The fall of Europe: Why the European Union is teetering on the brink

  • metta

    Posts: 39167

    Jan 31, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
    The fall of Europe: Why the European Union is teetering on the brink


    http://www.salon.com/2015/01/30/the_fall_of_europe_why_the_european_union_is_teetering_on_the_brink_partner/
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Jan 31, 2015 4:33 PM GMT

    The same reason why the US has had serious problems. The availability of dirt cheap foreign labor in third world countries has decimated most of Europe's industrial base in as much the same way as in the US. Both Americans and Europeans have based their future economic fortunes on free trade and a service sector based economy and we now see the disastrous results. This is why the structural deficits in the US and in major European countries are crushing and causing still more problems.
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    Jan 31, 2015 5:58 PM GMT
    Whenever I read melodramatic headlines like "The Fall of Europe" and the "The Decline and Fall of America" (see 2011) I generally lose interest. Scaremongering is the world's second oldest profession (and a lot less respectable than the first).
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 01, 2015 12:45 AM GMT
    If Greece, Italy and Spain had any brains, they would leave the bullshit Euro - it's only benefited the Germans (and the French to some small extent)

    The Euro was always a ridiculous idea and now they're finding out how bad an idea it was.
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    Feb 01, 2015 1:00 AM GMT
    The purpose of the euro is to provide a common currency throughout Europe. That's all it was intended for. Now, things have changed and they don't know what to do. United like the USA.....they are NOT! lol They loose.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 01, 2015 1:22 AM GMT
    2bnaked saidThe purpose of the euro is to provide a common currency throughout Europe. That's all it was intended for. Now, things have changed and they don't know what to do. United like the USA.....they are NOT! lol They loose.


    The purpose of the Euro was to concentrate power in Brussels and fuck over the average European and their rights - and it worked like a charm.

    Lots of people saw it coming. The Euro is a joke. But now even Germany has negative interest rates, so it's falling in their lap too now.
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    Feb 01, 2015 10:07 AM GMT
    Is there a Fox News parrot in the room?
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 01, 2015 11:57 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidIs there a Fox News parrot in the room?


    Nope, just look at what's going on in Greece and Spain right now.

    Now the French support renegotiating the Greek debt against Germany's wishes.

    The Euro has been a tragedy for most of Europe (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece). Just look at the unemployment numbers. The Euro is a failed experiment.

    Who really cares what FOX and the BBC say.
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    Feb 02, 2015 1:46 PM GMT
    You can't realistically have a shared currency paired with individual sovereignty. It doesn't work. TJ above is correct: the Euro was a bad idea---not inherently, but because the EU wasn't willing or politically able to fully coordinate themselves into a true United States of Europe. The competing political forces coupled with the straitjacket of a non-devaluable currency were a recipe for exactly this disaster.
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    Feb 02, 2015 6:18 PM GMT
    And yet, despite repeated predictions of its imminent demise, the euro has proved doggedly resilient and the eurozone continues to expand.

    Is the EU perfect? Far from it, but at last we are enjoying the first 50 years of peace this continent has seen in over 2000 years of almost permanent war. The EU is an ongoing "under development" project full of flaws but with some nice underlying ideas.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2939

    Feb 02, 2015 6:33 PM GMT
    No, no! It's really due to acceptance of same-sex marriage in so many European countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 6:41 PM GMT
    tazzari saidNo, no! It's really due to acceptance of same-sex marriage in so many European countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Damn that meddling Jesus.icon_mad.gif
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    Feb 02, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare saidYou can't realistically have a shared currency paired with individual sovereignty. It doesn't work. TJ above is correct: the Euro was a bad idea---not inherently, but because the EU wasn't willing or politically able to fully coordinate themselves into a true United States of Europe. The competing political forces coupled with the straitjacket of a non-devaluable currency were a recipe for exactly this disaster.

    An excellent summary. And I note the Brits never bought into the Euro. Despite their own economic challenges, they may be ultimately proven to have been the smartest of the lot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare saidYou can't realistically have a shared currency paired with individual sovereignty. It doesn't work. TJ above is correct: the Euro was a bad idea---not inherently, but because the EU wasn't willing or politically able to fully coordinate themselves into a true United States of Europe. The competing political forces coupled with the straitjacket of a non-devaluable currency were a recipe for exactly this disaster.

    An excellent summary. And I note the Brits never bought into the Euro. Despite their own economic challenges & missteps, they may be ultimately proven to have been the smartest of the lot.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 03, 2015 4:26 PM GMT
    ^^

    the problem is, there's no risk sharing in Europe (e.g. there are no "Eurobonds"), so there is no incentive to fix the problem.

    Each country is on it's own to finance itself (Germans sell German bonds, Greece sells Greek bonds, etc), but they are all hamstrung with the same stupid currency.

    So Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc continue down the sewer because there's no way they can pay back what they borrow (maybe ever).

    It's gotten so bad that the German 10 year yields are now below that of Japan - for the first time EVER. Not a good sign.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 03, 2015 4:56 PM GMT
    Lately, I have to wonder if Europe is somewhere between the US and the middle east, in terms of clinging to mid evil identities that lead to sectarianism. I doubt if the average earthling could tell the difference between people from various European countries, yet they all have long histories of imperialism and trying to take over the world.

    I think the US and China know better. Who wants the whole world when you're already massive, militarized and stretched thin?