How do you feel about religion?

  • wesv

    Posts: 907

    Feb 02, 2015 7:19 AM GMT
    I know some of you are sighing as you read my question.

    But you know what? I'm not typically gay in a sense that I don't actually "hate" religion. I have great respect for spirituality because of its great contribution to humanity. I can't imagine this world without it's existence.
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    Feb 02, 2015 8:03 AM GMT
    everyone has a belief system.
    why should i be interested in yours? not

    realjock has a section for discussing spirituality and you could post there.

  • Hjalmar

    Posts: 97

    Feb 02, 2015 10:38 AM GMT
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    Feb 02, 2015 5:14 PM GMT
    I am adherent to no religion though I've been a student of Dzogchen for about 20 years, the atiyoga fitting well with my lifelong lucid dreaming and aptitude about both dream yoga & kundalini yoga. Raised by humanists, non religious of Jewish descent on my father's side for generations and on my mother's since breaking away from "that horse thief", my Zionist great grandfather who was Orthodox Jewish, settling half his family in the USA and half in then Palestine in the 1800s, I was brought up in the Jewish traditions and trained for five years (involving Tue & Thur classes after regular school plus Sunday school plus most Saturday services and some Friday night services) leading up to my Bar Mitzvah in Conservative Judaism.

    Even as a skeptical little kid I questioned religion, I suspect motivated then by my sexuality about which I was well aware and which did not concur with all of Torah; and so for five years I challenged my Cantor, charged with my education, so vigorously (annoyingly) that he threatened to deny me my Bar Mitzvah. And so for the last year or so I bit my tongue, though I didn't think that kosher--even if it was then, it certainly isn't any more--and upon accomplishing Bar Mitzvah (my Cantor sung beautifully, hitting all those notes I loved and his face turning purple like I knew it would--I remember teasing him about that), I never again returned to Temple. That was my last day.

    I've since taken to study various religions, especially the more esoteric aspects of the major ones and native cultures, particularly including Kabbalah (mystic Judaism), of course, as well as The Rosicrucian Order (mystic Christianity), Sufism (the mysticism of Islam), various Native American spiritualties with an emphasis on Toltec sorcery (the dreaming of Castaneda fame) and Dzogchen (the atiyoga, a somewhat esoteric school of Buddhism).

    So how do I feel about religion? Well, to sum up simply, in light of my experience, both my natural dreaming capacities and where I sought answers and explanations (particularly considering that even in just my lifetime, when I was a kid, western science wrongly thought it impossible to be conscious during sleep--so they didn't have those answers I required), I never bought into it but I do see it, mostly in metaphor, as a valid place to explore a store of information and to express experience on a stage for presentation.
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    Feb 02, 2015 6:11 PM GMT
    Life is rife with uncertainties and questions. If it gives people solace so what. Just don't try to shove it down my throat or influence the political process to deny anyone else their civil rights.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Feb 02, 2015 7:07 PM GMT
    The Church of the FSM is the only one and true religion. All of the others are false prophets. My God is more cute than your God. ;)



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    Feb 02, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    Believe what you will, but in the end, I believe it is all nothing. Meaninglessness. Confabulation at the greatest level to justify the human condition.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    I think heaven is just a fantasy and a reward used to control people. I think hell was dreamt up to terrorize people into obeying and worshipping an invisible king. I think it's a mass delusion and that a bunch or self righteous nincompoops would rather justify Santa than reconcile the homophobia, sexism and bigotry toward nonbelievers that makes religious people so insufferable and menacing. It disgusts me the way religious creeps make others feel morally obligated to respect their lies and sick delusions. They make skeptics out to be immoral and try to stifle their expressions of individuality. Worst of all, the arrogance of believers who are more concerned about a magical destination in the next life than in protecting our very real and fragile planet is utterly disgraceful. It's abdication of our place in the animal kingdom, and of any responsibly for what we do in this one life.
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    Feb 02, 2015 7:53 PM GMT
    Faith and spirituality is great... Especially when the belief is centered around the premise of Being Excellent to Each Other...

    But when that faith gets fractured by various religions hat try to specify exactly who you should and should not be excellent to, and how excellent you can be to those with money and political favor as apposed to others... That's when it falls apart for me.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 02, 2015 8:13 PM GMT
    I think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.

  • Feb 02, 2015 8:25 PM GMT
    Religion is man-made, and among its biggest victims, in my opinion (and EXPERIENCE,) are its adherents, especially the repressive religions or such literal interpretations of them, so we should not hate people for being religious (which bugs me that some people do). Having said that, it can serve well for certain people in some contexts giving them a sense of structure and meaning to life, and I respect that. I believe in freedom of and from religion equally, not force either way. Peace out!!! icon_smile.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 8:29 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidI think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.

