Avoiding bad dates

  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 2:34 AM GMT
    Hey guys, What are your thoughts on how to avoid bad dates? I've had more bad dates in the last year than I care to recall. Plenty of guys to date here in NYC -- but a bad date to me is worse than none at all. It's a waste of time and money. If I meet up with someone and one or both of us is just not interested -- fair enough, that's not what I consider a bad date. Give me your thoughts on what to put on my OKCupid profile in the future. In a month or so, I plan to start looking for dates again, God help me. Lol.

    Here's what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

    --Be yourself.
    --Be emotionally available.
    --Be direct with possible rejection: "I'm not interested."
    --Respond to calls or texts in a reasonable time-frame.
    --Be definite about any plans to meet -- no "let's play it by ear."
    --No squeezing dates in before other items on your schedule.
  • Tig3r

    Posts: 139

    Feb 02, 2015 3:11 AM GMT
    What do you consider a "Bad Date" is the question I want an answer to. It would be easier to make suggestions if I had an idea on that question.
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    Feb 02, 2015 4:56 AM GMT
    Watch out for dead monkeys around the table.

  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Feb 02, 2015 5:40 AM GMT
    Fair enough, you are free to post your bucket list(s) all over the place. It would be a bit too optimistic to assume that the guys replying will be really observing it, though.

    You live in a major metro area, and some of the things that you are listing as your 'no go' items are part of the urban life's set up. Be prepared to cut some slack if you feel that the guy deserves it.

    It always takes two to tango, but one has got to take the lead... So, take charge, and stick with the sane basics.

    Do not appear to be too keen. Most guys are not into the ball and chain, and a rulebook, too. They'll run for the hills, before you even get a chance.

    Try to focus on the guys with common interest/content. People are all about themselves, and very little about the other people. A few guys will have sex with anyone willing and considered desirable, but very few guys are going to be into serious dating, unless they have common content interest to keep them involved with you over the time.

    Dating is really marketing. (Sad as this may sound...). Try to define your unique sales proposal, and make it work for the guys you would want to date.

    IMHO, most bad dates are bad because the guys meeting up are simply bored, and are hoping to bump into someone who'll bring novelty and fun into their lives. So, hardly anyone does any footwork before, and the date turns, meh, awry. Projecting yourself as being specifically desirable to a given group of guys, may make them re-think their "whatever" prevailing attitude, and try to do their best for the date to be a success.

    Good Luck, too...


    SC

  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 1:38 PM GMT
    Tig3r saidWhat do you consider a "Bad Date" is the question I want an answer to. It would be easier to make suggestions if I had an idea on that question.


    Well... maybe I should have said "Avoiding bad SECOND OR LATER dates."

    Over coffee at the first meet-up both can see if there is some interest in getting to know each other better -- in terms of the physical and personality aspects. If there's no mutual interest, OK, no more dates need be made.

    But if there is mutual interest, then I want to prevent any possible communication difficulties, bizarre scheduling, really any source of unclarity.

    For example, say you've had a good conversation over coffee and there's mutual interest in meeting up again. Then I would ask him: "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Or: "Do you like to 'play it by ear' or set up definite times for dates?" Or: "Do you let people know when you're are not interested clearly?" Or: "Are you really emotionally over your ex?"

    Basically, what OTHER sources of confusion can you think of AFTER the first meet up that could be avoided by communicating about them?

    For example: last year I dated a guy who was really nice, but I eventually thought he was too young for me. I just told him that clearly and politely... since then we have hung out as friends.

    Another example: I had two dates with a guy that went pretty well. He actually lives a couple blocks away and we are still in touch. But after the second date he started sending unclear signals. He said: "We're not really dating." And I thought, OK, he's not interested... fair enough. But then he texts me: "Why did you stop responding to my texts?" Looking back, I bet he was actually interested in meeting me more -- but he was unclear. Communication difficulties got in the way of learning enough about each other and making any decision, positive or negative.

