First Ever Law To Protect Gay 'Cure' Proposed In Oklahoma

  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    Jan 31, 2015 6:43 AM GMT
    First Ever Law To Protect Gay 'Cure' Proposed In Oklahoma



    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/30/gay-cure-law_n_6573710.html
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    Jan 31, 2015 3:47 PM GMT
    I think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.
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    Jan 31, 2015 4:02 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.

    Quack medicine is still quack medicine, no matter what your age is. That's why any number of so-called "medical" practices are prohibited by law, not limited to just gay reparative therapy.

    In addition to which, these "cures" assume 3 dangerous, outdated and erroneous concepts: that homosexuality is a mental disorder; that's it's a choice; and that it can be reversed and "cured".

    This is not medicine Oklahoma proposes - it's Right Wing politics at its worst.

    You are correct that an adult can do as he or she wishes with their own lives. It is NOT correct to have the organized practice of such harmful medical quackery legally protected by a US State.

    Interesting that Oklahoma has also done everything it can to deny a woman her reproductive rights. What do you think of THAT kind of "censorship"?
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Jan 31, 2015 4:04 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.
    The only thing is that these cures are disastrous failures which cause more serious psychological problems in the long run because the person is being pressured and brain washed into hating himself for what he naturally is that is why these cures need to be shut down. They do far more harm and create more serious problems for society than any possible good. The unhappiness and depression troubling these adults questioning themselves is an end result of ignorance and intolerance. The state of Oklahoma should just kill dead this horrendous bill and get on with more important issues facing it like infrastructure, schools, rural poverty, etc.
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    Jan 31, 2015 4:25 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.

    Quack medicine is still quack medicine, no matter what your age is. That's why any number of so-called "medical" practices are prohibited by law, not limited to just gay reparative therapy.

    In addition to which, these "cures" assume 3 dangerous, outdated and erroneous concepts: that homosexuality is a mental disorder; that's it's a choice; and that it can be reversed and "cured".

    This is not medicine Oklahoma proposes - it's Right Wing politics at its worst.

    You are correct that an adult can do as he or she wishes with their own lives. It is NOT correct to have the organized practice of such harmful medical quackery legally protected by a US State.

    Interesting that Oklahoma has also done everything it can to deny a woman her reproductive rights. What do you think of THAT kind of "censorship"?


    All due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options, not gay politics or the obviously unwanted responsibility of making things better for a whole community which the individual doesn't even feel they belong in anyway. There are lots of things that have been proven dangerous that adults are allowed access to by their own choosing.

    I think Oklahoma is wrong for trying to restrict women's reproductive rights. I'm all for choice, which includes CT.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Jan 31, 2015 4:38 PM GMT
    CODY4U said
    Art_Deco said
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.

    Quack medicine is still quack medicine, no matter what your age is. That's why any number of so-called "medical" practices are prohibited by law, not limited to just gay reparative therapy.

    In addition to which, these "cures" assume 3 dangerous, outdated and erroneous concepts: that homosexuality is a mental disorder; that's it's a choice; and that it can be reversed and "cured".

    This is not medicine Oklahoma proposes - it's Right Wing politics at its worst.

    You are correct that an adult can do as he or she wishes with their own lives. It is NOT correct to have the organized practice of such harmful medical quackery legally protected by a US State.

    Interesting that Oklahoma has also done everything it can to deny a woman her reproductive rights. What do you think of THAT kind of "censorship"?


    All due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options, not gay politics or the obviously unwanted responsibility of making things better for a whole community which the individual doesn't even feel they belong in anyway. There are lots of things that have been proven dangerous that adults are allowed access to by their own choosing.

    I think Oklahoma is wrong for trying to restrict women's reproductive rights. I'm all for choice, which includes CT.
    Oklahoma is wrong for trying to protect this dangerous quackery known as ex-gay therapy. It has been proven repeatedly that these therapies have no credibility and do not work. Sexual orientation is just like race and your physical features, you cannot change them because they are a God given.
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    Jan 31, 2015 4:44 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.
    The only thing is that these cures are disastrous failures which cause more serious psychological problems in the long run because the person is being pressured and brain washed into hating himself for what he naturally is that is why these cures need to be shut down. They do far more harm and create more serious problems for society than any possible good. The unhappiness and depression troubling these adults questioning themselves is an end result of ignorance and intolerance. The state of Oklahoma should just kill dead this horrendous bill and get on with more important issues facing it like infrastructure, schools, rural poverty, etc.


