Stickers that promote equality for gay scientists

  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    Dec 24, 2014 4:07 PM GMT
    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/2014/12/23/you-are-welcome-here-small-stickers-make-a-big-difference-for-lgbtq-scientists/?WT.mc_id=SA_Facebook

    I think these are great idea. In an ideal world this is pointless but I think this is good.

    Thoughts?

    WHOI_YAWH.gif

    "Long story short, I found my way to an amazing lab in a diverse and welcoming group that set my undergraduate fears to rest while also enabling me to study the microscopic critters in the ocean that keep our planet habitable. However, as I started to think about the transition to the next stage of my science career, my fears cropped up again. I had spent four years ensconced in the freethinking Pacific Northwest, but what if the graduate schools I had applied to were not as accepting?"
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    Dec 24, 2014 6:16 PM GMT
    As if grad students have time for sexuality icon_rolleyes.gif
    If you have enough energy to get an erection, you aren't analyzing enough samples! icon_mad.gif


    I used to have a lab coat with various badges promoting women in science and minorities in science. I don't recall anyone ever handing out one for gays though. Unfortunately, it was hanging out of sight on the back side of my office door and I left it behind when I moved. Had my Star Trek 25th Anniversary communicator badge on it too icon_sad.gif

    As a matter of fact, although gays weren't actually forbidden at government labs back then, they were not allowed to work on anything that required a security clearance, so they would eventually be shuffled out to clerical jobs until they resigned. Which was basically an end to their career, since it looked bad on a resume. The theory was that "foreign agents" would either blackmail them into revealing secrets with the threat of "outing" them, or would seduce them and get them to reveal secrets in "pillow talk." icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 24, 2014 7:31 PM GMT
    It seems slightly odd to target universities since they are usually much more to the left than private industry. I could see there being a problem if you knew that the principal investigator in charge of the lab was a homophobe.
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    Dec 24, 2014 11:36 PM GMT
    Being in the half homophobic science field myself, its not all among coworkers which seem to be a bit more accepting, just a whole lot of management you have to watch out for who might not see a gay person as potential in the promotional department.

    If you are a gay worker bee in science and wish to attract other gay worker bees who might not be out, then these stickers can help foster a friendly environment among coworkers. But if you are the type who may wish to climb ladders, unfortunately, you may wish to not advertise these rainbow stickers or be out at all. We are now just seeing openly gay CEOs (Apple Tim Cook), but even that is only at the very top of the chain which sets a great example for mahogany row and shareholders. Again, unfortunately, this does not translate down into the mid ranks of management. Science is very structured, much like a corporations organization chart. There are many, gay men especially, within the scientific management ranks who are closeted. I actually feel bad for them. They are unable to balance their true personal lives with their work duties, namely, getting and keeping respect from subordinates and top level management. We are not there yet.

    Even the Nerd misfits, were mixed race heterosexual for the most part, but they still welcomed the one gay token



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    Dec 24, 2014 11:58 PM GMT

    Something like this


    il_570xN.673928361_n783.jpg
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    Dec 25, 2014 12:12 AM GMT
    Well there are these guys:
    http://www.noglstp.org/
    45398_457659063791_7249961_n.jpg?oh=f414

    However, their logo is sort of unattractive and I might look around for someone creative enough to come up with a better acronym than that icon_confused.gif
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Dec 25, 2014 12:22 AM GMT
    I agree with Scruff.

    Just recently a guy at my company, a very effective mid-level manager in his late 40s who's quietly gay and unpartnered, was taken aside by upper management and told privately that he's "the wrong demographic" to be promoted to Vice President.

    And this comes right on the heels of a company-wide email crowing about achieving a 100% score on the Human Rights Campaign's Corporate Equality Index!

    In most of corporate America, it's a choice between the closet or the glass ceiling.
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    Dec 26, 2014 8:31 PM GMT
    bro4bro saidI agree with Scruff.

    Just recently a guy at my company, a very effective mid-level manager in his late 40s who's quietly gay and unpartnered, was taken aside by upper management and told privately that he's "the wrong demographic" to be promoted to Vice President.

    And this comes right on the heels of a company-wide email crowing about achieving a 100% score on the Human Rights Campaign's Corporate Equality Index!

    In most of corporate America, it's a choice between the closet or the glass ceiling.