    Another example: I had a good conversation with a guy and he then took me shopping for cologne -- that was something I actually never do and it was fun. Then we walked in Central Park. Then, he invites me out for dinner and a movie. But when I meet him for "dinner" he says: "I thought you would be too tired to see a movie, so I am meeting my friends in one hour." That was the end of that.

    The list could go on... how to head off these situations before they happen? I'd rather not even meet people who are going to do this kind of thing -- when this kind of thing crops up, my inclination is to just drop it entirely. Or, if I do meet them, I'd like to make it clear up front that the whole range of these unpredictable irregularities is off the table for me. Is that possible?









  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 1:56 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud said

    You live in a major metro area, and some of the things that you are listing as your 'no go' items are part of the urban life's set up. Be prepared to cut some slack if you feel that the guy deserves it.

    Try to focus on the guys with common interest/content. People are all about themselves, and very little about the other people. A few guys will have sex with anyone willing and considered desirable, but very few guys are going to be into serious dating, unless they have common content interest to keep them involved with you over the time.

    Dating is really marketing. (Sad as this may sound...). Try to define your unique sales proposal, and make it work for the guys you would want to date.




    Thanks for all the advice man. Yeah, I know everyone has an off day sometimes or things get lost in the shuffle, so I'll try not to be too perfectionist.

    Also, true about what you say about content. I bring up this topic because, in my previous experiences, form (communication practices, scheduling) has gotten in the way of content.
  • DiogoT94

    Posts: 22

    Feb 02, 2015 2:50 PM GMT
    Well, I started to see this guy two weeks ago, we met 3 times, it was fun and we had a good chat. But I didn't feel anything for him sadly, he was a great guy, caring and pretty polite that is until I turned him down, he went mad and started to insult and what not, he even thought we were already dating...
    I did not give him any clues of that, he did say once that he liked me and I didn't say anything, but he probabbly thought that since I did not say anything about that, it meant for him that I liked him aswell.

    Dating is harsh and some people are way too desperate, there's also the difference between hooks-up and real dates, if you don't think you feel attracted to someone you have to be honest, and in future dates I plan on being honest ASAP, so I don't have to deal with these dramas again...
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1032

    Feb 02, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    Noeton said
    For example, say you've had a good conversation over coffee and there's mutual interest in meeting up again. Then I would ask him: "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Or: "Do you like to 'play it by ear' or set up definite times for dates?" Or: "Do you let people know when you're are not interested clearly?" Or: "Are you really emotionally over your ex?"


    If someone starts asking me questions like this, it's a bad date.

    A date should not feel like an interview.

    "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Really? That's what you choose as a discriminating factor?

    You'll never get to know who I am by grilling me about trivial crap that fits your generic template of an ideal boyfriend.

    Dating involves taking risks.
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    Feb 02, 2015 4:33 PM GMT
    once my husband figured out i have no concept of time and will always be late things worked out better for him.

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Feb 02, 2015 4:39 PM GMT
    bro4bro said
    Noeton said
    For example, say you've had a good conversation over coffee and there's mutual interest in meeting up again. Then I would ask him: "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Or: "Do you like to 'play it by ear' or set up definite times for dates?" Or: "Do you let people know when you're are not interested clearly?" Or: "Are you really emotionally over your ex?"


    If someone starts asking me questions like this, it's a bad date.

    A date should not feel like an interview.

    "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Really? That's what you choose as a discriminating factor?

    You'll never get to know who I am by grilling me about trivial crap that fits your generic template of an ideal boyfriend.

    Dating involves taking risks.

    Ya, exactly. If someone started with a list like that, I'd tell him to Fuck Off. I'm not jumping through your hoops. Why not just be open and try to find out what is fun and interesting about the other guy?
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    Feb 02, 2015 5:00 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud said
    You live in a major metro area, and some of the things that you are listing as your 'no go' items are part of the urban life's set up.

    Yes, and also the gay dating setup. And the straight dating setup.

