Should the T be dropped from LGBT?

  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    Gay marriage recently became legal in Florida and it made me realize something: the Trans community and the gay community have very little in common. There's some overlap like having to deal with a heteronormative society and coming out and such. But outside of that the experiences needs and legal pathways for both groups are vastly different. I sympathize and support the Trans community but a part of me is tired of them being lumped in with us. A very large percentage of them after they transition are straight. Don't get me wrong there's some gay and lesbian ones buy I feel as frequently tieing them into the gay and lesbian community doesn't really do either groups much justice.


    What do you think?
  • Hjalmar

    Posts: 97

    Jan 11, 2015 7:33 PM GMT
    Well, not really, even if I think for them it´s more of a mental thing than sexual imo. They belong into the minority like we do in the eyes of heterosexuals. And I also think they are really strange.....Only last week I heard some trans people using term cis scum in the net about men. What the hell ??!????! I do not consider myself as scum, they are...... icon_twisted.gif

    Do they want war ?
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    Jan 11, 2015 7:37 PM GMT
    I thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 7:39 PM GMT
    Hjalmar saidWell, not really, even if I think for them it´s more of a mental thing than sexual imo. They belong into the minority like we do in the eyes of heterosexuals. And I also think they are really strange.....Only last week I heard some trans people using term cis scum in the net about men. What the hell ??!????! I do not consider myself as scum, they are...... icon_twisted.gif

    Do they want war ?


    I do agree with some people who dislike the term cisgender because its a term given to them and not one they actively got to.choose
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    Jan 11, 2015 7:40 PM GMT
    I've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 7:48 PM GMT
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.


    I meanthere are some people who although identify as male express themselves differently but are also gay. Like drag Queens. Last night I hung out with a drag queen friend who otherwise is a very masculine acting brutal top. I think feeling as if you were different.meant to be a separate gender is
  • Hjalmar

    Posts: 97

    Jan 11, 2015 7:52 PM GMT
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.



    okay, this
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    Jan 11, 2015 7:56 PM GMT
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.

    LGBT is mostly a political statement, not a clinical one. The idea is to gather non-straights together into a unified group, with similar political goals.
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    Jan 11, 2015 8:03 PM GMT
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.
    Why are you insulted? Trans suffer more than gays do. Considering what we go through, we should have some empathy for those who are transgender. In addition, the biological causes of orientation are similar to the causes of transgenderism.
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    Jan 11, 2015 8:06 PM GMT
    Fiyero27 said
    Radd saidI've been saying this for years. I'm a little insulted that being gay is lumped together with gender confusion. That's what a lot of straight people think already so it's ridiculous to have that including under the same banner.
    Why are you insulted? Trans suffer more than gays do. Considering what we go through, we should have some empathy for those who are transgender. In addition, the biological causes of orientation are similar to the causes of transgenderism.


    This is not about empathy. It's about the ridiculousness of putting two entirely different issues under the same banner. People of minority races have it hard too and so do Little People. Do you want to include them too?
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 8:53 PM GMT
    I think to better address the hardships and struggleds both groups deal With they should be separate groups
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    Jan 11, 2015 9:16 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.


    Actually Bob we are up to 10- LGBTQQAAIP.
    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans*, queer, questioning, asexual, agender, intersex, pansexual.

    Try getting all that on a bumper sticker! At some point it starts to get a bit ridiculous. And that doesn't even count the ways we divide ourselves within each letter.
    Guys have masc, fem, bears, jocks, pups, cubs, otters, wolves, Ken dolls... I'm sure there are more I haven't heard of yet!

    My name is Jared and I'm in love with a man. Call me whatever you want.
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    Jan 11, 2015 9:49 PM GMT
    Inque saidI think to better address the hardships and struggleds both groups deal With they should be separate groups


    Good grief. There is power in numbers. Think about this.

    It's an umbrella for orientations other than plain old heterosexual that require assistance in obtaining equality etc.

    Oh second thought - nevermind. You should have thought of this yourself.
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    Jan 11, 2015 9:56 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi said
    Art_Deco saidI thought the trend was to add MORE letters. Aren't we up to 6 or something? I liked GLBT, still haven't figured out why we switched to LGBT.

    Actually Bob we are up to 10- LGBTQQAAIP.
    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans*, queer, questioning, asexual, agender, intersex, pansexual.

    Try getting all that on a bumper sticker! At some point it starts to get a bit ridiculous. And that doesn't even count the ways we divide ourselves within each letter.
    Guys have masc, fem, bears, jocks, pups, cubs, otters, wolves, Ken dolls... I'm sure there are more I haven't heard of yet!

    My name is Jared and I'm in love with a man. Call me whatever you want.

    "Agender"? What the hell is that? And I'm not sure if I know what an "intersexual" is, either. I know a pansexual is something freedomisntfree has lately claimed to be, when he's not making up some other explanation for his elusive orientation. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 11:33 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Inque saidI think to better address the hardships and struggleds both groups deal With they should be separate groups


    Good grief. There is power in numbers. Think about this.

    It's an umbrella for orientations other than plain old heterosexual that require assistance in obtaining equality etc.

    Oh second thought - nevermind. You should have thought of this yourself.







    I think originally when both groups were struggling for visibility this rang true but here we are living in a world where in India you can go to jail for being gay but being transgendered is openly celebrated. Same in Iran. The Trans community in America and abroad hasn't really been pulling its weight. Gays lesbians and bisexuals have consistently gone to bat for Trans people but we rarely get the same support. I think we should start pushing them out onto their own. Same goes for all the other letters that aren't the l g or b.
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    Jan 11, 2015 11:44 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Inque saidI think to better address the hardships and struggleds both groups deal With they should be separate groups


    Good grief. There is power in numbers. Think about this.

