Is it wrong to lie on an application?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 24, 2015 10:06 PM GMT
    Is it wrong to lie on an application in order to get ahead or obtain a job/career? I personally don't think so that much but others seem to. What do you guys think?
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    Jan 24, 2015 10:09 PM GMT
    bad
    your resume is public and if you distribute conflicting copies of your resume you will get found out
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    Jan 24, 2015 10:52 PM GMT
    Being practical, I would guess it depends on what you are applying for, with whom, and what you are faking or exaggerating. Generally, the higher the salary or more important the position, the more likely it is that they will check and you will be found out. It's generally dangerous to lie on an application for government employment, because if they later successfully check up on you, you get fired, and can't reapply for other government jobs.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jan 24, 2015 10:54 PM GMT
    Do NOT lie for a government job.

    Private sector? I personally wouldn't lie (maybe exaggerate a bit). But generally, lie with impunity to the extent you believe you will not get caught. But rest assured, if you say you know advanced calculus, you might be called on to perform that function 3 months into the job. If you can't, BUSTED:

    tumblr_mm8x5sq9yQ1rmlovto1_500.gif
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Jan 24, 2015 11:01 PM GMT
    Is it wrong to lie in order to get ahead?

    Yes.

    Why didn't your mother teach you this?
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    Jan 24, 2015 11:23 PM GMT
    You shouldn't lie because then you have to worry about it catching up to you during the interview or after you're hired. Lying about income, reason for termination, education or experience look really bad and can be easily caught in this day of Linkedin. Job Title lying is a little less of an issue because so many companies have different terms for the same role. Associate/Analyst/Representative, or Lead/Supervisor for example. But don't lie about your duties. It's just best to tell the truth so that if you're selected, you know you can actually meet the qualifications for the role.
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    Jan 24, 2015 11:53 PM GMT
    Integrity can be such an inconvenience.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 25, 2015 12:03 AM GMT
    It's wrong to lie. Period. You haven't worked that out yet?
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Jan 25, 2015 12:27 AM GMT
    tazzari saidIt's wrong to lie. Period. You haven't worked that out yet?


    Tazzari, I'm painfully honest and practice a policy of not lying. I also have common sense and completely see what you're saying.

    However, it's not always as simple as black and white:

    SOCIAL LIES. What about social "white lies"? Does this dress make me look fat? (It does, do you say 'yes', 'no', obfuscate and fail to answer the question 'you're dwelling about that dress and I'm head over heel for this wine, have you tried it?' or reply 'no comment'?).

    AUTHORITY vs. LACK OF AUTHORITY. What about the deeply complex Catholic doctrine of 'authority', developed after martyr experiences and relatable to most from WWII lessons. "Do you have a Jew in your attic?" (Do you admit the truth and say 'yes', or lie and say 'no'? Try to obfuscate? Or do you say 'no' but justify your response as NOT a lie because the questioner, a Nazi in this case, has no legitimate authority over you to ask that question, and therefore any response is dicta/moot/superfluous).

    EXAGGERATION. Is exaggeration a lie? If I say I "Develop litigation strategy to defeat third affirmative defense" is that a lie, when, in fact all I did was some basic Westlaw research? If I sell shoes at FootLocker can I say I "Increased corporate profit by maximizing customer expectations and deploying strategic sales tactics," or is that exaggeration a lie?

    OMISSION. What if I'm asked a question, but omit intentionally a part of the truth I know the questioner wants? For example, if I get home late and my father asks, "Did the date go well?" can I respond "Yes" if AFTER the date concluded, one my way home, I got a speeding ticket and it was so excessive I have a pending court date? Omitting the ticket on the way home is TECHNICALLY legitimate, but under common human experience that is a lie.

    Lines get blurred. Black and white turns gray.
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Jan 25, 2015 12:33 AM GMT
    At best, a lie can come back to haunt you and that's reason enough not to. If you have to misrepresent yourself, maybe you aren't ready to fill out the application.

