn't the rest of us be? Steer clear of the East Bay!
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 4:47 PM GMT
    Wow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    No justice, no peace
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    Dec 10, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    No justice, no peace


    Perhaps you should arrange for violent protests in your town, where they can block your access to necessities, smash windows in your neighborhood stores, loot those stores, and shut your services down while the cops and politicians stand by wringing their hands.

    No justice, no peace -- so long as it's someone else's property and peace.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 5:18 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    No justice, no peace


    Perhaps you should arrange for violent protests in your town, where they can block your access to necessities, smash windows in your neighborhood stores, loot those stores, and shut your services down while the cops and politicians stand by wringing their hands.

    No justice, no peace -- so long as it's someone else's property and peace.

    The protests are sparking all over the country, including in MPLS.

    Maybe instead of worrying about yourself, you should listen to the legitimate complaints of people who are being treated differently than you are because of skin color.

    Maybe that would bring peace.icon_idea.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 5:20 PM GMT
    Gay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.
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    Dec 10, 2014 5:38 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidGay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.


    The thing here is that the route taken to make their voices heard is one of violence. Breaking and entering, stealing, etc, etc.
    If they really wanted change and make their voices heard, one would think that people would adopt the route of the Freedom Riders in the 1960s. These people made a difference. They change not only laws but peoples perspectives in the segregated South. And they did this without raising a single fist or breaking a single window.
    ...But apparently we live in a time where fire is only fought with fire. Where people believe that peaceful protests don't work or when they are used they are hijacked by young people who just want an excuse to be crazy.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 5:54 PM GMT
    Chase646 said
    HottJoe saidGay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.


    The thing here is that the route taken to make their voices heard is one of violence. Breaking and entering, stealing, etc, etc.
    If they really wanted change and make their voices heard, one would think that people would adopt the route of the Freedom Riders in the 1960s. These people made a difference. They change not only laws but peoples perspectives in the segregated South. And they did this without raising a single fist or breaking a single window.
    ...But apparently we live in a time where fire is only fought with fire. Where people believe that peaceful protests don't work or when they are used they are hijacked by young people who just want an excuse to be crazy.

    If the movement in 60s was so successful we wouldn't have such an unbalanced unequal society today, or so many black lives being gunned down by police.

    Gay people won civil rights because we have straight allies. There are so few white allies to the black community. Most white people can't be bothered to give a fuck, or if they care it's only because they resent the protesters.

    If the country burns to the ground, it's because white people refused to listen.
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    Dec 10, 2014 5:57 PM GMT
    Do you claim to know what's in the mind of someone else, based on race, ethnicity, etc.?

    From CNN:

    The site reported: "The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police."

    This averages out to about 405 killings per year. The stats don't reflect the circumstances of the deaths, whether the deceased was presenting a lethal threat to the police or not.

    What's not being discussed is the black on black murder rate. The leading killer of black men in the 15-34 age range is other black men, coming in ahead of accidents and illness.

    In 2013, 2,245 black men were killed by other black men. At roughly 10% of the population, a similar white-on-white murder number would have been 22,450. Instead it was only 2,509. Black-on-black murder rate is roughly ten times that of white-on-white.

    If "black lives count," then correcting the above is really the place to start, but it's the issue that nobody wants to talk about.

    BlackDeath_zps48886072.jpg

    b-on-b_zpsb9d0f586.jpg
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 6:04 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidDo you claim to know what's in the mind of someone else, based on race, ethnicity, etc.?

    From CNN:

    The site reported: "The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police."

    This averages out to about 405 killings per year. The stats don't reflect the circumstances of the deaths, whether the deceased was presenting a lethal threat to the police or not.

    What's not being discussed is the black on black murder rate.



    BlackDeath_zps48886072.jpg

    Criminals killing each other is not the same as police killing unarmed citizens. Tamir Rice wasn't a criminal. He was a little kid and the cops shot him in an instant. You're basically holding police to the standards of murderers to obfuscate the truth about abuse of authority.
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    Dec 10, 2014 6:23 PM GMT
    You're hyperventilating and setting up a straw-man argument. I already stated in other postings that the shooting of the 12 year old was a poor exercise in police procedures.

