What do you think of Brian Williams and his mistake?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 06, 2015 9:31 AM GMT
    It's so odd.

    I really used to think highly of him.
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Feb 07, 2015 3:06 AM GMT
    I think it's minor ethically speaking. He was telling a personal story and not being a reporter. His entire oeuvre is going to be scrutinized, and if little can be made of the veracity of his reporting, then he'll come out OK.

    And if he has a long history, then I can say we've been warning everyone about Howard Beale for a long time. Nobody listens. Now he's literally on every network. I would hope that incidents like these would motivate news organizations to do better, but it only seems to embolden them to push the envelope further.

    There's almost no conservative or liberal media, certainly not in the mainstream. It's all corporate media which has no agenda that includes the truth, unless it's profitable, and we all know that the truth is often bad for profits.

    "In advertising, there's no such thing as a lie. There's only expedient exaggeration." Roger Thornhill
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Feb 07, 2015 3:09 AM GMT
    What's this mistake?
  • Hypertrophile

    Posts: 1021

    Feb 07, 2015 3:34 AM GMT
    mybud saidWhat's this mistake?


    He was addressing a group of veterans, I believe, and related the story of when he was in Iraq, and a chopper he was on was forced down after being hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. Turns out it wasn't struck by a grenade, but may have taken small arms fire. Another chopper flying ahead, I believe, was the one struck. Everyone's memory seems to be sketchy and there are, of course, conflicting stories.

    As I say, he wasn't reporting the story, but telling a story, so IMO it's not particularly unethical. Anyone else would get a pass and it would get laughed off as embellishment. I guess because he's a news anchor, supposedly in the tradition of the great news anchors of the past, he's not allowed artistic license even speaking informally.

    Ironic that of all the anchors who have been proven to be liars and time after time broadcast veritably false information, he could be the one to lose his job, for this.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 07, 2015 4:11 AM GMT
    mybud saidWhat's this mistake?


    he lied
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    Feb 07, 2015 4:19 AM GMT
    I'm very surprised at that. Reading this thread I was perversely hoping it was just Alzheimer's (which might be) but seems he's been progressively bending this story over a number of years.

    This to me doesn't seem a so much a matter of ethics as capacity/capability, either would justify firing, though he might survive it. But that big money might want to distance itself real fast from this. It looked to me like ego interfering with objectivity, telling a story not from a sense of history but from a sense of self-bolstering, that he would lose such control as to place his sense of importance over his job of telling the correct story.

    It's a huge problem in the industry, what fame does to a person's ego. Not just for the celebrity but for their family and friends as well. There can be a ripple from that which can run through generations.

    Just think how powerful mass media is on the public, now picture what that might do to the entertainers.

    If he's lost it, that might be understandable, but remaining in place might be not acceptable.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 08, 2015 5:18 AM GMT
    You're wrong Physiqueflex.

    It goes back to 2003 after he was doing news reports in Afghanistan. Once home Williams began telling people both in private and on television and then later in his own autobiography about his having been in a US Army helicopter that was hit by an RPG and forced down.

    It was a total lie. It's a total lie he's told on talk shows, his own news reports and in print. It's taken all this time because the Army officers who knew the truth have only recently left the service and hearing Brian Williams tell the story again they finally spoke out.

    Brian Williams came on NBC News and apologized and gave an explanation of what "really happened."

    The army officers AND the Pentagon came right back and said, "NOPE! You're lying again!"

    Essentially rather than admit he had lied and be a man about it, he tried to get by with a 2nd lie and it got called out on it in less than 24 hours.

    NBC execs haven't gone public with a statement for OR against Williams yet.

    There have been other newsmen fired for telling smaller lies than this. It'll be interesting to see how this is handled.


  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 08, 2015 5:27 AM GMT
    fire the fucking war-mongering prostitute
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    Feb 08, 2015 10:06 AM GMT
    He also lied about his experience with hurricane Katrina. He said he saw a man's body float by in the French Quarter of New Orleans and there was no water in the French Quarter. There is a pattern here. So sad.
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    Feb 08, 2015 2:14 PM GMT
    How do you vividly remember something that absolutely did not happen to you? I don't understand it here and I didn't understand it when Hillary "misremembered" her warplane situation when she ran for president. Making up shit to give you street cred is one thing. Lying about war situations when there are scores of soldiers who are killed, injured or threatened everyday in real life is shameful.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 08, 2015 3:31 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidHow do you vividly remember something that absolutely did not happen to you? I don't understand it here and I didn't understand it when Hillary "misremembered" her warplane situation when she ran for president. Making up shit to give you street cred is one thing. Lying about war situations when there are scores of soldiers who are killed, injured or threatened everyday in real life is shameful.


