Religion vs The Enlightenment

  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jan 21, 2015 12:49 PM GMT
    I am SO confused about all of these posts since the Charlie Hebdo murders.

    I am a Son of the Enlightenment, which developed almost 300 years ago, not 3 months ago, so this is nothing new.

    But I cannot remember the last time someone asked me how "deeply, seriously, and sincerely offended" I am (and I am) that "followers" of a Palestinian "risen from the dead" 2,000 years ago, and, say, a 7th-century mass murdering pedophile continue to insist that I have to "respect" them.

    So, as I said, I am grossly offended by these anti-intellectual clowns; am I going to go out and kill them because I am offended? Are they going to want to kill me because they're offended?

    A report in today's Guardian has the former head of Britain's intelligence service "not justifying, but explaining..." why the terrorists in Paris did what they did. So, post-Enlightenment, let's try that in a court of law: "I'm not justifying, Your Honor, why I shot this French Muslim policemen in the head, I'm "explaining" why I did it..."

    Really? Good luck with that defense.

    The Pope has strange bedfellows this week ("If someone insults my religion, it is as if he insulted my mother, and deserves a punch...") Who decides when it's a "punch" and a "bullet in the head", "Holy" Father?? You? Me? Your mother? A Terrorist? You fucking idiot.

    The French have it 100% right. You simply will NOT tell me that I have to respect your so-called "religion", 300 years after Kant made absolute fools out of you, and we decided that secular states permanently replaced your religious idiocy.

    I'm still not interesting in killing you, btw, now matter how "religious" you are. I wish you'd leave me alone, too.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 21, 2015 3:21 PM GMT
    Exactly
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 3:28 PM GMT
    +1

    This is your best post ever! Thank you!!!
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jan 21, 2015 3:46 PM GMT
    Thank you Wrestlerboy.

    You have succeeded in expressing the feelings of many of us.

    I too consider myself to be a child of the Age of Enlightenment. There is nothing about Islam above all religions that does not offend me with it's desert thief barbarity.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM GMT
    considering the average IQ is 100 and 25% the people are dumber that that - who's really surprised?
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jan 21, 2015 5:40 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidconsidering the average IQ is 100 and 25% the people are dumber that that - who's really surprised?

    Ya, a half-intelligent person can reason his way out of religion but I truly believe that those who are inculcated into it at an early age end up with synaptic connections that they really can't overcome. I guess you could call it brainwashing but it's more like hard-wired. Like your first language becomes hardwired or love of home visually.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 5:49 PM GMT
    ^^

    I don't know, I saw 6 million idiot Filipinos (most of whom probably live in a slum in Manila with 6 kids) standing in the pouring rain watching the moron Pope - go figure.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 6:02 PM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    tj85016 saidconsidering the average IQ is 100 and 25% the people are dumber that that - who's really surprised?

    Ya, a half-intelligent person can reason his way out of religion but I truly believe that those who are inculcated into it at an early age end up with synaptic connections that they really can't overcome. I guess you could call it brainwashing but it's more like hard-wired. Like your first language becomes hardwired or love of home visually.

    I broke out of the mental prison that is religion. Now, I look at the people still "brainwashed" and see only victims of oppression. Not only that, but I'm acutely aware that they're gunning for nonbelievers. They have to believe atheists deserve punishment, because the lie of their religion depends on it, and it controls them. It gives them the commandment to refuse and/or punish those who speak the truth.icon_sad.gif
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    I don't know, I went to a Catholic university (Villanova) and spoke to a few priests a few times. They were very bright people and somehow I knew that they knew it was all a con game.

    And this new Pope is a smart guy with his sort of artful way he maneuvers around gay rights and birth control without giving up the ghost (so to speak).

    It seems he knows he's playing a role based on bullshit pretty much.

    I think the priesthood is more of a cushy job more than a calling to most of them.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 6:32 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidI don't know, I went to a Catholic university (Villanova) and spoke to a few priests a few times. They were very bright people and somehow I knew that they knew it was all a con game.