    You're a gay Catholic? Have you no self respect?icon_eek.gif

    Lol, seriously, though, I was the only person in my eighth grade Catholic school class who refused to get confirmed. Catholics are spiritual bigots. We had two are three non Catholic students in the whole school, and they were not permitted to fully participate in communion and other creepy cult practices. They basically were sent to detention while the other students had to sit in church... In retrospect, I'm not sure which is the worse punishment.icon_confused.gif

    I just think the Vatican is morally bankrupt, as well. They are just a wealthy political group, and they will never remove bigotry against gays from the Bible. Sick evil anti-woman pedophiles... And that's just scraping the surface.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 8:31 PM GMT
    IntenseFreedom saidReligion is man-made, and among its biggest victims, in my opinion (and EXPERIENCE,) are its adherents, especially the repressive religions or such literal interpretations of them, so we should not hate people for being religious (which bugs me that some people do). Having said that, it can serve well for certain people in some contexts giving them a sense of structure and meaning to life, and I respect that. I believe in freedom of and from religion equally, not force either way. Peace out!!! icon_smile.gif

    Religion is forced on people when they are young and impressionable.
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    Feb 02, 2015 8:32 PM GMT
    Religion or Christianity? The two are not always the same...in my opinion at least. That being said...my faith means a great deal to me. I know it's not the popular opinion...but it will always be an important part of who I am.
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    Feb 02, 2015 9:10 PM GMT
    wesv, this: "I'm not typically gay in a sense that I don't actually "hate" religion."

    Whether you hate religion or not is not a gay indicator. *winks*

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 9:23 PM GMT
    meninlove said wesv, this: "I'm not typically gay in a sense that I don't actually "hate" religion."

    Whether you hate religion or not is not a gay indicator. *winks*


    That's true. There are some straight people who hate religion, too.
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    Feb 02, 2015 9:34 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    meninlove said wesv, this: "I'm not typically gay in a sense that I don't actually "hate" religion."

    Whether you hate religion or not is not a gay indicator. *winks*


    That's true. There are some straight people who hate religion, too.


    LOTS of them.
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    Feb 02, 2015 10:09 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.


    ... Catholics are spiritual bigots. We had two are three non Catholic students in the whole school, and they were not permitted to fully participate in communion and other creepy cult practices. They basically were sent to detention while the other students had to sit in church...


    Communion is "the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level."

    Since non-Catholics do not share the same belief in the Real Presence of Jesus - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the consecrated host they CANNOT be in communion with Catholics and therefore CANNOT partake of Communion.

    The Catholic Church takes this belief quite seriously. It sets them apart from most of the Christian churches, which I know sticks in your craw.

    I don't know why they couldn't attend mass. Anyone can attend mass but only baptized Catholics in a state of grace may receive Communion.

    Ignorance is a terrible thing - religious or otherwise. icon_wink.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 10:19 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.


    ... Catholics are spiritual bigots. We had two are three non Catholic students in the whole school, and they were not permitted to fully participate in communion and other creepy cult practices. They basically were sent to detention while the other students had to sit in church...


    Communion is "the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level."

    Since non-Catholics do not share the same belief in the Real Presence of Jesus - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the consecrated host they CANNOT be in communion with Catholics and therefore CANNOT partake of Communion.

    The Catholic Church takes this belief quite seriously. It sets them apart from most of the Christian churches, which I know sticks in your craw.

    I don't know why they couldn't attend mass. Anyone can attend mass but only baptized Catholics in a state of grace may receive Communion.

    Ignorance is a terrible thing - religious or otherwise. icon_wink.gif

    I'm hardly ignorant as to the justification for their bigotry. You can defend your Catholic heritage all you want, but it's an organization that treats women as unequal, gay sex as sinful, and doesn't let people of other faiths join them at the table as they feast on their savior's flesh and blood.

    I think it's disgraceful that anyone would support their immoral cult, let alone gay men.

    Edit: plus, they say you need forgiveness for original sin (the sin of a woman) and to be baptized by one of their notoriously pedophilic priests in order to get into heaven. What shitty excuses for so called moral people!
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    Feb 02, 2015 10:25 PM GMT

    LOL, Hottjoe, you need to read up on original sin.
  • johnnyqhomo7

    Posts: 119

    Feb 02, 2015 10:51 PM GMT
    as a gay christian who has went through hell dealing with fundamentallist people... I am sorta sick of religion. I am not saying its bad or anything, im just taking a rest from it for a while. Any hot white guys out there for a black dude? Im me icon_smile.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 11:03 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    LOL, Hottjoe, you need to read up on original sin.

    Why, so I can more accurately mock your silly beliefs?icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 02, 2015 11:12 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    UndercoverMan said
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.