    I maintain that among the most important elements in dating are patience & perseverance. A good man is hard to find (and of course finding a hard man is even better). icon_redface.gif

    Lots of guys expect success with every dating attempt. The opposite is more typical for most of us. So you keep slugging away (not too hard, you don't wanna bruise him), not letting yourself get discouraged with the inevitable strike outs, foul balls and bad dates.

    When I came out 20 years ago I was already in my 40s, hadn't a clue about the gay scene or dating, didn't know at all what to do, how to act. So I started going to gay clubs & bars, not to cruise, but to merely observe. I'd put the lessons to use later, but first I needed to learn. I really can be that methodical.

    I often went during their less crowded hours, I didn't want the noisy mob scene. Just enough guys there that I could study them in peace. See who was successful at attracting guys, and those who weren't. And I detected the patterns the winners used, and avoided those the losers had.

    I'm a pretty good study of people. And so I also analyzed guys in terms of potential gay dating material. Making myself attractive in the eyes of others was only half of the equation - I had to be able to filter the guys who might be approaching me.

    I began to learn how to identify the winners & losers in that sense, too. Who were the flakes, the deadbeats, the unreliable ones, the ones who'd let me down and not return my calls or emails. Many (though not all) wear it on them as clearly as my gaydar tells me who's straight or gay.

    But dating is an art, not a science. There's no precision, no exact formula, and no guaranteed results. As I said at the beginning, you gotta prepare yourself for many misses, and fewer misters that are gonna be keepers than you had hoped. I agree with you, that the OP is probably just experiencing the normal cost of doing business in gay dating.
  • NeuralShock

    Posts: 411

    Feb 02, 2015 6:49 PM GMT
    Why the fuck has "dating" become so hard?

    If I feel like I am in an interview I will actually get a bit rigid, we should be talking about funny stuff and sharing experiences and just talking. I don't like being around super-serious people or people that take themselves too seriously... it honestly irritates me and I cannot even stand friends/peers like that.

    If you need to probe me with direct questions like "What are your thoughts on marriage and kids?" I will immediately feel awkward. It's like asking "What are your thoughts on abortion".


    I don't even talk about that shit with my immediate family, who I AM close with.

    To me we've made dating too hard, waaayyyyyyyy too hard. It should be about just hanging out and enjoying eachother's company not some ridiculous interview.

    And lets say someone DOES go all interview style and is looking for "the one"... so sorry to say but it's basically been proven you'll cut out every guy and be left wondering "but whaaai am aye singlgeee"! And this happens one hell of a lot, I see a lot of guys whining about this.


    Don't look for perfection, you'll never get it. Instead look for someone who is healthy and compliments you and is fun to be around.


    If you go sniffing around looking for reasons to throw someone in a dumpster you WILL find a reason, everyone has some glaring flaw.


    I feel the gay community needs to realize that bolded, underlined and italicized statement. Cause right now I see a lot of delusional thinking.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Feb 02, 2015 7:12 PM GMT
    I have also discovered that there are serious cultural differences between dating guys in the US, (San Francisco, CA) and western Europe.

    First date in San Francisco usually felt like a job interview.

    One guy asked me "How much do you make a year" within the first five minutes of our date. Yup, that date ended right away.

    Another dude wanted to know all about my LTR plans with him within the very few first minutes of our first (and last) date. He admitted that he was very LTR oriented... So was I, but I never said that I wanted to have my LTR with him.

    One dude complained because he thought I was living too close to the Whole Foods. This was his big problem... I actually liked living close to the Whole Foods on the Lower PacHeights. Not shabby at all. icon_biggrin.gif

    Dudes in Europe were mostly interested in my music taste, sports, opera likes, languages I spoke. One dude wanted to know about the car I was having at that time.

    It, too, felt like an interview, though to a much lesser degree.

    Now, asking questions will always make the other dude feel like he is going through a job interview. Not asking questions will often be perceived as lack of interest.

    I found out that asking the dude to tell me about his travel plans, what makes a perfect day for him, what's his fav eatery, etc., a bit more productive for the initial encounter.