    The driver of the squad car, rather than holding back and surveying the situation, pulled right up to the kid. The officer on the passenger side, a rookie cop, got out and was in close proximity to the kid. Due to the way the kid was dressed, it was difficult to tell whether he was a child or an adult. The red strip on the airsoft gun that the kid was holding was removed, making it look like a real gun. The kid didn't drop the gun when ordered.

    The cop shot him.


    The images below are of a real gun vs. Airsoft version of Beretta M-92.

    Could you tell the difference if the red marking on the muzzle were removed?

    Would you risk your life and that of a fellow officer to someone who you thought was threatening you with a deadly weapon?

    beretta-m92_zpsf86e1ec3.jpg

    airsoft_beretta_zpsedd3502b.jpg
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 6:52 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidYou're hyperventilating and setting up a straw-man argument. I already stated in other postings that the shooting of the 12 year old was a poor exercise in police procedures.

    The driver of the squad car, rather than holding back and surveying the situation, pulled right up to the kid. The officer on the passenger side, a rookie cop, got out and was in close proximity to the kid. Due to the way the kid was dressed, it was difficult to tell whether he was a child or an adult. The red strip on the airsoft gun that the kid was holding was removed, making it look like a real gun. The kid didn't drop the gun when ordered.

    The cop shot him.


    The images below are of a real gun vs. Airsoft version of Beretta M-92.

    Could you tell the difference if the red marking on the muzzle were removed?

    Would you risk your life and that of a fellow officer to someone who you thought was threatening you with a deadly weapon?

    beretta-m92_zpsf86e1ec3.jpg

    airsoft_beretta_zpsedd3502b.jpg

    The only threat are the cops. Tamir Rice was minding his own business. He wasn't given time to drop the toy he was holding. Have you ever met a 12 year old??? They don't always respond instantly. Maybe he thought the cops were talking to someone else. Who knows? It happened too fast. The cops were scared, like you said, and their fear of "demon" black people, to use officer Darren Wilson's words, makes them unfit for the job, and racist.

    His mother is asking for a conviction. Anything less and... no justice, no peace.
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    Dec 10, 2014 7:07 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    rkyjockdn saidYou're hyperventilating and setting up a straw-man argument. I already stated in other postings that the shooting of the 12 year old was a poor exercise in police procedures.

    The driver of the squad car, rather than holding back and surveying the situation, pulled right up to the kid. The officer on the passenger side, a rookie cop, got out and was in close proximity to the kid. Due to the way the kid was dressed, it was difficult to tell whether he was a child or an adult. The red strip on the airsoft gun that the kid was holding was removed, making it look like a real gun. The kid didn't drop the gun when ordered.

    The cop shot him.


    The images below are of a real gun vs. Airsoft version of Beretta M-92.

    Could you tell the difference if the red marking on the muzzle were removed?

    Would you risk your life and that of a fellow officer to someone who you thought was threatening you with a deadly weapon?

    beretta-m92_zpsf86e1ec3.jpg

    airsoft_beretta_zpsedd3502b.jpg

    The only threat are the cops. Tamir Rice was minding his own business. He wasn't given time to drop the toy he was holding. Have you ever met a 12 year old??? They don't always respond instantly. Maybe he thought the cops were talking to someone else. Who knows? It happened too fast. The cops were scared, like you said, and their fear of "demon" black people, to use officer Darren Wilson's words, makes them unfit for the job, and racist.

    His mother is asking for a conviction. Anything less and... no justice, no peace.


    By the way, a 12-year old is capable of murder.
    [url]
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/10/pennsylvania.young.murder.defendant/[/url]

    You never answered the question -- would you have considered the gun above as real? Would you have had an issue with the shooting had the guy been a 20 year old white male?

    ----


    RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 7:14 PM GMT
    ^So many what-ifs my head is spinning.