    And this new Pope is a smart guy with his sort of artful way he maneuvers around gay rights and birth control without giving up the ghost (so to speak).

    It seems he knows he's playing a role based on bullshit pretty much.

    I think the priesthood is more of a cushy job more than a calling to most of them.

    Then they're no better than sociopathic con artists. It truly is evil to pretend you hold the keys to another person's mind(soul). Religion is evil.icon_evil.gif
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 6:42 PM GMT
    ^^

    I think they just delude themselves into thinking they're doing some good (maybe temporarily) - I really do. Sorta like joining the army when you're not at war. They give you clothes and food (and a cross or a gun) and you're surrounded by like-minded morons who wouldn't be doing anything else otherwise.

    But I think it's more of a cop out than really evil (even in their minds)
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3386

    Jan 21, 2015 6:48 PM GMT
    Great post, but one minor correction. If you called Jesus a "Palestinian", he'd be confused (showing us that he's not all-knowing). While the term "Palestine" dates back to the 5th century BCE (by Europeans, not locals), never in antiquity is the term "Palestinian" used to describe people. (That's a modern 20th century concept.)
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 6:57 PM GMT
    ^^

    I think the story of Jesus has been so bastardized and edited and re-edited (this Gospel is in, this Gospel is out)

    that nobody really knows that's up (save for the Vatican maybe)
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 21, 2015 6:57 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy saidI am SO confused about all of these posts since the Charlie Hebdo murders.

    I am a Son of the Enlightenment, which developed almost 300 years ago, not 3 months ago, so this is nothing new.

    But I cannot remember the last time someone asked me how "deeply, seriously, and sincerely offended" I am (and I am) that "followers" of a Palestinian "risen from the dead" 2,000 years ago, and, say, a 7th-century mass murdering pedophile continue to insist that I have to "respect" them.

    So, as I said, I am grossly offended by these anti-intellectual clowns; am I going to go out and kill them because I am offended? Are they going to want to kill me because they're offended?

    A report in today's Guardian has the former head of Britain's intelligence service "not justifying, but explaining..." why the terrorists in Paris did what they did. So, post-Enlightenment, let's try that in a court of law: "I'm not justifying, Your Honor, why I shot this French Muslim policemen in the head, I'm "explaining" why I did it..."

    Really? Good luck with that defense.

    The Pope has strange bedfellows this week ("If someone insults my religion, it is as if he insulted my mother, and deserves a punch...") Who decides when it's a "punch" and a "bullet in the head", "Holy" Father?? You? Me? Your mother? A Terrorist? You fucking idiot.

    The French have it 100% right. You simply will NOT tell me that I have to respect your so-called "religion", 300 years after Kant made absolute fools out of you, and we decided that secular states permanently replaced your religious idiocy.

    I'm still not interesting in killing you, btw, now matter how "religious" you are. I wish you'd leave me alone, too.





    Who is insisting you respect anyone?


    Why are "grossly offended by these anti-intellectual clowns".

    If you are so enlightened ,ignore them.


    However I doubt it just disbelief that fuels your passion.

    I suspect its the antagonism of the believers that does.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 7:02 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    I think they just delude themselves into thinking they're doing some good (maybe temporarily) - I really do.

    But I think it's more of a cop out than really evil (even in their minds)

    The lies and coercion are evil. Religion holds people hostage to a book and forces followers to obey it, even if that means people will be killed over it -- and it's not real. It's a mythology based on a totalitarian deity, used to control the masses. It's used by governments and clerics to instill fear in poor people and oppress them.

    And what do you think the fundamentalist Christians are up to? They want to dictate based on a moral code that they think is supernatural.

    The priests may be the most deceived of all.... I'm sure many of them pat themselves on the back and sleep well at night, like self righteous slave owners.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 7:04 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    WrestlerBoy saidI am SO confused about all of these posts since the Charlie Hebdo murders.

    I am a Son of the Enlightenment, which developed almost 300 years ago, not 3 months ago, so this is nothing new.

