Religion of Peace Strikes Again

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    Jan 07, 2015 6:06 PM GMT
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/france-satire-magazine-gunfire/index.html

    RIP to all those who died in this.
    Let's see how long it takes before someone says "this isn't the real Islam, this is just an isolated incident".
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 07, 2015 7:39 PM GMT
    It is real Islam - but not all Islam, any more than christianist fanatics are all Christianity.

    we will never get rid of religion, and I'm not sure we should: much good comes from it, as well as evil. Given that we have religion with us always, better to encourage the good by recognizing it, than alienating all of it by lumping all believers into one group.
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    Jan 07, 2015 7:51 PM GMT
    tazzari said... alienating all of it by lumping all believers into one group.

    I have never heard any public person lump all of Islam into one group. I have only heard them described as radical Islamists who are perverting the religion. IMO the OP referred to Islam as the "Religion of Peace" not to say they are all the same, but as sarcasm directed to those who refuse to use the term "radical Islamists" when that is what they clearly are. That includes Obama and the head of DHS who claimed to not know the nature of the attack. Many believe refusal to characterize the attackers inhibits our ability to defend ourselves.
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    Jan 07, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    tazzari said... alienating all of it by lumping all believers into one group.

    I have never heard any public person lump all of Islam into one group. I have only heard them described as radical Islamists who are perverting the religion. IMO the OP referred to Islam as the "Religion of Peace" not to say they are all the same, but as sarcasm directed to those who refuse to use the term "radical Islamists" when that is what they clearly are. That includes Obama and the head of DHS who claimed to not know the nature of the attack. Many believe refusal to characterize the attackers inhibits our ability to defend ourselves.


    Links please. All I can find are links that show he does indeed know why it happened. lol! ....and he also called it an act of terrorism on freedom of expression.
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    Jan 07, 2015 9:56 PM GMT
    AaronH20P saidhttp://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/france-satire-magazine-gunfire/index.html

    RIP to all those who died in this.
    Let's see how long it takes before someone says "this isn't the real Islam, this is just an isolated incident".


    Bear in mind that the Islamic fanatics want and need you, and everyone, to think that it's all Muslims, and to act on it. They want you and everyone else to lump all Muslims into the same ball of terrorism so that they can gain numbers/recruits and stir up the 1+ billion Muslims on the planet.
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    Jan 07, 2015 10:01 PM GMT

    Here, I'd like you to meet Calgary's very Muslim mayor. Currently, he's speaking out against the Province's bill to get rid of gay/straight alliances in schools.

    He wants them, and feels they are necessary.

    Please read:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/gay-straight-alliance-bill-needs-some-work-says-calgary-mayor-naheed-nenshi-1.2861340
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    Jan 07, 2015 11:21 PM GMT
    One of the satirist who died (and they knew they were terrorist target for their opinions), said once something like :

    The point is not to close mosques, the point is to open more psychiatric facilities.

    So to help them rest in peace, please acknowledge they both had the courage to stand and died for what they believe in, and the wisdom not to blame religion but to blame fanaticism.

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    Jan 07, 2015 11:53 PM GMT
    minox saidOne of the satirist who died (and they knew they were terrorist target for their opinions), said once something like :

    The point is not to close mosques, the point is to open more psychiatric facilities.

    So to help them rest in peace, please acknowledge they both had the courage to stand and died for what they believe in, and the wisdom not to blame religion but to blame fanaticism.

    It is fanaticism not religion, per se, but you can't separate the fact that the terrorists identify themselves as Muslims. If you want to effectively deal with the causes as well as neutralizing the threat, you have to characterize them as accurately as possible.
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    Jan 08, 2015 1:44 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    minox saidOne of the satirist who died (and they knew they were terrorist target for their opinions), said once something like :

    The point is not to close mosques, the point is to open more psychiatric facilities.

    So to help them rest in peace, please acknowledge they both had the courage to stand and died for what they believe in, and the wisdom not to blame religion but to blame fanaticism.

    It is fanaticism not religion, per se, but you can't separate the fact that the terrorists identify themselves as Muslims. If you want to effectively deal with the causes as well as neutralizing the threat, you have to characterize them as accurately as possible.

    Bruce Bawer writes a very poignant analysis of Islam in Europe in his book While Europe Slept.
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Jan 08, 2015 1:51 AM GMT
    These Are The Charlie Hebdo Cartoons That Terrorists Thought Were Worth Killing Over


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-paris-french-newspaper-shooting_n_6429552.html
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    Jan 08, 2015 2:06 AM GMT
    Seriously, I've never been more proud of France.

    And that's aside from the beautiful organized silent protest with the moving "I Am Charlie" signs (neatly printed or written) and pens thoughtfully held high as a symbol of resistance against those that attacked France's national character (of satire).

    Plus a whole slew of new hot faces - The Men of CNN.