    In the end, there is no fool-proof strategy here, so the best you can do is use some common sense, and hope that things will go fine.

    SC

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    Feb 02, 2015 8:21 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud said
    Now, asking questions will always make the other dude feel like he is going through a job interview. Not asking questions will often be perceived as lack of interest.

    Just so. I learned some years ago to ask more about HIM, than to tell him all about ME. If he wants to really know about me he'll ask.

    But neither can I interrogate him. You ask polite, non-probing questions that allow him to open up about himself, IF he wishes. Most guys are flattered that you show a genuine interrest in them, which I do. Because even though I'm in a monogamous relationship, I continue to meet guys all the time, and good manners still apply. And I really am curious to have a guy tell me about himself.
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    Feb 02, 2015 9:20 PM GMT
    Noeton saidHey guys, What are your thoughts on how to avoid bad dates? I've had more bad dates in the last year than I care to recall. Plenty of guys to date here in NYC -- but a bad date to me is worse than none at all. It's a waste of time and money. If I meet up with someone and one or both of us is just not interested -- fair enough, that's not what I consider a bad date. Give me your thoughts on what to put on my OKCupid profile in the future. In a month or so, I plan to start looking for dates again, God help me. Lol.

    Here's what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

    --Be yourself.
    --Be emotionally available.
    --Be direct with possible rejection: "I'm not interested."
    --Respond to calls or texts in a reasonable time-frame.
    --Be definite about any plans to meet -- no "let's play it by ear."
    --No squeezing dates in before other items on your schedule.


    The only not so good dates I have had are from OK Cupid. They ask hundreds of questions as you know but not the important ones for men dating men.
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 9:23 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    Destinharbor said
    bro4bro said
    Noeton said
    For example, say you've had a good conversation over coffee and there's mutual interest in meeting up again. Then I would ask him: "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Or: "Do you like to 'play it by ear' or set up definite times for dates?" Or: "Do you let people know when you're are not interested clearly?" Or: "Are you really emotionally over your ex?"


    If someone starts asking me questions like this, it's a bad date.

    A date should not feel like an interview.

    "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Really? That's what you choose as a discriminating factor?

    You'll never get to know who I am by grilling me about trivial crap that fits your generic template of an ideal boyfriend.

    Dating involves taking risks.

    Ya, exactly. If someone started with a list like that, I'd tell him to Fuck Off. I'm not jumping through your hoops. Why not just be open and try to find out what is fun and interesting about the other guy?


    +2



    I don't think people really get what I'm at here. I'm assuming there is some mutual physical and personality attraction -- so we are past the first date or coffee phase. So, I'm just focusing on the formulation/brainstorming of a few, easy-to-remember questions that gauge whether or not a guy is worthy of a second or later date. I'm thinking hypothetically. Assuming that you have a good first date -- like a coffee and conversation and there's physical attraction -- THEN what are the red flags that would indicate that further dates would be a waste of time and money? So, yes, of course dates SHOULD be fun... but that's not the part of the dating experience I'm thinking about. If some guys (like you guys) are turned off by such basic questions, well, that's the equivalent of an unacceptable response -- or an expression that you cannot communicate about the basic things that are involved in a relationship. Either way, a clear answer has emerged and the case can be closed.

    In other words: It's actually my point exactly that if you are turned off by these questions, I would NOT want to get you know you any better. That's the point.

    I am not "starting off" with these questions... maybe putting them on OKCupid, but that's different -- OKCupid is meant to be a filter. If I brought them up in conversation, it would only be after there's signs of mutual interest. But, also, if you are going to tell someone to "Fuck off" for asking such basic questions to start off with or at any point (which sounds dramatic on a message board but I think few would actually do it in real life), I think you have bigger personal psychological problems to worry about than the dating world. Looks like these kinds of questions reveal those kinds of problems with ease.
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    Feb 02, 2015 9:24 PM GMT
    Stay in bed on any Friday the 13th.
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    Noeton saidHey guys, What are your thoughts on how to avoid bad dates? I've had more bad dates in the last year than I care to recall. Plenty of guys to date here in NYC -- but a bad date to me is worse than none at all. It's a waste of time and money. If I meet up with someone and one or both of us is just not interested -- fair enough, that's not what I consider a bad date. Give me your thoughts on what to put on my OKCupid profile in the future. In a month or so, I plan to start looking for dates again, God help me. Lol.

