Prayers for those French killed...

  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Jan 09, 2015 8:09 PM GMT
    As Americans, we stand by the French citizens going through yesterday's and today's attacks.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 09, 2015 8:19 PM GMT
    Do you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Jan 10, 2015 5:05 AM GMT
    I meant prayer...and I am a christian, but you have the right to believe the way you do. Lastly, you say "we're secular", do you mean Americans ? American was formed by individuals who wanted religious freedom.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 10, 2015 5:34 AM GMT
    mybud saidI meant prayer...and I am a christian, but you have the right to believe the way you do. Lastly, you say "we're secular", do you mean Americans ? American was formed by individuals who wanted religious freedom.


    I understood what you meant. So did 99.9% of the rest of the world as a positive statement.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 10, 2015 2:26 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    mybud saidI meant prayer...and I am a christian, but you have the right to believe the way you do. Lastly, you say "we're secular", do you mean Americans ? American was formed by individuals who wanted religious freedom.


    I understood what you meant. So did 99.9% of the rest of the world as a positive statement.

    I know he meant it as a positive statement. I'm of Christian heritage, but I'm agnostic. I think religion brainwashes people. All of the main religions have persecuted gays. I think if we all lost religions, we'd have one less thing to fight about. Religion is a nasty cancer of humanity. I don't think a creator would discriminate against any of us, or favor those who pray. That would be too egotistical and shallow for a supreme being anyway. It's just illogical, and it pits one false belief system against another. We'd be better off if the majorities of the world were atheist, and if more cartoons than ever mocked religion.
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    Jan 10, 2015 3:11 PM GMT
    Prayer is a religious activity and would take many different forms

    From a Christian perspective, it would be foolish for Protestants to pray for the dead as they do not believe in purgation after death as Catholics do. My understanding is that the Protestant belief is that your fate is sealed with death and that all the prayers in the world will not release you from Hell. If you are already in Heaven, you don't need prayers. Catholic teaching is that when you die you have to be purged for a time from the vestigial effects of your forgiven sins. This is done in a place (not a physical place) called purgatory. Catholic teaching says we can reduce souls' time in purgatory through prayer and other forms of mercy offered up for their release into paradise. I don't know what the Orthodox believe on prayers for the dead but I assume they do it. I don't know what modern Jews and Muslims do as far as prayers for the dead go.

    Here's my prayer: Dear god deliver us from the terror and tyranny of your followers. Amen.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 10, 2015 3:22 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidPrayer is a religious activity and would take many different forms

    From a Christian perspective, it would be foolish for Protestants to pray for the dead as they do not believe in purgation after death as Catholics do. My understanding is that the Protestant belief is that your fate is sealed with death and that all the prayers in the world will not release you from Hell. If you are already in Heaven, you don't need prayers. Catholic teaching is that when you die you have to be purged for a time from the vestigial effects of your forgiven sins. This is done in a place (not a physical place) called purgatory. Catholic teaching says we can reduce souls' time in purgatory through prayer and other forms of mercy offered up for their release into paradise. I don't know what the Orthodox believe on prayers for the dead but I assume they do it. I don't know what modern Jews and Muslims do as far as prayers for the dead go.

    Here's my prayer: Dear god deliver us from the terror and tyranny of your followers. Amen.

    Qft! The nuts have taken over asylum down here.icon_sad.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jan 10, 2015 4:30 PM GMT

    The violent attacks in Paris are a despicable violent crime. Unfortunately we are going to have to face the sad fact that Paris is like any big major city with serious urban ills which include violent, anti-social behavior like these sick minded Jihadists storming a newspaper office and killing people. All this propaganda stating that major European cities are perfectly safe and crime free is a baseless crock of shit. The exact same thing could be said for Australian and Canadian cities as well, they all have serious problems and their cities and even smaller communities are going through major demographic and social changes. No place is perfectly safe and problem free, crime and violence can occur anywhere at anytime without warning. That is just part of the human condition.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 10, 2015 5:41 PM GMT
    pazzy said
    roadbikeRob said
    No place is perfectly safe and problem free, crime and violence can occur anywhere at anytime without warning. That is just part of the human condition.


    the more people have that mindset towards the world then folks will stop being scared of living life. you can get killed anywhere anytime whether it's in your house or chilling at a department store. you're going to die anyway. shouldn't stop you from living life or going outside and having a good time. if you're worried, just buy yourself life insurance.