    This may be the biggest thing since 9/11, or at least the very start.

    Within the confines of political correctness perhaps we can finally dare to stop apologizing for others and be politically incorrect by admitting some hard truths in our war against terror.
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    Jan 08, 2015 2:32 AM GMT
    One of the thugs turned himself in, and the police are hunting 2 brothers. One would hope that when found, the police would beat the shit out of them, and then shoot them as they are trying to escape.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/youngest-suspect-charlie-hebdo-attack-turns-sought/story?id=28050771
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    Jan 08, 2015 3:23 AM GMT
    Mormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3385

    Jan 08, 2015 3:47 AM GMT
    Interesting that the 2 oldest religions (of those in the "maps of war" presentation) are also the 2 of the 5 which have spread the least.

    Who speaks for Islam?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1090374
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    Jan 08, 2015 4:10 AM GMT
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html



    They forgot to show the millions who died under the failed experiment that was the world's first "atheist civilization" in Eastern Europe and Asia.
    In the brief 70 or so year period atheists were left in charge of anything they managed to kill more people than all religious wars combined. Please show us some of that atheist efficiency with a map depicting the geography of communism.
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    Jan 08, 2015 4:31 AM GMT
    tazzari saidIt is real Islam - but not all Islam, any more than christianist fanatics are all Christianity.

    we will never get rid of religion, and I'm not sure we should: much good comes from it, as well as evil. Given that we have religion with us always, better to encourage the good by recognizing it, than alienating all of it by lumping all believers into one group.



    Ya know, this is their same argument over us gay peoples, "hate the sin, not the sinner", in most of our minds, being gay or having gay sex is not a sin, but the extremists say different, so what? "hate the extremist, not the religion"?, the extremists use their religion to control and everyone else for peace?, I don't buy it, its all brainwashing icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif

  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 08, 2015 4:35 AM GMT
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html



    They forgot to show the millions who died under the failed experiment that was the world's first "atheist civilization" in Eastern Europe and Asia.
    In the brief 70 or so year period atheists were left in charge of anything they managed to kill more people than all religious wars combined. Please show us some of that atheist efficiency with a map depicting the geography of communism.


    good point.

    Its sort of a the common cliche response to denounce terrorism or islamic terrorism, then to quickly rattle off how most Muslims are not like that.

    Here is the problem. Its a complete delusion..... Sure I have colleagues that happen to be Muslim and are kind and gentle people. However does that change the fact that nearly every week or so there is some Islamic Terrorist hitting Western Society in some fashion?

    If you examine a state like Pakistan or Turkey even. Two countries that could be example of modern Islam... what do we find? We find a country that if you happen not to be a Muslim your very life is in danger.

    So how does that prove the theory Islam is peaceful to the world?
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    Jan 08, 2015 4:55 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html



    They forgot to show the millions who died under the failed experiment that was the world's first "atheist civilization" in Eastern Europe and Asia.
    In the brief 70 or so year period atheists were left in charge of anything they managed to kill more people than all religious wars combined. Please show us some of that atheist efficiency with a map depicting the geography of communism.


    good point.

    Its sort of a the common cliche response to denounce terrorism or islamic terrorism, then to quickly rattle off how most Muslims are not like that.

    Here is the problem. Its a complete delusion..... Sure I have colleagues that happen to be Muslim and are kind and gentle people. However does that change the fact that nearly every week or so there is some Islamic Terrorist hitting Western Society in some fashion?

    If you examine a state like Pakistan or Turkey even. Two countries that could be example of modern Islam... what do we find? We find a country that if you happen not to be a Muslim your very life is in danger.

    So how does that prove the theory Islam is peaceful to the world?



    What about the Christian terrorists in our own back yard? They love to point their self righteous fingers at other extremists, of other religions, so they appear to be less extreme than those of competing religions. My guess is the Christian terrorists are still at war with the Islamic terrorists after a 1,000 years of constant stupidity...with neither of them solving anything except elevated egos..

    There're all nuts! icon_rolleyes.gif

    Buddy_christ.jpg
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    Jan 08, 2015 4:56 AM GMT
    "The aim is to laugh," Leger told BFM-TV in 2012. "We want to laugh at the extremists -- every extremist. They can be Muslim, Jewish, Catholic. Everyone can be religious, but extremist thoughts and acts we cannot accept."

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/charlie-hebdo-controversy/index.html
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    Jan 08, 2015 5:07 AM GMT
    2bnaked said"The aim is to laugh," Leger told BFM-TV in 2012. "We want to laugh at the extremists -- every extremist. They can be Muslim, Jewish, Catholic. Everyone can be religious, but extremist thoughts and acts we cannot accept."