    It's an umbrella for orientations other than plain old heterosexual that require assistance in obtaining equality etc.

    Oh second thought - nevermind. You should have thought of this yourself.


    500px-Wannagirl.jpeg
    Yes, there is power in numbers but not when one of those numbers is a weak link. I feel transgenders have held back gay rights, not helped them. So many of these people look and behave like circus freaks it makes us all look crazy. Please tell me what other races are included under the umbrella of the NAACP. Although if you ask me, they really should include all other races because that is a related cause.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 11, 2015 11:44 PM GMT
    The T stays. Transgendered people have the closet trap and face homophobia too. They need the community just as much as anyone else who is not straight.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 11:51 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidThe T stays. Transgendered people have the closet trap and face homophobia too. They need the community just as much as anyone else who is not straight.









    Yes but many if not most live their lives as straight people.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 11, 2015 11:53 PM GMT
    Radd said
    meninlove said
    Inque saidI think to better address the hardships and struggleds both groups deal With they should be separate groups


    Good grief. There is power in numbers. Think about this.

    It's an umbrella for orientations other than plain old heterosexual that require assistance in obtaining equality etc.

    Oh second thought - nevermind. You should have thought of this yourself.


    500px-Wannagirl.jpeg
    Yes, there is power in numbers but not when one of those numbers is a weak link. I feel transgenders have held back gay rights, not helped them. So many of these people look and behave like circus freaks it makes us all look crazy. Please tell me what other races are included under the umbrella of the NAACP. Although if you ask me, they really should include all other races because that is a related cause.


    Actually you bring up a good point. How come latinos and Asians aren't included?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 12, 2015 12:19 AM GMT
    It's a little late in history to start separating gender identities from sexual orientation. There is overlap in the sense that trans people challenge gender roles in the same way that same-sex relationships do.

    Of course being grouped together has not worked well for trans people because there has been much less progress with their rights globally than for the LGB. But you could also argue that trying to advance too many things at once would have resulted in slower progress for everyone. Society doesn't have that kind of attention span.

    I am, however, in favour of getting rid of the stupid acronym and replacing it with a term that doesn't have to be an alphabet soup. Once a new identity creates enough momentum, they start complaining about why they don't have a letter in the acronym. I remember watching a video where a group was advocating for GSI = Gender and Sexual Identities.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 12, 2015 12:20 AM GMT
    Inque said
    HottJoe saidThe T stays. Transgendered people have the closet trap and face homophobia too. They need the community just as much as anyone else who is not straight.









    Yes but many if not most live their lives as straight people.

    If they live their lives as straight and pass, then they are straight. For the ones that don't have that privilege, they are often in similar circumstances as gay men, in that they are called gay and face typically even more aggressive homophobia. Transgendered people are often abused, including by gay people, like anyone that degrades them or kicks them out of the club.

    You have said you don't believe in the gay community. Why kick people out of something you don't even recognize?
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 12, 2015 12:25 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Inque said
    HottJoe saidThe T stays. Transgendered people have the closet trap and face homophobia too. They need the community just as much as anyone else who is not straight.









    Yes but many if not most live their lives as straight people.

    If they live their lives as straight and pass, then they are straight. For the ones that don't have that privilege, they are often in similar circumstances as gay men, in that they are called gay and face typically even more aggressive homophobia. Transgendered people are often abused, including by gay people, like anyone that degrades them or kicks them out of the club.

    You have said you don't believe in the gay community. Why kick people out of something you don't even recognize?


    I'm speaking mostly from a political standpoint. It just seems like they don't contribute much and in fact only ride our coattails. I want them to have equal rights and I'll fight alongside them but not as a brother but as an ally because we really don't have the same fight.
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    Jan 12, 2015 12:37 AM GMT
    Inque said
    I'm speaking mostly from a political standpoint. It just seems like they don't contribute much and in fact only ride our coattails. I want them to have equal rights and I'll fight alongside them but not as a brother but as an ally because we really don't have the same fight.


    Actually you've got this backwards. The LGB side hasn't done much for the T. There aren't very many people who know what kind of rights trans people are fighting for.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 12, 2015 12:44 AM GMT
    go_dreaming said
    Inque said
    I'm speaking mostly from a political standpoint. It just seems like they don't contribute much and in fact only ride our coattails. I want them to have equal rights and I'll fight alongside them but not as a brother but as an ally because we really don't have the same fight.


    Actually you've got this backwards. The LGB side hasn't done much for the T. There aren't very many people who know what kind of rights trans people are fighting for.


    The Trans community really hasn't earned our support even though in my opinion we give it in spades. We fought for a Trans inclusive enda and we consistently fight for bills allowing protections for gender expression. We don't really get the same return though and having them associated with us isn't helping gay acceptance in my opinion. I actually think more are straight men are understanding of men becoming women than men being men and loving other men. In fact its almost like assimilation.
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    Jan 12, 2015 1:01 AM GMT
    I don't know what you're expecting trans people to do to "earn our support". It's not like the separate communities take turns in vouching for each other. Gays and Lesbians are the most visible since they come in larger numbers than trans people do.

    And as far as LGB people giving support "in spades" it's hardly the case. When they tried to pass ENDA in the mid 2000's, they dropped transgender protections in an effort to get it passed so that there would be protections for sexual orientation only. Again, you could argue that it would have been better to get rights for one group and then focus on the other, but the bill never passed anyway. If you were a trans person, wouldn't you feel like your "allies" had cheated you?