    I think attacks on freedom of speech make people especially fearful. No one wants to be silenced, but they are afraid to speak.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jan 10, 2015 5:49 PM GMT

    Like I previously said, Paris is like any big, major city. It has its serious urban ills and drawbacks. Paris along with other European, Australian, Canadian and even Japanese cities are all experiencing more urban problems because of the changing social order of the world. Crime and violence can break out in any of these cities at anytime without warning. To consider all these cities to be perfectly safe and crime free is total nonsense. Cities in Europe, Australia, Canada, and Japan are safer than US cities for the most part but they are not perfectly safe or free of crime and violence. Serious problems can erupt in any big, major city.
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    Jan 10, 2015 8:17 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    UndercoverMan saidPrayer is a religious activity and would take many different forms

    ...

    Here's my prayer: Dear god deliver us from the terror and tyranny of your followers. Amen.

    Qft! The nuts have taken over asylum down here.icon_sad.gif


    It's not that the nuts have taken over, it's more like they they are frustrated in their unsuccessful attempts to takeover the asylum and are therefore resorting to more and more violent measures to do so. What I'm afraid of is that it's going to get worse before it gets better. I also see in the future a possible violent backlash on good people of faith who would never condone or participate in unjust violence.
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    Jan 11, 2015 5:58 AM GMT
    Wonderful Mybud Eternal Rest grant unto them O Lord and Let Perpetual light shine upon them.May their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed through the mercy of God,rest in peace.This carnage will only end when we start enforcing our immigration laws and limit Muslim immigration into the west.The stupidity and ignorance of our leaders is mind boggling.The terrorism needs to be directed to the open borders crowd.
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    Jan 11, 2015 6:32 AM GMT
    oh-the-irony.jpeg
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 11, 2015 4:23 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidWonderful Mybud Eternal Rest grant unto them O Lord and Let Perpetual light shine upon them.May their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed through the mercy of God,rest in peace.This carnage will only end when we start enforcing our immigration laws and limit Muslim immigration into the west.The stupidity and ignorance of our leaders is mind boggling.The terrorism needs to be directed to the open borders crowd.

    Are you calling for a jihad against liberals?
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    Jan 12, 2015 4:23 AM GMT
    No hot Joe but when the academic/leftists demand that people accept the idea of open immigration and open borders and ignore the will of the people I think it may be time for some civil disobedience.I see the rise of a popular backlash to these policies in Germany and France soon.I hope so.The people's will should be followed or the govt loses its purpose and has to go.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 12, 2015 5:10 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidNo hot Joe but when the academic/leftists demand that people accept the idea of open immigration and open borders and ignore the will of the people I think it may be time for some civil disobedience.I see the rise of a popular backlash to these policies in Germany and France soon.I hope so.The people's will should be followed or the govt loses its purpose and has to go.

    Christianity is not a democracy. They dictate rules they say are God's laws. There's no voting. At best, there's cherry picking. It's really no different from Islam. And you are an example of a very "wicked" Christian extremist.
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    Jan 12, 2015 5:24 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidDo you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.


    We get it. You're not Christian and you're not White. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 12, 2015 5:29 PM GMT
    Radd said
    HottJoe saidDo you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.


    We get it. You're not Christian and you're not White. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Which is very liberating. I'm a free thinker and not limited by tribal superstitions or melanin content.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jan 12, 2015 6:16 PM GMT
    I think some anti-theists read the anti-establishment clause to the 1st Amendment, but failed to read the free-exercise clause. How utterly predictable.

    At any rate, as a proud liberal (and not fundamentalist) Catholic, I second OPs sentiments. France is technically our oldest ally, and when everything comes out in the shake it's the free world versus fascists. History teaches us that fascists never prevail in the long term.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 12, 2015 6:28 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidI think some anti-theists read the anti-establishment clause to the 1st Amendment, but failed to read the free-exercise clause. How utterly predictable.