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/charlie-hebdo-controversy/index.html



    Aim is to laugh? How about something a bit more harsh, say prison? Oh, that's right, not Christians and their perceived persecution, only the other religions and their extremists...
    oh the hypocrisy icon_rolleyes.gif
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 08, 2015 6:10 AM GMT
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html





    What about the Christian terrorists in our own back yard? They love to point their self righteous fingers at other extremists, of other religions, so they appear to be less extreme than those of competing religions. My guess is the Christian terrorists are still at war with the Islamic terrorists after a 1,000 years of constant stupidity...with neither of them solving anything except elevated egos..

    There're all nuts! icon_rolleyes.gif

    Buddy_christ.jpg


    Lets go over those "christian terrorists" who are they and what acts do they commit.

    Are these extremist beheading people? taking hostages? Its a complete distortion.

    To assume the enemy of my enemy is my friend here is very foolish.
    The fact that a Islamist may persecute a Christian does not mean that he will shake your hand because you have some core anti christian feelings. Your just as much or more of a infidel.

    In proportion to Christianities numbers christian "terrorism" is rare.
    Again very ODD when another bought of Muslim terror hits the news and you have to discuss Christian Extremism.
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    Jan 08, 2015 7:51 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif



    How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html





    What about the Christian terrorists in our own back yard? They love to point their self righteous fingers at other extremists, of other religions, so they appear to be less extreme than those of competing religions. My guess is the Christian terrorists are still at war with the Islamic terrorists after a 1,000 years of constant stupidity...with neither of them solving anything except elevated egos..

    There're all nuts! icon_rolleyes.gif

    Buddy_christ.jpg


    Lets go over those "christian terrorists" who are they and what acts do they commit.

    Are these extremist beheading people? taking hostages? Its a complete distortion.

    To assume the enemy of my enemy is my friend here is very foolish.
    The fact that a Islamist may persecute a Christian does not mean that he will shake your hand because you have some core anti christian feelings. Your just as much or more of a infidel.

    In proportion to Christianities numbers christian "terrorism" is rare.
    Again very ODD when another bought of Muslim terror hits the news and you have to discuss Christian Extremism.


    While 'terrorism' is defined as violent acts intended to create fear, there is the fear itself, namely, the psychology behind fear. While Islam may use their violent physical acts to create fear, Christians use psychology to create a mirror of the same fear, both forms are abuse of power and both are used to control and submit their subjects minds. Its not distortion, you only are seeing it from a physical standpoint.
    Psychological Abuse Just As Damaging As Physical Abuse
    http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/07/31/psychological-abuse-just-as-damaging-as-physical-abuse/42417.html

    Examples of Christian terrorism:

    1) The right wing, republicans military (Bush, Cheney) acceptance and use of torture techniques, these are non violent acts but certainly are a psychological form of terror (fear).
    2) Extortion, Blackmail, Coercion, Sabotage are all forms of psychological fear against its victims, these methods of control are favorites of the right wing and their republicans.
    3) Their Bible thumping, this should be self explanatory, they teach there people to 'fear' God, since the right wing claim to be 'ordained', therefore the people tend to fear the man doing the preaching as well in the form of shaming (fear of going to hell, not be saved, you must confess)(Islam with Koran, same fear based shaming)
    4) History examples of Jim Jones and David Koresh, these men used their Christian psychological fear to get people, who couldn't think for themselves, to fight the non-believers so they would be saved.
    5) Current agenda: attempt to keep the population in psychological fear, fear of living everyday life, fear of home, fear of shopping, fear of driving, fear of sex, fear of other people or races, fear of dying, fear of government, fear of money etc
    6) History of using psychological fear to intimidate, influence and win elections, pretty obvious one here. (gay card)
    7) Their own media propaganda machine, every time there is Islamic violence against a Christian, their media turn to the Christian terrorists in politics for commentary, to of course, skew points of view and continue to promote the fear towards their listeners. (while Islamic terrorists do them same thing with their own propaganda media channels by showing beheadings)
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    Jan 08, 2015 2:21 PM GMT
    Modern Christianity seems to be practicing the "hate the sin, love the sinner" philosophy.

    Islam, on the other hand, is practicing "hate the sin, hate the sinner."

    Attempting to argue that the two are equivalent is an exercise in sophistry -- both dishonest and deceptive. Even worse, some of those making the argument believe what they're saying.

    How can one argue that the assassination of twelve people over political cartoons is equivalent to anything that's happening in the US? The loony Westboro Baptists are annoying, but they're not killing anyone. And they're denounced by mainstream Christianity. Muslims seem unwilling to speak out against the terrorists in their midst.