    But I cannot remember the last time someone asked me how "deeply, seriously, and sincerely offended" I am (and I am) that "followers" of a Palestinian "risen from the dead" 2,000 years ago, and, say, a 7th-century mass murdering pedophile continue to insist that I have to "respect" them.

    So, as I said, I am grossly offended by these anti-intellectual clowns; am I going to go out and kill them because I am offended? Are they going to want to kill me because they're offended?

    A report in today's Guardian has the former head of Britain's intelligence service "not justifying, but explaining..." why the terrorists in Paris did what they did. So, post-Enlightenment, let's try that in a court of law: "I'm not justifying, Your Honor, why I shot this French Muslim policemen in the head, I'm "explaining" why I did it..."

    Really? Good luck with that defense.

    The Pope has strange bedfellows this week ("If someone insults my religion, it is as if he insulted my mother, and deserves a punch...") Who decides when it's a "punch" and a "bullet in the head", "Holy" Father?? You? Me? Your mother? A Terrorist? You fucking idiot.

    The French have it 100% right. You simply will NOT tell me that I have to respect your so-called "religion", 300 years after Kant made absolute fools out of you, and we decided that secular states permanently replaced your religious idiocy.

    I'm still not interesting in killing you, btw, now matter how "religious" you are. I wish you'd leave me alone, too.





    Who is insisting you respect anyone?


    Why are "grossly offended by these anti-intellectual clowns".

    If you are so enlightened ,ignore them.


    However I doubt it just disbelief that fuels your passion.

    I suspect its the antagonism of the believers that does.

    They place their faith in a God that says to kill gays. I'd say that's pretty antagonistic!
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 21, 2015 7:06 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    tj85016 said^^

    I think they just delude themselves into thinking they're doing some good (maybe temporarily) - I really do.

    But I think it's more of a cop out than really evil (even in their minds)

    The lies and coercion are evil. Religion holds people hostage to a book and forces followers to obey it, even if that means people will be killed over it -- and it's not real. It's a mythology based on a totalitarian deity, used to control the masses. It's used by governments and clerics to instill fear in poor people and oppress them.

    And what do you think the fundamentalist Christians are up to? They want to dictate based on a moral code that they think is supernatural.

    The priests may be the most deceived of all.... I'm sure many of them pat themselves on the back and sleep well at night, like self righteous slave owners.


    yep, it reminds me of all this fake "war on terror" bullshit

    we feed you a line a crap to scare you, then you pay us (the government) to protect you

    same shit
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 21, 2015 7:59 PM GMT
    Growing up in the US, I always thought my country was thought of as backwards and religious. Now it just seems like whole world is facing backwards, and expecting free people to submit to lies.

    I was on board with having the first "nice" pope. Now I'm not so sure. The zipper on his mask is showing, and, big surprise, he's two faced.icon_evil.gif
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    Jan 22, 2015 1:41 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said

    ... that "followers" of a Palestinian "risen from the dead" 2,000 years ago ... continue to insist that I have to "respect" them.



    #1 Jesus was not just a Palestinian "risen from the dead." Jesus was part Roman Empire, Flavian Dynasty.

    Roman emperors do insist that you "respect" them.

    During their lifetimes they wanted the goodwill of Israel. In fact, at the Temple of Jerusalem, there were sacrifices made for the well-being of Caesar. We still pay a little bit of homage to Julius Caesar because every day in July is a reference to the month named after him. I wonder if the same is the case for August (Augustus Caesar). Do you not want to call the months by their name since Roman emperors insist that the world remember them on every calendar?

    This video gives a good grounding that you're not dealing with an Ancient Palestinian but some of the most powerful men of the first century Common Era.



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    Jan 22, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidGrowing up in the US, I always thought my country was thought of as backwards and religious. Now it just seems like whole world is facing backwards, and expecting free people to submit to lies.