    ... Catholics are spiritual bigots. We had two are three non Catholic students in the whole school, and they were not permitted to fully participate in communion and other creepy cult practices. They basically were sent to detention while the other students had to sit in church...


    Communion is "the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level."

    Since non-Catholics do not share the same belief in the Real Presence of Jesus - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the consecrated host they CANNOT be in communion with Catholics and therefore CANNOT partake of Communion.

    The Catholic Church takes this belief quite seriously. It sets them apart from most of the Christian churches, which I know sticks in your craw.

    I don't know why they couldn't attend mass. Anyone can attend mass but only baptized Catholics in a state of grace may receive Communion.

    Ignorance is a terrible thing - religious or otherwise. icon_wink.gif

    I'm hardly ignorant as to the justification for their bigotry. You can defend your Catholic heritage all you want, but it's an organization that treats women as unequal, gay sex as sinful, and doesn't let people of other faiths join them at the table as they feast on their savior's flesh and blood.

    I think it's disgraceful that anyone would support their immoral cult, let alone gay men.

    Edit: plus, they say you need forgiveness for original sin (the sin of a woman) and to be baptized by one of their notoriously pedophilic priests in order to get into heaven. What shitty excuses for so called moral people!


    Again your ignorance is showing. Nowhere in scripture is the original sin committed in the Garden of Eden referred to as the sin of Eve. It is referred to as the sin of Adam. Your parents wasted their money sending you to that Catholic school. You learned nothing.

    Maybe if you closed your mouth long enough to hear, you might have learned something. But you think you have it all figured out. I imagine as an eighth grader you thought you were smarter than anyone. Your chutzpah is astounding.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 02, 2015 11:24 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    HottJoe said
    UndercoverMan said
    HottJoe said
    Svnw688 saidI think faith and spirituality are excellent. Of course I'm referring to most recognized religions, which do NOT encourage violence (e.g., Islam but NOT radical Islam).

    It's a highly personal matter, but so is sexuality and we flaunt and talk about that, so I think we should feel free to talk about it openly.

    I don't like religion when it's used to oppress minorities. I do like how religion is often used to help minorities (e.g., feeding the homeless, clothing the poor, HIV testing the vagrant, sheltering immigrants, Catholic Charities' services writ large, etc.).

    For what it's worth, I'm happily Catholic. To me, it is the faith I was called to. As long as a person does not force their religion onto another person, or try to intermingle church and state, then I don't see the problem.


    ... Catholics are spiritual bigots. We had two are three non Catholic students in the whole school, and they were not permitted to fully participate in communion and other creepy cult practices. They basically were sent to detention while the other students had to sit in church...


    Communion is "the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level."

    Since non-Catholics do not share the same belief in the Real Presence of Jesus - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the consecrated host they CANNOT be in communion with Catholics and therefore CANNOT partake of Communion.

    The Catholic Church takes this belief quite seriously. It sets them apart from most of the Christian churches, which I know sticks in your craw.

    I don't know why they couldn't attend mass. Anyone can attend mass but only baptized Catholics in a state of grace may receive Communion.

    Ignorance is a terrible thing - religious or otherwise. icon_wink.gif

    I'm hardly ignorant as to the justification for their bigotry. You can defend your Catholic heritage all you want, but it's an organization that treats women as unequal, gay sex as sinful, and doesn't let people of other faiths join them at the table as they feast on their savior's flesh and blood.

    I think it's disgraceful that anyone would support their immoral cult, let alone gay men.

    Edit: plus, they say you need forgiveness for original sin (the sin of a woman) and to be baptized by one of their notoriously pedophilic priests in order to get into heaven. What shitty excuses for so called moral people!


    Again your ignorance is showing. Nowhere in scripture is the original sin committed in the Garden of Eden referred to as the sin of Eve. It is referred to as the sin of Adam. Your parents wasted their money sending you to that Catholic school. You learned nothing.

    Bible lessons are pointless, but, for the record, Adam's fall is clearly blamed on Eve's weakness...

    What I learned in Catholic school was that I wasn't good enough to be acceptable, that I was a sinner for things I couldn't change about myself, and that I was inferior compared to heartless heterosexuals. You're just a despicable asshole for supporting a religion that does that to young people.
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    Feb 02, 2015 11:31 PM GMT
    ^^ When the unintelligent have no rational argument they resort to vulgarity and ad hominem attacks. Even when presented with a fact you blithely dismiss it out of hand because it does fit your argument.

    I went to Catholic schools from fifth through twelfth grade. I never once heard homosexuality discussed in anyway shape or form.

    I attended Sunday mass for more than half my life. Never once heard a sermon on homosexuality.

    I got more negativity about homosexuality from society at large than I ever got from church.

    Your anti-religion zealotry makes you irrational.