    You make it seem like these are people who were otherwise okay until conversion therapy. No. People who would seek this out are obviously unhappy with themselves anyway. Again, lots of things we allow in this country cause serious psychological problems in the long run. You're focusing on people who were obviously unhappy with their conversion experiences; how about the other side? Do a Google search, there IS another side. They might become even more unhappy and depressed without options. Or they may seek out even more "dangerous" alternatives. Remember the days of back alley abortions?
  • Antarktis

    Posts: 213

    Jan 31, 2015 4:47 PM GMT
    Snake Oil anyone? Cures everything from dander to homosexuality.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Jan 31, 2015 4:55 PM GMT
    CODY4U said
    roadbikeRob said
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.
    The only thing is that these cures are disastrous failures which cause more serious psychological problems in the long run because the person is being pressured and brain washed into hating himself for what he naturally is that is why these cures need to be shut down. They do far more harm and create more serious problems for society than any possible good. The unhappiness and depression troubling these adults questioning themselves is an end result of ignorance and intolerance. The state of Oklahoma should just kill dead this horrendous bill and get on with more important issues facing it like infrastructure, schools, rural poverty, etc.


    You make it seem like these are people who were otherwise okay until conversion therapy. No. People who would seek this out are obviously unhappy with themselves anyway. Again, lots of things we allow in this country cause serious psychological problems in the long run. You're focusing on people who were obviously unhappy with their conversion experiences; how about the other side? Do a Google search, there IS another side. They might become even more unhappy and depressed without options. Or they may seek out even more "dangerous" alternatives. Remember the days of back alley abortions?
    They would be okay if there wasn't all the prejudice and hatred towards gays as well as other minority groups in the world. This is most likely the cause of their depression and unhappiness in life because of the possible discrimination they could face if they are found out. The "another side" that you are referring to are people who were really sexually confused and unsure of themselves and not gay. Some of these people are convinced to say nothing but positive things about ex-gay conversion when in reality, the total opposite is the actual truth. Look at all the ex-gays who were supposedly successful at first and than naturally reverted back to their homosexuality and ended up making up nonsense like I didn't pray hard enough. Oklahoma is wrong if they pass this law.
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    Jan 31, 2015 5:08 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidYou make it seem like these are people who were otherwise okay until conversion therapy. No. People who would seek this out are obviously unhappy with themselves anyway. Again, lots of things we allow in this country cause serious psychological problems in the long run. You're focusing on people who were obviously unhappy with their conversion experiences; how about the other side? Do a Google search, there IS another side. They might become even more unhappy and depressed without options. Or they may seek out even more "dangerous" alternatives. Remember the days of back alley abortions?


    In order to properly cure something, you must know the cause. We don't know what causes someone's sexuality to form the way it does, so any proposed cure should be deemed questionable.
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    Jan 31, 2015 5:08 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Oklahoma is wrong for trying to protect this dangerous quackery known as ex-gay therapy. It has been proven repeatedly that these therapies have no credibility and do not work. Sexual orientation is just like race and your physical features, you cannot change them because they are a God given.

    That first part is your OPINION. Also, sexuality is way more fluid and can be concealed in a way that's not as possible with physicality (trust me on this one). However, these days people CAN make "alterations" to their ethnicity with things like bleaching creams and cosmetic procedures. Same controversy and all the same arguments being used:

    "It's physically dangerous."
    So is tobacco.

    "People need to learn to love and accept themselves"
    Nice sentiment, but then people go out into the world and are bombarded with messages that their existence is "wrong".

    If it makes the INDIVIDUAL happier in the end, what's your damage?
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Jan 31, 2015 5:21 PM GMT
    CODY4U said
    roadbikeRob said
    Oklahoma is wrong for trying to protect this dangerous quackery known as ex-gay therapy. It has been proven repeatedly that these therapies have no credibility and do not work. Sexual orientation is just like race and your physical features, you cannot change them because they are a God given.


    That first part is your OPINION. Also, sexuality is way more fluid and can be concealed in a way that's not as possible with physicality (trust me on this one). However, these days people CAN make "alterations" to their ethnicity with things like bleaching creams and cosmetic procedures. Same controversy and all the same arguments being used:

    "It's physically dangerous."
    So is tobacco.

    "People need to learn to love and accept themselves"
    Nice sentiment, but then people go out into the world and are bombarded with messages that their existence is "wrong".

    If it makes the INDIVIDUAL happier in the end, what's your damage? The serious psychological problems that have been proven repeatedly. The individual thinks that he is making himself happier going through these discredited therapies but in the long run they will most likely not be happy with their lives or they will force themselves to be happy to the applause of these incompetent therapists of dangerous ex-gay therapy. Granted sexuality is fluid but you still cannot change your orientation because that is a God given like it or lump it.
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    Jan 31, 2015 6:03 PM GMT
    go_dreaming saidIn order to properly cure something, you must know the cause. We don't know what causes someone's sexuality to form the way it does, so any proposed cure should be deemed questionable.