    What if you stop making excuses for unfit cops? Maybe then we could actually get somewhere.
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    Dec 10, 2014 7:58 PM GMT
    ^
    |
    It takes only two questions to make your head spin?

    1. Could you have distinguished the Airsoft from a real gun based on the photos?

    2. Would you have such issues with the shooting had the kid been 20 and white?



  • nicebritguy

    Posts: 31

    Dec 10, 2014 8:05 PM GMT
    Suetonius saidThe nightly riots in San Francisco, Berkeley, and Oakland (thousands of miles away from the NYC and Missouri police shootings) are getting a bit tiresome. Every night, windows smashed, stores looted, an Interstate highways blocked - last night railroads and the crossbay subway (BART) as well. One thing it proves, this area has the most incompetent police services of any urban area in the country. They just let it happen, arresting only a handful each night. If California didn't have an idiot for a governor, he would have called out the national guard. Instead, no one can count on being able to travel anywhere between 6PM and 2 AM.


    Getting tiresome? What kind of compliant, mindless fool are you? The role of such protests is not to entertain you, so you finding them tiresome really isn't the point.

    If people commit crimes, sure, they should be arrested. People have a right to protest though, no matter what you think about it.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 10, 2014 8:13 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said^
    |
    It takes only two questions to make your head spin?

    1. Could you have distinguished the Airsoft from a real gun based on the photos?

    2. Would you have such issues with the shooting had the kid been 20 and white?




    1. I know so little about guns and I'm not a trained cop

    2. He wasn't 20 and white, so that's irrelevant.

    Frankly, cops don't drive around predominately white neighborhoods looking for troublesome white people. They drive around white neighborhoods to make sure black people aren't loitering.

    Kind of like how the Nazis got their start.
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    Dec 11, 2014 12:38 AM GMT
    In regards to Tamir Rice: In many cities, look alike toy guns are illegal, perhaps some legislation here would be helpful going forward.

    Cleveland has a high crime rate. Why was the 12yo unsupervised?

    In this case, it may be the parents are irresponsible.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Dec 11, 2014 1:54 AM GMT
    Chase646 said
    HottJoe saidGay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.


    The thing here is that the route taken to make their voices heard is one of violence. Breaking and entering, stealing, etc, etc.
    If they really wanted change and make their voices heard, one would think that people would adopt the route of the Freedom Riders in the 1960s. These people made a difference. They change not only laws but peoples perspectives in the segregated South. And they did this without raising a single fist or breaking a single window.
    ...But apparently we live in a time where fire is only fought with fire. Where people believe that peaceful protests don't work or when they are used they are hijacked by young people who just want an excuse to be crazy.


    Don't look now, but the modern gay liberation movement started with a violent riot.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 11, 2014 2:16 AM GMT
    slimnmuscly said
    Chase646 said
    HottJoe saidGay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.


    The thing here is that the route taken to make their voices heard is one of violence. Breaking and entering, stealing, etc, etc.
    If they really wanted change and make their voices heard, one would think that people would adopt the route of the Freedom Riders in the 1960s. These people made a difference. They change not only laws but peoples perspectives in the segregated South. And they did this without raising a single fist or breaking a single window.
    ...But apparently we live in a time where fire is only fought with fire. Where people believe that peaceful protests don't work or when they are used they are hijacked by young people who just want an excuse to be crazy.


    Don't look now, but the modern gay liberation movement started with a violent riot.

    By drag queens. Most of the men you see on RJ aren't that brave. They reap the benefits that other people paid the price for. These recent events have shown that white gay men are not there for black gay men, which is something black gay men have said all along.
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    Dec 11, 2014 3:11 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    I don't think that's a possibility in California, but might not be a bad idea - the police seem unable to keep protestors from blocking the interstate highways here. Also, local citizens have to pay for all the police overtime (and overtime of nearby towns' police who come to help out, even if ineffective.) If they used the national guard, the state would be picking up the tab.