    Here's what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

    --Be yourself.
    --Be emotionally available.
    --Be direct with possible rejection: "I'm not interested."
    --Respond to calls or texts in a reasonable time-frame.
    --Be definite about any plans to meet -- no "let's play it by ear."
    --No squeezing dates in before other items on your schedule.


    The only not so good dates I have had are from OK Cupid. They ask hundreds of questions as you know but not the important ones for men dating men.


    What would some of those important ones be, in your opinion?
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 9:38 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    SilverRRCloud said
    Now, asking questions will always make the other dude feel like he is going through a job interview. Not asking questions will often be perceived as lack of interest.

    Just so. I learned some years ago to ask more about HIM, than to tell him all about ME. If he wants to really know about me he'll ask.

    But neither can I interrogate him. You ask polite, non-probing questions that allow him to open up about himself, IF he wishes. Most guys are flattered that you show a genuine interrest in them, which I do. Because even though I'm in a monogamous relationship, I continue to meet guys all the time, and good manners still apply. And I really am curious to have a guy tell me about himself.


    Yeah, definitely. Again, this is the content side of dating. What I'm thinking about is the form/structure side.
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 9:53 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidI have also discovered that there are serious cultural differences between dating guys in the US, (San Francisco, CA) and western Europe.

    First date in San Francisco usually felt like a job interview.

    One guy asked me "How much do you make a year" within the first five minutes of our date. Yup, that date ended right away.

    Another dude wanted to know all about my LTR plans with him within the very few first minutes of our first (and last) date. He admitted that he was very LTR oriented... So was I, but I never said that I wanted to have my LTR with him.

    One dude complained because he thought I was living too close to the Whole Foods. This was his big problem... I actually liked living close to the Whole Foods on the Lower PacHeights. Not shabby at all. icon_biggrin.gif

    Dudes in Europe were mostly interested in my music taste, sports, opera likes, languages I spoke. One dude wanted to know about the car I was having at that time.

    It, too, felt like an interview, though to a much lesser degree.

    Now, asking questions will always make the other dude feel like he is going through a job interview. Not asking questions will often be perceived as lack of interest.

    I found out that asking the dude to tell me about his travel plans, what makes a perfect day for him, what's his fav eatery, etc., a bit more productive for the initial encounter.

    In the end, there is no fool-proof strategy here, so the best you can do is use some common sense, and hope that things will go fine.

    SC



    I've definitely noticed a lot of cultural differences, too. On the content side of dating, I know culture can be the source of a lot of variation. But on the form side -- the structure of communication and scheduling -- which I'm trying to focus on here -- I think there can be differences, as well. But this admittedly gets one into stereotypes that inevitably don't fit everyone. For example, someone once told me recently that Eastern European and Russian people do this thing where: "I like you so I'm mean to you." Now that is a communication issue that from personal experience I haven't seen with American or Western European guys -- thank goodness!
  • Noeton

    Posts: 208

    Feb 02, 2015 10:36 PM GMT
    DiogoT94 saidWell, I started to see this guy two weeks ago, we met 3 times, it was fun and we had a good chat. But I didn't feel anything for him sadly, he was a great guy, caring and pretty polite that is until I turned him down, he went mad and started to insult and what not, he even thought we were already dating...
    I did not give him any clues of that, he did say once that he liked me and I didn't say anything, but he probabbly thought that since I did not say anything about that, it meant for him that I liked him aswell.

    Dating is harsh and some people are way too desperate, there's also the difference between hooks-up and real dates, if you don't think you feel attracted to someone you have to be honest, and in future dates I plan on being honest ASAP, so I don't have to deal with these dramas again...