    Imagine the reaction if Andres Serrano had done a "Piss MuḼammad" rather than a "Piss Christ". He's still alive, at age 64. Had he done a photo of the Prophet suspended in a bottle of urine, he wouldn't be today.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/piss-christ-sale_n_5317545.html

    At least some of you can take comfort in the fact that no water-boarding was done in the commission of yesterday's crimes.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 08, 2015 3:06 PM GMT
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif




    Examples of Christian terrorism:

    1) The right wing, republicans military (Bush, Cheney) acceptance and use of torture techniques, these are non violent acts but certainly are a psychological form of terror (fear).
    2) Extortion, Blackmail, Coercion, Sabotage are all forms of psychological fear against its victims, these methods of control are favorites of the right wing and their republicans.
    3) Their Bible thumping, this should be self explanatory, they teach there people to 'fear' God, since the right wing claim to be 'ordained', therefore the people tend to fear the man doing the preaching as well in the form of shaming (fear of going to hell, not be saved, you must confess)(Islam with Koran, same fear based shaming)
    4) History examples of Jim Jones and David Koresh, these men used their Christian psychological fear to get people, who couldn't think for themselves, to fight the non-believers so they would be saved.
    5) Current agenda: attempt to keep the population in psychological fear, fear of living everyday life, fear of home, fear of shopping, fear of driving, fear of sex, fear of other people or races, fear of dying, fear of government, fear of money etc
    6) History of using psychological fear to intimidate, influence and win elections, pretty obvious one here. (gay card)
    7) Their own media propaganda machine, every time there is Islamic violence against a Christian, their media turn to the Christian terrorists in politics for commentary, to of course, skew points of view and continue to promote the fear towards their listeners. (while Islamic terrorists do them same thing with their own propaganda media channels by showing beheadings)



    Ok, you can think that Bush and Cheney are "christian terrorists" However they were elected President / Vice President .

    In fact the war(s) that involved the conflict were in fact spurred by Islamic terrorist ( 9/11 and World Trade Center towers blind sheik were planned and initiated during Clinton's time)

    Its hard to have a constructive discussion with someone with such a warped definition of "terrorist".
    Jim Jones and David Koresh did not hijack planes, plant bombs or reach out to plan destruction of others. Sure they are examples of bad Christians.

    Their own media propaganda machine, every time there is Islamic violence against a Christian, their media turn to the Christian terrorists in politics for commentary, to of course,

    You can ignore or minimize the issue. But very few people share your view. These attacks were direct attacks on freedom of speech. The publication satirized both Christians and Muslims.
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    Jan 08, 2015 3:18 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    scruffLA said
    musclmed said
    AaronH20P said
    scruffLA saidMormonism, Catholicism... there're all problem creating nut jobs who lost the original message of "peace" and turned it into "control"! icon_twisted.gif




    Examples of Christian terrorism:

    1) The right wing, republicans military (Bush, Cheney) acceptance and use of torture techniques, these are non violent acts but certainly are a psychological form of terror (fear).
    2) Extortion, Blackmail, Coercion, Sabotage are all forms of psychological fear against its victims, these methods of control are favorites of the right wing and their republicans.
    3) Their Bible thumping, this should be self explanatory, they teach there people to 'fear' God, since the right wing claim to be 'ordained', therefore the people tend to fear the man doing the preaching as well in the form of shaming (fear of going to hell, not be saved, you must confess)(Islam with Koran, same fear based shaming)
    4) History examples of Jim Jones and David Koresh, these men used their Christian psychological fear to get people, who couldn't think for themselves, to fight the non-believers so they would be saved.
    5) Current agenda: attempt to keep the population in psychological fear, fear of living everyday life, fear of home, fear of shopping, fear of driving, fear of sex, fear of other people or races, fear of dying, fear of government, fear of money etc
    6) History of using psychological fear to intimidate, influence and win elections, pretty obvious one here. (gay card)
    7) Their own media propaganda machine, every time there is Islamic violence against a Christian, their media turn to the Christian terrorists in politics for commentary, to of course, skew points of view and continue to promote the fear towards their listeners. (while Islamic terrorists do them same thing with their own propaganda media channels by showing beheadings)



    Ok, you can think that Bush and Cheney are "christian terrorists" However they were elected President / Vice President .

    In fact the war(s) that involved the conflict were in fact spurred by Islamic terrorist ( 9/11 and World Trade Center towers blind sheik were planned and initiated during Clinton's time)

    Its hard to have a constructive discussion with someone with such a warped definition of "terrorist".
    Jim Jones and David Koresh did not hijack planes, plant bombs or reach out to plan destruction of others. Sure they are examples of bad Christians.

    Their own media propaganda machine, every time there is Islamic violence against a Christian, their media turn to the Christian terrorists in politics for commentary, to of course,

    You can ignore or minimize the issue. But very few people share your view. These attacks were direct attacks on freedom of speech. The publication satirized both Christians and Muslims.


    "In fact the war(s) that involved the conflict were in fact spurred by Islamic terrorist ( 9/11 and World Trade Center towers blind sheik were planned and initiated during Clinton's time)"

    And we did have a preview in 1993 with the WTC bombing.