    That is terrible but not unexpected, if this guy was partnered, it might make a slight difference. Being partnered, straight or gay 'show by example' a committed relationship (which is a conservative trait in reality), when that far up the chain, 'get to gathers' among peers are common, spouses meet the other spouses, their kids meet the other kids. Since the company itself shows some sign of diversity promotion, I expect "the wrong demographic" kindly means this gay man does not show enough conservatism (think log cabin republican), typical gay men cruise and hook up with multiple partners. As a gay man, you can be out, but you must be very conservative at this level, or at least pretend to be. If you are not a log cabin republican with any conservative views by nature, you will be rejected. But then you can be your out gay self and continue to be, a worker bee

    I don't know how they do it, the closet or glass ceiling. I thought the whole point of 'bring your entire self to work' was to bridge this gap. Not just in science but I think as long as the conservative base control the corporate strings, we have a long way to go, to be ourselves, no hiding and hold positions of power within conservative science (regardless of the 100% HRC index pony show)

    I literally know some young straight single science engineers whos career wasn't going anywhere, but got married and may have had a child, they now 'moved their game' forward, in the workplace, they are looked at differently now, grown up, responsible, respected, conservative...blah, blah, blah. Its really tragic how single people are treated, viewed and you should already know whos fault this is

    Gay marriage important? Oh Yes, in this respect
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    Dec 27, 2014 6:36 PM GMT
    The second comment to the online Scientific American article perfectly sums up why this type of inclusionary bro-hood is necessary for the LGBT community.
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    Dec 27, 2014 7:51 PM GMT
    It's possible that it might work the other way in academia. When I was sniffing around some tenure track positions, I was told informally by more than one institution, "Well, you can apply, but we won't be hiring any white males for at least the next twenty years or so." Oh, but what if gays became part of "diversity?" One could be, like, the Corporal Klinger of the department! On the other hand, come to think of it, about fifteen of those twenty years have gone by now, and I've been hearing about a lot of retirements lately.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 28, 2014 5:06 PM GMT
    scruffLA said
    bro4bro saidI agree with Scruff.

    Just recently a guy at my company, a very effective mid-level manager in his late 40s who's quietly gay and unpartnered, was taken aside by upper management and told privately that he's "the wrong demographic" to be promoted to Vice President.

    And this comes right on the heels of a company-wide email crowing about achieving a 100% score on the Human Rights Campaign's Corporate Equality Index!

    In most of corporate America, it's a choice between the closet or the glass ceiling.



    That is terrible but not unexpected, if this guy was partnered, it might make a slight difference. Being partnered, straight or gay 'show by example' a committed relationship (which is a conservative trait in reality), when that far up the chain, 'get to gathers' among peers are common, spouses meet the other spouses, their kids meet the other kids. Since the company itself shows some sign of diversity promotion, I expect "the wrong demographic" kindly means this gay man does not show enough conservatism (think log cabin republican), typical gay men cruise and hook up with multiple partners. As a gay man, you can be out, but you must be very conservative at this level, or at least pretend to be. If you are not a log cabin republican with any conservative views by nature, you will be rejected. But then you can be your out gay self and continue to be, a worker bee

    I don't know how they do it, the closet or glass ceiling. I thought the whole point of 'bring your entire self to work' was to bridge this gap. Not just in science but I think as long as the conservative base control the corporate strings, we have a long way to go, to be ourselves, no hiding and hold positions of power within conservative science (regardless of the 100% HRC index pony show)

    I literally know some young straight single science engineers whos career wasn't going anywhere, but got married and may have had a child, they now 'moved their game' forward, in the workplace, they are looked at differently now, grown up, responsible, respected, conservative...blah, blah, blah. Its really tragic how single people are treated, viewed and you should already know whos fault this is

    Gay marriage important? Oh Yes, in this respect

    I did notice that people starting treating me more respectably after I got married. I didn't expect that at all, and it's not the reason I got married (I'm not even remotely conservative, and I daresay I'm more liberal than you are). But it is true that people treat a married man like they are more stable and mature, although it's very subconscious, and it's hard to tell if it's the same for straight men.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 28, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidStickers that promote equality for gay scientists

    Kind of a ridiculous idea.

    Why is it ridiculous?
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    Dec 28, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
    What? No sticker for gay hairdressers?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 28, 2014 5:18 PM GMT
    Radd saidWhat? No sticker for gay hairdressers?

    Stickers are out of fashion for anyone in the fashion/hair industry. Scientists are kinda nerdy though. They might be on the brink of a scientific breakthrough for all of humanity, but they're at least a decade behind the lastest in gay political accessories.
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    Dec 28, 2014 5:31 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Radd saidWhat? No sticker for gay hairdressers?

    Stickers are out of fashion for anyone in the fashion/hair industry. Scientists are kinda nerdy though. They might be on the brink of a scientific breakthrough for all of humanity, but they're at least a decade behind the lastest in gay political accessories.



    gay-hair-stylist.jpg
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    Dec 29, 2014 6:16 PM GMT
    icon_rolleyes.gif Let's work on that reading comprehension thingy...

