Jesus Losing His Religion over Either AD 70 or Foreseeing AD 70

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    Jan 22, 2015 4:49 AM GMT
    Josephus continued his thoughts on Jesus after the Testimonium passage. He speaks of Jesus as dying for the world but as an impostor. He alleges Paul reallocated political power and funds from Temple Judaism to Gentile Christianity. Jesus closes the age of Temple Judaism in a way not obvious in the New Testament or in The Koran. Many references have been made from the statements of Jesus to scriptures in the Hebrew Bible. When this is done for interpreting Jesus' death as atonement and for the Last Supper, we discover how agonizing it was for first century Jews (Josephus included) to rethink God and Salvation. The question to New Testament critics is: Did Jesus, circa 33 C.E. really instruct remembrance of him via bread and wine metaphor?

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    Jan 28, 2015 4:21 PM GMT
    Responder

    Steefen – first, let me admit that I only watched the first part of your presentation.

    Steefen

    Where did you stop? Maybe I can explain what happens after that point in more detail than what is explained in the introduction (first 2-3 minutes of the video).

    Responder

    I’m one who does not think the “Testimonium” was written by Josephus. Part of my reason – writing style. The “testimonium” entry is quite TERSE; whereas Josephus is a very wordy, and descriptive writer.

    Steefen

    We cannot take away Josephus' freedom to use analogy. Josephus is handcuffed when writing about Jesus, "if you can call him a man."

    Josephus is also handcuffed when writing about Paul, but, in the Jewish Affairs passage, the opening paragraph is none other than Paul.

    Responder

    The story of the woman (Isis worshiper) who was fooled into sleeping with the dude that lusted after her was very lengthy, and used names of other characters. I just cannot think Josephus was using the Isis story as any sort of analogy for Jesus.

    Steefen

    Interesting the way you put it. So, if the analogy holds, Decius Mundus (One Who Sacrificed His Life for the World, therefore a Jesus analogy) lusted for the woman of dignity and of great ancestry Paulina. Paulina can be a metaphor for Judaism. Jesus wanted Judaism in a bad way, like a mother hen, he wanted to gather the Jews to him. He was such a purist, he believed he earned the right to embody the Son of Man prophecies and on another plank of his platform, he was also the Son of God who explained to Judaism the God notion of God being a loving Father. Jesus wanted Judaism in a bad way and even claimed the god of Judaism in the way an emperor or a pharaoh identified himself as being the son of a deity. Was it Julius Caesar who was the son of Venus? Amen-ophis IV was the son of Amen/Amun.

    I know there is such a tradition of not knowing Decius Mundus functionally means "One Who Sacrificed His Life for the World." Now, the scholarship has to inform the scholarly community, students, and the general public.

    Ah, I know you must have stopped watching the video before Josephus' use of the name Decius Mus was explained.

    Responder

    I’ve not read (thoroughly) War of the Jews, limiting myself to the Antiquities; but, I’ve never seen what I think was any reference to Apostle Paul in Antiquities.

    Steefen

    Yes, that does come later in the video. Here it is:

    “There was a man who was a Jew but had been driven away from his own country by an accusation laid against him for transgressing their laws.” To those familiar with the life of Paul, this is a reference to Acts 15: 1-2, 5. Judaism required circumcision. A contemporary of the biblical Jesus and the biblical Paul, the proselyte King Izates converted to Judaism and was circumcised. (Antiquities, Book 20, Chapter 2, Section 4.) However, Paul taught circumcision was not necessary. Paul taught this in Antioch and it appears in the authentic Letter of Paul to the Galatians 5: 2. An accusation was laid against Paul for transgressing Jewish law by none other than James, leader of Jesus’ disciples (Acts 21: 21).

    Build Slide

    “He was fearful of punishment.” At Acts 21: 27-32, an accusing crowd was trying to kill Paul. To get away from this situation, Paul appealed to Caesar and was sent to Rome (Acts 25: 7-12).


    Build Slide

    “Living at Rome, he instructed men in the wisdom of the laws of Moses.” This part of the passage is also mirrored by Paul at Acts 28: 16-17 and 23. Paul arrived at Rome. He called together the leaders of the Jews. They arranged a day with him. From early morning until evening, he expounded his position to them. He tried to convince them about Jesus from the prophets and, as Josephus described, from the laws of Moses.

    Build Slide

    The Jewish Affairs passage has sufficiently established the identity of Paul directly in its opening paragraph.

    Responder

    One amazing thing I ran onto when reading Antiquities is the discovery that at the time of the writing of the gospel of John, “only begotten son” did not mean the child referred to was the ONLY son – but, indicated a favored son. I’m speaking of:

    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18

    Steefen

    If you have the source on that, I can use it for the second edition of my book. Josephus speaks of Izates as being the only begotten son of a royal sibling incest pair, King Monobazus and Queen Helena. We know Izates was a younger sibling. He had a brother named Monobaz. People wonder why Josephus would explain Izates as being only begotten when there was an older brother.

    Responder

    Incidentally in the Codex Vaticanus, that verse reads “only begotten God”.

    Steefen

    At John 3: 16? For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten God?

    INTERESTING.

    I hope the doctor, Professor Ehrman addresses that. He must have that in one of his New Testament textbooks, wouldn't you think?