    But maybe you are, and need to find a better way to sell yourself than to be dishonest about it.
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    Jan 25, 2015 12:39 AM GMT
    tazzari saidIt's wrong to lie. Period. You haven't worked that out yet?



    I can only say that a friend recently put down false info ( lied ) and after two months work he wAs fired for lieing.

    It's wrong to lie for jobs exspecially
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Jan 25, 2015 12:44 AM GMT
    With owning a plant farm/nursery for over 35 years and now trying to adjust into semi retirement I can tell you lying on a job application about skills, knowledge and past experience will always do you more harm than good in finding employment.

    One of the things I still do is interview applicants for all positions in sales and management but not because I don't trust the people who run the business from day to day. I do it because I have the time to delve into the applications and resumes without taking time from running the business. Usually when I meet an applicant I have a list of questions about discrepancies and exaggerations I've found in their resumes or applications. Then I find ways of approaching those items without being confrontational, leaving them the option of either being forthcoming about them and admitting they stretched the truth or digging themselves into less of a chance for employment by telling more lies. Everyone gets a background check as well as a full check on work history and references.

    We also take on a few pretty well paid university interns each year. I understand they are inclined to do the best they can to make a good impression and are inclined to expand on the truth to do it. With them coming from a limited number of universities it's really amusing that so many of them contain the same word for word untruths and exaggerations and not expect me to catch them. They actually copy from the resumes of previous graduates.

    With all this in mind you can see how being less than honest when applying for positions makes my job less than streamlined. Because of that I've developed unconventional approaches to cutting through the bull. They come to my home for the interviews where they can casually show me what they know about horticulture as we wander through the yard, home and greenhouse.

    If you do expand on the truth in order to get your foot in the door with an employer have a commitment to come clean about it at the first opportunity in the interview. There's not an employer anywhere who won't be impressed with the honesty and won't be compassionate about your efforts to land a job.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Jan 25, 2015 12:52 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said<

    ...it's not always as simple as black and white:

    (a bunch of other stuff)

    Lines get blurred. Black and white turns gray.


    I disagree. It is ALWAYS wrong to lie.

    It would be even more wrong to tell the Nazis about the Jew in your attic, or to tell some pathetic fat woman she looks like a cow. And if your dad's going to beat the crap out of you for getting a speeding ticket, it's simple self-preservation to keep your mouth shut.

    Padding your resume with nonsensical words in order to make a menial job sound important is silly and transparent. It will fool no one.

    Bottom line, if the greater good is served, lying may be an acceptable choice. Lying for your own benefit - as opposed to your own protection - not so much.

    But it's still "wrong".
  • NeuralShock

    Posts: 411

    Jan 25, 2015 1:18 AM GMT
    If it is something like an engineering job then lying will put you at IMMENSE risk.

    "I know how to code in c" is something a lot of people lie about, when it is found out they cannot even do a simple printf statement they are almost immediately in shit.

    If it is something you can brush up on/learn quickly and adapt then put it on.... otherwise you're putting yourself AND THEM at risk. Something like (returning to c example) putting you can do c++ despite only having worked with c is an okay thing... because c++ is ridiculously similar to c. Or you can teach yourself UML diagrams pretty easily, databases are another easy thing to pick up (SQL, etc)...

    Basically it is okay to BS if you can pick things up, otherwise NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO

    Listing skills you do not have is a risk, many employers will hire you BECAUSE of one of those skills you listed. Don't get kicked in the ass for lying.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 25, 2015 1:43 AM GMT
    bro4bro said[...]

    Why didn't your mother teach you this?