    I was on board with having the first "nice" pope. Now I'm not so sure. The zipper on his mask is showing, and, big surprise, he's two faced.icon_evil.gif


    WestlerBoy:
    "The Pope has strange bedfellows this week ("If someone insults my religion, it is as if he insulted my mother, and deserves a punch...") Who decides when it's a "punch" and a "bullet in the head", "Holy" Father?? You? Me? Your mother? A Terrorist? You fucking idiot."

    Yes, I too liked him at first but evidently he forgot Jesus' admonition to "turn the other cheek," which is a very basic tenent of His teachings. "Deserves a punch?" Is the Holy Father condoning violence? What I really think is happening is he like most of the world leaders are afraid of these Islamic barbarians and are afraid to offend them with the truth. He's afraid of what they'll do. So sad.

    Jesus told his followers to be not afraid, that the truth would set them free and that they should boldly proclaim His gospel. He also said that those who try to preserve their lives will surely lose their lives.

    I'm truly beginning to believe the Throne of St. Peter has been vacant for a very long time.
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    Jan 22, 2015 6:11 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said... The French have it 100% right. You simply will NOT tell me that I have to respect your so-called "religion", 300 years after Kant made absolute fools out of you, and we decided that secular states permanently replaced your religious idiocy. ..."


    I'm w/ you and notre freres francaises et leurs grand pere Voltaire on this one. The only respect I allow religions is their free practice of it, provided they do not infringe upon the state's laws or an individual's rights. For me, the Catholicism I was raised in provides a reasonable framework and focus for living and honoring our Creator, but in actual practice I'd call myself a Deist who's a "God the Father" kinda guy.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 22, 2015 6:23 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    WrestlerBoy said... The French have it 100% right. You simply will NOT tell me that I have to respect your so-called "religion", 300 years after Kant made absolute fools out of you, and we decided that secular states permanently replaced your religious idiocy. ..."


    I'm w/ you and notre freres francaises et leurs grand pere Voltaire on this one. The only respect I allow religions is their free practice of it, provided they do not infringe upon the state's laws or an individual's rights. For me, the Catholicism I was raised in provides a reasonable framework and focus for living and honoring our Creator, but in actual practice I'd call myself a Deist who's a "God the Father" kinda guy.

    What, no love for the Greek Gods.icon_sad.gif
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    Jan 22, 2015 6:42 PM GMT
    I am under no obligation to respect anyone's beliefs of any kind beyond respecting your right to believe whatever you want as long as you are not harming anyone or trying to foist them upon me or society at large. On your part you must respect my right to make fun of, parody, ridicule, etc., in word or print, your ridiculous beliefs. You are not allowed to punch me (despite the papal permission to do so), bomb me, gun me down, behead me. What you are allowed is to use reasoned arguments to pursuade me into seeing your point of view is reasonable.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 22, 2015 6:52 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidI am under no obligation to respect anyone's beliefs of any kind beyond respecting your right to believe whatever you want as long as you are not harming anyone or trying to foist them upon me or society at large. On your part you must respect my right to make fun of, parody, ridicule, etc., in word or print, your ridiculous beliefs. You are not allowed to punch me (despite the papal permission to do so), bomb me, gun me down, behead me. What you are allowed is to use reasoned arguments to pursuade me into seeing your point of view is reasonable.

    They're also not allowed to kill gays, even though many of them advocate for the violent extermination of us.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2015 7:41 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    UndercoverMan saidI am under no obligation to respect anyone's beliefs of any kind beyond respecting your right to believe whatever you want as long as you are not harming anyone or trying to foist them upon me or society at large. On your part you must respect my right to make fun of, parody, ridicule, etc., in word or print, your ridiculous beliefs. You are not allowed to punch me (despite the papal permission to do so), bomb me, gun me down, behead me. What you are allowed is to use reasoned arguments to pursuade me into seeing your point of view is reasonable.

    They're also not allowed to kill gays, even though many of them advocate for the violent extermination of us.


    Do "they" not realize that to exterminate gays once and for all "they" will have to exterminate themselves because "they" are the ones giving birth to us.