    Thank you -- You see what I'm getting at here (unlike some of the other responses so far -- but I appreciate the constructive ones). Here's a situation where communication and clarity are the key issue. So, applying the method I'm thinking of, if I were him, I would have said: "I like you," but also added, "Do you like me?" And, if you answer "no" or don't answer, then case closed. Drama prevented.

    Any other constructive responses that grasp the basic premise?
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    Feb 03, 2015 2:27 AM GMT
    This is just my experience:
    1. You should be able to make each other smile and laugh by the end of the 2nd date and between texts.

    2. You should be able to make eye contact with each other and have it last at least 2-3 seconds and you should catch yourselves checking each other out a couple of times.

    3. There should be something non-sexual that you two can do together for hours without even noticing the time. If you're noticing the time, it usually means you're burning out of energy versus being reenergized.

    4. You should both be asking each other questions throughout both dates.
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    Feb 03, 2015 4:42 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    SilverRRCloud said
    Now, asking questions will always make the other dude feel like he is going through a job interview. Not asking questions will often be perceived as lack of interest.

    Just so. I learned some years ago to ask more about HIM, than to tell him all about ME. If he wants to really know about me he'll ask.

    But neither can I interrogate him. You ask polite, non-probing questions that allow him to open up about himself, IF he wishes. Most guys are flattered that you show a genuine interrest in them, which I do. Because even though I'm in a monogamous relationship, I continue to meet guys all the time, and good manners still apply. And I really am curious to have a guy tell me about himself.

    Yabut, you can't both do that. I always find this to be curious advice.

    anyway, I think SC is on the right track. If you ask the right questions (usually open-ended) or share the right things about yourself, you can infer something about the issues that are of interest to you. For instance, I want kids, but I probably wouldn't directly ask if he wants kids. I might, however, mention that I have a niece and observe how he reacts to that. Lots of interest? He might want kids of his own. Or not, but I get some idea.
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    Feb 03, 2015 1:18 PM GMT
    Noeton said
    Alpha13 said
    Noeton saidHey guys, What are your thoughts on how to avoid bad dates? I've had more bad dates in the last year than I care to recall. Plenty of guys to date here in NYC -- but a bad date to me is worse than none at all. It's a waste of time and money. If I meet up with someone and one or both of us is just not interested -- fair enough, that's not what I consider a bad date. Give me your thoughts on what to put on my OKCupid profile in the future. In a month or so, I plan to start looking for dates again, God help me. Lol.

    Here's what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

    --Be yourself.
    --Be emotionally available.
    --Be direct with possible rejection: "I'm not interested."
    --Respond to calls or texts in a reasonable time-frame.
    --Be definite about any plans to meet -- no "let's play it by ear."
    --No squeezing dates in before other items on your schedule.


    The only not so good dates I have had are from OK Cupid. They ask hundreds of questions as you know but not the important ones for men dating men.


    What would some of those important ones be, in your opinion?


    OK Cupid is a huge filter. Peeps on that site believe that dating is an interrogation process . So if you use it expect that dates are going to be more of an interrogation.

    The son of Venus ,Cupid , shot arrows of love that caused a person to be infatuated with another. One does not get shot with the arrow of love sitting behind a computer screen answering questions. Statistically straight folks meet their mates thru friends. Socialization is the key to dating. Focus on social activities in order to find love.
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    Feb 03, 2015 2:45 PM GMT
    bro4bro said
    Noeton said
    For example, say you've had a good conversation over coffee and there's mutual interest in meeting up again. Then I would ask him: "Do you respond to texts and calls in a timely manner?" Or: "Do you like to 'play it by ear' or set up definite times for dates?" Or: "Do you let people know when you're are not interested clearly?" Or: "Are you really emotionally over your ex?"


    If someone starts asking me questions like this, it's a bad date.

    A date should not feel like an interview.

    Right on. Whatever happened to the concept of a "date"? Nothing good.

    It used to be just going out with someone you know, or were getting to know.