    At any rate, as a proud liberal (and not fundamentalist) Catholic, I second OPs sentiments. France is technically our oldest ally, and when everything comes out in the shake it's the free world versus fascists. History teaches us that fascists never prevail in the long term.

    Wrong. Atheists aren't anti-theists. Atheists are hated by all religions for simply calling them all fake. Being able to say religion is FAKE is part of freedom of religion.

    Edit: I'm not even atheist, but I still think this prayer thread is divisive.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jan 12, 2015 6:38 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think some anti-theists read the anti-establishment clause to the 1st Amendment, but failed to read the free-exercise clause. How utterly predictable.

    At any rate, as a proud liberal (and not fundamentalist) Catholic, I second OPs sentiments. France is technically our oldest ally, and when everything comes out in the shake it's the free world versus fascists. History teaches us that fascists never prevail in the long term.

    Wrong. Atheists aren't anti-theists. Atheists are hated by all religions for simply calling them all fake. Being able to say religion is FAKE is part of freedom of religion.

    Edit: I'm not even atheist, but I still think this prayer thread is divisive.


    I have no problem with atheists calling religion fake. I have no problem with atheists in general. I categorically have a problem with anti-theists, who are affirmatively against religion and take EVERY opportunity to push their atheist agenda...even during a terror attack and an OPs simple posting of support and "prayers" for France and its people.

    An analogy would be the Westboro Church. I have no problem that the WBP members have views that I disagree with. But I do have a problem with the time and place they choose to air those views (i.e., during funerals).
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 12, 2015 6:54 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think some anti-theists read the anti-establishment clause to the 1st Amendment, but failed to read the free-exercise clause. How utterly predictable.

    At any rate, as a proud liberal (and not fundamentalist) Catholic, I second OPs sentiments. France is technically our oldest ally, and when everything comes out in the shake it's the free world versus fascists. History teaches us that fascists never prevail in the long term.

    Wrong. Atheists aren't anti-theists. Atheists are hated by all religions for simply calling them all fake. Being able to say religion is FAKE is part of freedom of religion.

    Edit: I'm not even atheist, but I still think this prayer thread is divisive.


    I have no problem with atheists calling religion fake. I have no problem with atheists in general. I categorically have a problem with anti-theists, who are affirmatively against religion and take EVERY opportunity to push their atheist agenda...even during a terror attack and an OPs simple posting of support and "prayers" for France and its people.

    An analogy would be the Westboro Church. I have no problem that the WBP members have views that I disagree with. But I do have a problem with the time and place they choose to air those views (i.e., during funerals).

    It sounds like you have a lot of problems. I'm sorry I'm one of them. I just am disgusted by religion. Music unites the world, because you can listen to any of it. Religion divides the world because you can only pick one. The moment you stray from one, you are unfaithful. It's like you have to be monogamous to an idea that is not founded in truth or fact. Religion is not democratic, it's not free, it's not even decent. It's a dragon. It's a myth that scares people into submission.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jan 13, 2015 5:44 PM GMT
    Radd said
    HottJoe saidDo you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.


    We get it. You're not Christian and you're not White. icon_rolleyes.gif
    He is a blathering, bumbling idiot, that part we all know.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 13, 2015 5:49 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Radd said
    HottJoe saidDo you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.


    We get it. You're not Christian and you're not White. icon_rolleyes.gif
    He is a blathering, bumbling idiot, that part we all know.

    Do I at least get points for NOT being a screwball religious fundamentalist???

    Heck, I'm not even a grammar Nazi!icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 13, 2015 5:51 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Radd said
    HottJoe saidDo you mean pray as Christians? We're secular. We shouldn't combat religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. This isn't the crusades anymore. I don't think prayer is part of a political solution at all.


    We get it. You're not Christian and you're not White. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Which is very liberating. I'm a free thinker and not limited by tribal superstitions or melanin content.


    You are the complete opposite of a "free thinker." You're a sheep. A sheep who has been taught to hate your own race because you're infested with White Guilt. I've never once witnessed you having an original thought. You just regurgitate what you hear from the other bleeding heart liberals. Much like Rush Limbaugh really.....only on the opposite end of the spectrum.