    It may not "cure" the person, but it may help them better deal with their feelings in a way that will allow them to live the life they see for themselves (likely heterosexual). So in that sense, it's more of a "treatment" than a "cure". The effectiveness of hypnosis is "questionable" too, but at least it's accesible to adults who want to try it.

    roadbikeRob saidThe serious psychological problems that have been proven repeatedly. The individual thinks that he is making himself happier going through these discredited therapies but in the long run they will most likely not be happy with their lives or they will force themselves to be happy to the applause of these incompetent therapists of dangerous ex-gay therapy. Granted sexuality is fluid but you still cannot change your orientation because that is a God given like it or lump it.


    Everything you're saying basically comes down to, "This offends me, so they shouldn't be able to do this." Hmmmm where have we heard that logic before?? There are A LOT of incompetent therapists practicing and treating people right now. You keep claiming this therapy hasn't been proven effective for anyone (ever), yet you're arguing sexual orientation "is God given"...which also hasn't been proven. As adults, we take on the responsibility of the risks when we make a choice to do anything. This idea of childproofing the whole country for adults is kinda silly.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 31, 2015 6:12 PM GMT
    CODY4U said
    go_dreaming saidIn order to properly cure something, you must know the cause. We don't know what causes someone's sexuality to form the way it does, so any proposed cure should be deemed questionable.


    It may not "cure" the person, but it may help them better deal with their feelings in a way that will allow them to live the life they see for themselves (likely heterosexual). So in that sense, it's more of a "treatment" than a "cure". The effectiveness of hypnosis is "questionable" too, but at least it's accesible to adults who want to try it.

    roadbikeRob saidThe serious psychological problems that have been proven repeatedly. The individual thinks that he is making himself happier going through these discredited therapies but in the long run they will most likely not be happy with their lives or they will force themselves to be happy to the applause of these incompetent therapists of dangerous ex-gay therapy. Granted sexuality is fluid but you still cannot change your orientation because that is a God given like it or lump it.


    Everything you're saying basically comes down to, "This offends me, so they shouldn't be able to do this." Hmmmm where have we heard that logic before?? There are A LOT of incompetent therapists practicing and treating people right now. You keep claiming this therapy hasn't been proven effective for anyone (ever), yet you're arguing sexual orientation "is God given"...which also hasn't been proven. As adults, we take on the responsibility of the risks when we make a choice to do anything. This idea of childproofing the whole country for adults is kinda silly.
    Your defending this horrible practice is ridiculous. Yes adults over 18 should be able to decide for themselves but there are certain odd times when a higher authority needs to step in and make the decisions if that said adult is going to pursue something that could be potentially harmful like these discredited ex gay therapies. Because in the end, it is society in general that has to help pick up the pieces for this adult's horrendous errors so there has to be some protection here. Any type of radical changes to ones sex, sexual orientation, or physical characteristics is tampering with nature as far as I am concerned. You work with what you have and you accept yourself and to hell with what all these racists, homophobes, and xenophobes have to say.
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    Jan 31, 2015 6:55 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Your defending this horrible practice is ridiculous. Yes adults over 18 should be able to decide for themselves but there are certain odd times when a higher authority needs to step in and make the decisions if that said adult is going to pursue something that could be potentially harmful like these discredited ex gay therapies. Because in the end, it is society in general that has to help pick up the pieces for this adult's horrendous errors so there has to be some protection here. Any type of radical changes to ones sex, sexual orientation, or physical characteristics is tampering with nature as far as I am concerned. You work with what you have and you accept yourself and to hell with what all these racists, homophobes, and xenophobes have to say.

    I'm not defending the actual therapy. I'm defending the right to access information. Defending censorship, trying to silence people, and presenting information with bias is what's horrible and ridiculous. Some information or help you wish to access just might be up for debate next! You don't like conversion therapy, don't try it. If the next guy is interested, he should be able to explore it.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jan 31, 2015 7:00 PM GMT
    Would our society find it acceptable if someone wanted to seek a doctor to amputate their arms and legs just because they had some sort of mental instability that could not allow them to accept those parts about themselves? No. We (as a society) would recommend some sort of treatment to try to help them accept themselves. I think if they are going to allow such a proposition there would have to be a requirement that they first undergo treatment to understand why they do not accept themselves as they were born and make every effort help them to love themselves as they are first. Even someone requesting sex re-assignment must undergo extensive psychological evaluation before it can be considered as a valid option.
  • Inque

    Posts: 517

    Jan 31, 2015 7:09 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidI think bi/gay/questioning adults absolutely should have the right to seek out this "cure/treatment" if they feel it's their path to a happier life. Trying to stop it just seems like a form of censorship. Trying to completely shut it down will just make the practice even more secretive (theyre still gonna try). Children and teens, no. Adults, yes.