    The stickers referred to in the OP were for university department windows - not personal accessories. They are supposed to let LGBTQ... students know that they are welcome within.
    Why would the physics department care to welcome hair dressers?

    Einsteinfacts.jpg
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Dec 29, 2014 9:14 PM GMT
    TomSOCAL said
    Are gays allowed these security clearances today, have things changed?


    Gays are allowed to hold security clearances now. With an asterisk.

    There is still the concern that closeted gays can be blackmailed into revealing government secrets under threat of exposing their personal "secret". It seems a little silly in this day and age that someone would be so terrified at being outed that they'd betray their country. But that's the government's concept.

    Now, here's the tricky part...

    Nobody will ever ask you if you're gay. And no one will ever tell you you're required to self-identify. You're just expected to "know" that you're supposed to go to the security office and make a "full disclosure" (whatever that entails). If you don't, you're "hiding" your sexuality, and could be denied a clearance.

    And...

    The government security inspectors can deny a clearance for any reason they choose. All they have to say is, "I don't have a good feeling about this guy." And most of the inspectors are retired military, from even before the era of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. So they just might be slightly biased.

    Meanwhile...

    My company regularly sends out emails warning us that "sexually unruly behavior" can be grounds for denying or revoking a security clearance. The term "unruly" is not further defined; it can mean whatever they want it to. But I'm guessing frequent use of Grindr would be frowned upon. The email also states that "sexual orientation alone" is not grounds for denying a clearance - but the word "alone" clearly implies it is a factor, and the rules for gay people are different than the rules from str8 people.

    Finally...

    While it is now "OK" to be gay in the defense industry (provided you jump through all the right hoops and not the wrong ones), the atmosphere is still anything but welcoming. When two lesbian coworkers of mine got married a few months ago, each one announced her impending marriage but neither felt comfortable about mentioning they were marrying each other. Their work groups each held separate lunchtime celebrations of their weddings, without anyone knowing they were, in fact, the same event.

    I know this all sounds very peculiar to most of you guys but it's the environment some of us live in, right here in the 21st century and with Obama in the White House pulling the strings.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 29, 2014 9:18 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidicon_rolleyes.gif Let's work on that reading comprehension thingy...

    The stickers referred to in the OP were for university department windows - not personal accessories. They are supposed to let LGBTQ... students know that they are welcome within.
    Why would the physics department care to welcome hair dressers?

    Einsteinfacts.jpg

    I think you're the only one who took the accessory comments literally... which is so typical for a scientist! lol, jkicon_lol.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 29, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    bro4bro said
    TomSOCAL said
    Are gays allowed these security clearances today, have things changed?


    Gays are allowed to hold security clearances now. With an asterisk.

    There is still the concern that closeted gays can be blackmailed into revealing government secrets under threat of exposing their personal "secret". It seems a little silly in this day and age that someone would be so terrified at being outed that they'd betray their country. But that's the concept.

    Now, here's the tricky part...

    Nobody will ever ask you if you're gay. And no one will ever tell you you're required to self-identify. You're just expected to "know" that you're supposed to go to the security office and make a "full disclosure" (whatever that entails). If you don't, you're "hiding" your sexuality, and could be denied a clearance.

    And...

    The government security inspectors can deny a clearance for any reason they choose. All they have to say is, "I don't have a good feeling about this guy." And most of the inspectors are retired military, from even before the era of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. So they just might be slightly biased.

    Meanwhile...

    My company regularly sends out emails warning us that "sexually unruly behavior" can be grounds for denying or revoking a security clearance. The term "unruly" is not further defined; it can mean whatever they want it to. But I'm guessing frequent use of Grindr would be frowned upon. The email also states that "sexual orientation alone" is not grounds for denying a clearance - but the word "alone" clearly implies it is a factor, and the rules for gay people are different than the rules from str8 people.

    Finally...

    While it is now "OK" to be gay in the defense industry (provided you jump through all the right hoops and not the wrong ones), the atmosphere is still anything but welcoming. When two lesbian coworkers of mine got married a few months ago, each one announced her impending marriage but neither felt comfortable about mentioning they were marrying each other. Their work groups each held separate lunchtime celebrations of their weddings, without anyone knowing they were, in fact, the same event.

    I know this all sounds very peculiar to most of you guys but it's the environment some of us live in, right here in the 21st century and with Obama in the White House pulling the strings.

    My husband had to get a security clearance for a previous position he held before we were married, and some ex-cop working for the government had to interview me, my family, my husband's family, our friends, etc. It seemed like overkill. Any little thing seemed to raise a red flag, including the types of video games he played, to how "out" he was. They don't want anyone with any personal secrets. Really, what they want are eighteen year olds who haven't had enough life experience to have any sort of record.