    She did but he cheated and asked his sibling for the answers.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jan 25, 2015 2:37 AM GMT
    No point in lying. It is pretty easy now to verify what is on your resume. That is why they hire human resources personnel. It's not 'if' but 'when' you get found out, you will most likely loose your job and you may also destroy opportunities for future jobs.
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    Jan 25, 2015 8:46 AM GMT
    What sort of lying? Obviously you can't lie about previous jobs. Your potential future employer will find out with a simple background check. Lie about what you did at your previous jobs? Yeah, that happens a lot. I interview applicants for our department. I see very impressive resumes. But when I interview them in person, it becomes obvious that they either lied or fluffed up their experience/roles. Buh-bye.
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    Jan 25, 2015 8:52 AM GMT
    Just came across this article and had to share it here.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-one-man-lied-170000010.html

    Probably the only acceptable way to lie on your resume.
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Jan 25, 2015 3:54 PM GMT
    Here's another article for the employer point of view:

    http://www.paychex.com/articles/human-resources/five-interviewing-red-flags

    "Some job seekers have the ability to present themselves as comfortable, articulate, and even charming. But sometimes these qualities are superficial, with no substance behind them. This is something you can discern by asking follow-up and probing questions about their professional background, with special attention given to any claims they make on their resumes."

    Of course you could do what I did at the start of the recession and start your own business and never have to write another resume, sweat another interview, or play office politics again.
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    Jan 25, 2015 5:24 PM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat sort of lying? Obviously you can't lie about previous jobs. Your potential future employer will find out with a simple background check. Lie about what you did at your previous jobs? Yeah, that happens a lot. I interview applicants for our department. I see very impressive resumes. But when I interview them in person, it becomes obvious that they either lied or fluffed up their experience/roles. Buh-bye.

    exactly
    Seams everyone lye's--so it must be OK.
    As a manager, I would quickly browse a cover sheet, than go straight to calling their reverences/previous employers.
    --loved the ones that would start laughing when you asked about the person.
    It is why so many won't hire unless you have experience.

    Then again; it makes it impossible for us that actually have all the experience to be believed.
  • NeuralShock

    Posts: 411

    Jan 25, 2015 5:58 PM GMT
    polfsky saidJust came across this article and had to share it here.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-one-man-lied-170000010.html

    Probably the only acceptable way to lie on your resume.

    Yes yes yes yes. This I agree with and is a better way of what I was saying.

    Figure out what you can do and make it a reality and then it is okay to put on your resume, but if it is beyond your grasp to perform the function within a short time span then ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO IT.
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    Jan 25, 2015 7:11 PM GMT
    Lots of interviewers do not question deeply enough to find out whether people can do the things they said they can do, so it is probably possible to lie to get a job, then apply for another job doing the same thing based on your experience from the first job (i.e. not having to lie to the second job). Things like foreign languages and computer skills are bad things to lie about, but people have gotten away with big lies like not having the degree they said they did for years at a time before.

    Personally I would never lie to get a job and I hate that other people get away with it.
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    Jan 26, 2015 12:14 AM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat sort of lying? Obviously you can't lie about previous jobs. Your potential future employer will find out with a simple background check. Lie about what you did at your previous jobs? Yeah, that happens a lot. I interview applicants for our department. I see very impressive resumes. But when I interview them in person, it becomes obvious that they either lied or fluffed up their experience/roles. Buh-bye.

    But asking things they did 2-3 years ago isn't that logical either. I do remember vaguely what I did on my first job, but if you go in exact details of what I did there, I wouldn't be able to answer. I can just give an overview of what tools I used or what logic/algorithm I used to solve the problem. But I am definitely not going to remember exact numbers.
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    Jan 26, 2015 9:46 PM GMT
    In the business world, people lie cheat to get ahead all the time. icon_eek.gif
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    Jan 26, 2015 10:35 PM GMT
    Ohno saidLots of interviewers do not question deeply enough to find out whether people can do the things they said they can do, so it is probably possible to lie to get a job, then apply for another job doing the same thing based on your experience from the first job (i.e. not having to lie to the second job). Things like foreign languages and computer skills are bad things to lie about, but people have gotten away with big lies like not having the degree they said they did for years at a time before.

    Personally I would never lie to get a job and I hate that other people get away with it.


    So what if you signed up for the US Military before Gays were allowed....is this type of lying somehow ok?