    Um no. Just because they're adults doesn't mean they should have access to 'medicine' that does not work. There is a reason why certain medical practices have been outlawed.

    What I find ironic is the GOP wants to ban abortions yet protect the right to submit yourself to actual junk science.
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    Jan 31, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidAll due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options...


    It's the opinion of the American Psychological Association that gay conversion therapy is pseudoscience. As in, not science. As in, not helpful to gays. As in, harmful.

    Why defend it? Something wrong with being gay? What you need therapy for is your self hate. Learn to love yourself just a little more.
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    Jan 31, 2015 7:13 PM GMT
    http://www.livescience.com/25082-gay-conversion-therapy-facts.html
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 31, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    CODY4U saidAll due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options...


    It's the opinion of the American Psychological Association that gay conversion therapy is pseudoscience. As in, not science. As in, not helpful to gays. As in, harmful.

    Why defend it? Something wrong with being gay? What you need therapy for is your self hate. Learn to love yourself just a little more.
    Thank you, +200,000. For the first time ever, I fully agree with you on this one.
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    Jan 31, 2015 7:29 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    mickeytopogigio said
    CODY4U said
    All due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options...

    It's the opinion of the American Psychological Association that gay conversion therapy is pseudoscience. As in, not science. As in, not helpful to gays. As in, harmful.

    Why defend it? Something wrong with being gay? What you need therapy for is your self hate. Learn to love yourself just a little more.

    Thank you, +200,000. For the first time ever, I fully agree with you on this one.

    Yeah, agreed. I often cross swords with roadbikeRob on some things, agree with him on others. On this I agree with him completely. Being gay is a normal & natural state - it isn't a malady that requires therapy.

    And a law that prevents the blocking of such pseudoscience voodoo medicine is just another example of Republican hatred of gays. Meaning that if you support US Republicans, you hate gays. Because that is the essence of their official Party platform, and much of their legislation.

    Now if you want to dispute that, then please do. Because I'll quote a mountain of anti-gay Republican pronouncements. The US Republican Party is the official party of gay hate. If you are a Republican supporter you are a gay hater.
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    Jan 31, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    CODY4U saidAll due respect, it's your opinion that there can be no benefits to conversion therapy. This is about the individual's life and right to able to explore options...


    It's the opinion of the American Psychological Association that gay conversion therapy is pseudoscience. As in, not science. As in, not helpful to gays. As in, harmful.

    Why defend it? Something wrong with being gay? What you need therapy for is your self hate. Learn to love yourself just a little more.


    I never said any of these things. Conversion therapy is alternative therapy. Homeopathy is considered pseudoscience too, yet a lot of people swear by it where conventional medicine has failed them.

    The link you provided drips with pro-ban bias. I read the terms "harm" and "harmful" a bunch of times with no real explanation (aside from describing drugs, vomit, porn and electroshock therapies...from the 70's) lol Most of what they do today is talk therapy and social interaction exercises. Drug free. No electrodes. No dungeons. Maybe what you need is therapy for these melodramatic reactions?

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    Jan 31, 2015 8:09 PM GMT
    From what I understand this is mostly a tool for parents to "fix" their kids. When I was questioning and terrified of the acceptance of being gay I would have never gone to a therapy place as ones suggested in this thread as that gives validity to the acceptance of my being gay. And at the time it was the last thing I wanted to admit to myself.
    For those who accept they are gay and hate themselves and situation to warrent being "fixed" I cannot comment as I cannot relate to that mindset as I am very happy being out and a openly gay man.
    I do believe we are born with our sexual preferences encoded into our phyche or whateverever the mechanism is and I can't imagine there is a "cure" for being who you truly are. As there is not a cure for me being tall, fair skinned that burns easily.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 31, 2015 8:14 PM GMT
    Being gay is normal and NATURAL. It is not a disease curable or incurable. I wish that CODY4U could open his mind and understand this true fact.
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    Jan 31, 2015 8:21 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBeing gay is normal and NATURAL. It is not a disease curable or incurable. I wish that CODY4U could open his mind and understand this true fact.


    Again, something I never said. I wish you guys would just own up to the fact that you want access banned solely because this therapy offends you instead of acting like you're sooooooo concerned about the mental well-being of guys you'd probably personally attack with every "self-loathing/coward" insult you can think up to shame them for not living how you think they should. It's SO transparent.