Christians Who Throw the Stone Leviticus 18: 22 and 20: 13 Can Be Counterattacked by Leviticus 17: 10-11. Jesus and Paul Violated Leviticus 17: 10-11 with the Bread and Wine Metaphor

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    Dec 30, 2014 9:09 PM GMT
    Attack: You Are an Abomination and as the Muslims Do to Homosexuals, You Could Be Put to Death.

    Lev. 18:22

    ‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)

    Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female"? The term "lie with" here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase "lie with a male as one lies with a female." It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.

    117 occurrences; AV translates as "abomination" 113 times, "abominable thing" twice, and "abominable" twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1
    Lev. 20:13

    "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)
    "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (ESV)

    The word "detestable" is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, "abomination."

    There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death.

    http://carm.org/leviticus-18-22


    Counterattack: Jesus Violated Leviticus 17: 10-11 with the Bread and Wine Metaphor

    Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.
    …I have given the blood to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar…
    Leviticus 17: 10-11

    God’s face is set against Communion. The God of Moses sets His face against the Communion-taker. The God of Jesus sets His face against the Communion-taker. Who is willing to bet Jesus renounced God at the Last Supper?!
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    Dec 30, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
    For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Jesus at Matthew 5: 18

    If Jesus kept this commitment until the day he died, he would not have made the Bread and Wine Metaphor.
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    Dec 31, 2014 3:37 AM GMT
    "Two Things That Could Not Have Been in Q or Pre-AD70 Oral Tradition"

    1) The Bread and Wine Metaphor for Jesus' Body and Blood

    2) The Interpretation That Jesus' Crucifixion Was Sacrificial Lamb of God, Atonement

    Rationale:

    1) The Torah speaks against consuming blood.

    2) The Torah speaks against human sacrifice. Jesus as a sacrifice is not consumed by the Hebrew God

    These major breaks with Judaism would have gotten the disciples chased out of Jerusalem in a manner of Paul leaving an angry Jerusalem for teaching a watered down version of Judaism.

    As long as sacrifices were being conducted at the Temple, it would have been sacrilege to interpret Jesus's death as sacrificial atonement. Romans 3: 25 could have been objectionable to Temple authorities. Romans 3: 25 states: God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.

    The bread and wine metaphor and Jesus as a sacrifice of atonement for sin may not have been part of a public oral tradition in Jerusalem and may not have been part of a publicly circulating Q scripture.
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    Dec 31, 2014 1:18 PM GMT
    Although Paul explains at First Corinthians 10: 18 that Israelite sacrifices were eaten and those who ate them were altar participants, the drinking of blood was not described as an act of participation.
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    Jan 03, 2015 5:30 PM GMT
    Response from a Forum Participant:

    It isn’t credible that James and his messianic church in Jerusalem where they were in the temple daily were using this rite.

    James Tabor argues that when Paul said “For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you” he is referring to a revelation from the risen Jesus. This is a case where conservative Christians do not want to believe it came from Paul and so interpret the words in a familiar traditional way that glosses over “I (Paul) received from the Lord” thinking instead of the blood and wine as going back to the Jerusalem church.

    The bread and wine are also another example of a clear differentiation in the 1st century between the gentile church and the Jewish messianic sect. Following Jesus or believing him to be the Messiah was done within Judaism and did not mean a break from Judaism.


    Stephenoabc

    So, at this critical place, the Lord's Last Supper, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are not oral traditions of the Jerusalem church? !

    What percent of the gospels would be oral traditions of the Gentile vs. the Jerusalem church?
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    Jan 16, 2015 3:23 AM GMT
    Counterattack: Jesus Violated Leviticus 17: 10-11 with the Bread and Wine Metaphor

    Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.
    …I have given the blood to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar…
    Leviticus 17: 10-11

    God’s face is set against Communion. The God of Moses sets His face against the Communion-taker. The God of Jesus sets His face against the Communion-taker. Who is willing to bet Jesus renounced God at the Last Supper?!

    = = =

    When you said, “Seek my face;” my heart said unto you, “Your face, LORD, will I seek.” Psalm 27: 8