    I don't think anyone here cares if they march down the streets all the time. But they should be prevented from blocking trains and highways and subways. The news says to expect them to do it again tonight.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 11, 2014 3:29 AM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    I don't think that's a possibility in California, but might not be a bad idea - the police seem unable to keep protestors from blocking the interstate highways here. Also, local citizens have to pay for all the police overtime (and overtime of nearby towns' police who come to help out, even if ineffective.) If they used the national guard, the state would be picking up the tab.

    I don't think anyone here cares if they march down the streets all the time. But they should be prevented from blocking trains and highways and subways. The news says to expect them to do it again tonight.

    So, you're saying it's time to beef up white supremacy?

    I can't breathe.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Dec 11, 2014 3:44 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Chase646 said
    HottJoe saidGay men would be the first to cry foul if they were being murdered by police. It's just sad that they can't fight for others. I see very few heroes among us. Mainly, you guys have shown that you're indifferent and selfish.


    The thing here is that the route taken to make their voices heard is one of violence. Breaking and entering, stealing, etc, etc.
    If they really wanted change and make their voices heard, one would think that people would adopt the route of the Freedom Riders in the 1960s. These people made a difference. They change not only laws but peoples perspectives in the segregated South. And they did this without raising a single fist or breaking a single window.
    ...But apparently we live in a time where fire is only fought with fire. Where people believe that peaceful protests don't work or when they are used they are hijacked by young people who just want an excuse to be crazy.

    If the movement in 60s was so successful we wouldn't have such an unbalanced unequal society today, or so many black lives being gunned down by police.

    Gay people won civil rights because we have straight allies. There are so few white allies to the black community. Most white people can't be bothered to give a fuck, or if they care it's only because they resent the protesters.

    If the country burns to the ground, it's because white people refused to listen.


    What are you talking about?

    There is no longer inequality in the law. You can argue there is a social issue which has many routes.

    Society and attitudes towards can never be equal. I have a very ethnic last name, but I am "caucasian". Caucuasian, blacks , hispancics have always spent long period of time asking me "what am I?". Its a fact of being human.

    Police brutality is another issue which is a legitimate conversation. It effects everyone. And the point made above the looting and violence I believe is just an anarchist excuse.
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    Dec 11, 2014 3:45 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    HikerSkier said
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    I don't think that's a possibility in California, but might not be a bad idea - the police seem unable to keep protestors from blocking the interstate highways here. Also, local citizens have to pay for all the police overtime (and overtime of nearby towns' police who come to help out, even if ineffective.) If they used the national guard, the state would be picking up the tab.

    I don't think anyone here cares if they march down the streets all the time. But they should be prevented from blocking trains and highways and subways. The news says to expect them to do it again tonight.

    So, you're saying it's time to beef up white supremacy?

    I can't breathe.


    Can you get to an inhaler? Or maybe just an antipsychotic drug?

    We just love how you can connect just everything to some imagined evil conspiracy.

    WTF does preventing protestors from blocking highways and trains have to do with white supremacy???? I don't think there have been any suggestions that the police or guard should be waving neo-nazi banners.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Dec 11, 2014 3:49 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    HikerSkier said
    HottJoe saidWow. You want to sic the national guard on an oppressed community trying to get their voices heard. I had no idea the USA was the new Syria.

    I don't think that's a possibility in California, but might not be a bad idea - the police seem unable to keep protestors from blocking the interstate highways here. Also, local citizens have to pay for all the police overtime (and overtime of nearby towns' police who come to help out, even if ineffective.) If they used the national guard, the state would be picking up the tab.

    I don't think anyone here cares if they march down the streets all the time. But they should be prevented from blocking trains and highways and subways. The news says to expect them to do it again tonight.

    So, you're saying it's time to beef up white supremacy?

    I can't breathe.


    How you interpreted his response as "beefing up white supremacy" is beyond me.

    You need to breath more and maybe read things a few times.

    What I got out of it is that blocking trains and highways is different than just a peaceful protest.

    When you block streets, people die...simple. Especially in a city, ambulances cannot respond to the normal emergency traffic.

    Even if possible, if someone were to "give into" what the protesters wanted, what would it be? There is no clear demand,===, do they want the cops in NYC / Ferguson to be executed? Do we give into them?