    psychopaths do it without blinking an eye
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    Feb 08, 2015 4:48 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidHow do you vividly remember something that absolutely did not happen to you? I don't understand it here and I didn't understand it when Hillary "misremembered" her warplane situation when she ran for president. Making up shit to give you street cred is one thing. Lying about war situations when there are scores of soldiers who are killed, injured or threatened everyday in real life is shameful.


    Well said. Hillary's got a boatload of such "misremembrances," literally going back to her birth, if not so immaculate conception. She claimed her parents named her after Sir Edmund Hillary, who conquered Mt. Everest - but not until AFTER she was born.

    http://www.wnd.com/2006/10/38409/

    Which is worse: her original lie, or the smarmy excuse her aide used to finally explain it away? Love the NYT's complicity in it, too!

    Total. Frigging. Fake.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 08, 2015 5:03 PM GMT
    I think it's a total chicken-shit move to "remove himself from his daily broadcast , because he's become too much a part of the news" yeah he gets caught in a major lie and runs and hides. take your billion dollar contract buy-out NBC will offer u and get the FUCK OFF MY SCREEN YOU PATHOLIGICAL LIAR.

    anybody that thinks the "News" is News is a fool,

    ALL of it is entertainment, it's written, edited, and performed for ratings. Period. every story is manipulated through narrative to "grab" the viewer, and that's the way the consumer wants it. They never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    Williams is a talking head, he doesn't have a college degree, he was selected to be the face of NBC news because marketing focus groups liked him best, (he doesn't scare grandma, and doesn't threaten the masculinity of male viewers in key demographics) not because of his journalism creds.

    narcissistic psychopaths will always lie, even about things they don't need to, just to draw more attention to themselves. By and large the public embraces these types.

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    Feb 08, 2015 5:33 PM GMT
    thadjock saidI think it's a total chicken-shit move to "remove himself from his daily broadcast , because he's become too much a part of the news" yeah he gets caught in a major lie and runs and hides. take your billion dollar contract buy-out NBC will offer u and get the FUCK OFF MY SCREEN YOU PATHOLIGICAL LIAR.

    anybody that thinks the "News" is News is a fool,

    ALL of it is entertainment, it's written, edited, and performed for ratings. Period. every story is manipulated through narrative to "grab" the viewer, and that's the way the consumer wants it. They never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    Williams is a talking head, he doesn't have a college degree, he was selected to be the face of NBC news because marketing focus groups liked him best, (he doesn't scare grandma, and doesn't threaten the masculinity of male viewers in key demographics) not because of his journalism creds.

    narcissistic psychopaths will always lie, even about things they don't need to, just to draw more attention to themselves. By and large the public embraces these types.

    Agree completely. Also commend you for not doing what others here have done: 1) Given him a pass because of his politics, and 2) Blaming people with unliked politics for making this a false scandal. Those who make everything into a political debate don't effectively support their position.
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    Feb 08, 2015 5:59 PM GMT
    woodfordr saidHow do you vividly remember something that absolutely did not happen to you? I don't understand it here and I didn't understand it when Hillary "misremembered" her warplane situation when she ran for president. Making up shit to give you street cred is one thing. Lying about war situations when there are scores of soldiers who are killed, injured or threatened everyday in real life is shameful.


    I've been disgustingly accused online of being responsible for the death of my loved one by someone who told a crap load of lies about me. I've been ridiculed for having mentioned my partnership with a guy who happened to be a TV personality and portrayed as some sort of narcissist for having had associations with award winners of all sorts when fame is nothing new to me, my family having been in entertainment continuously, through today, and since before grandma dancing Vaudeville. That person who lied so pathologically would not have always described me like that. There was a trigger, a rejection, which set him off even though he himself had given cause for the rejection. So even though someone might suddenly misperceive pretty much all of reality, even their own, it doesn't mean that they think themselves as lying at the time. Their shit becomes real for them. And this happens a lot in life.

    A cousin who always treated me like crap, about which I allowed having been raised to love her and feeling sorry for her that she never had a closeness with her immediate family, that when she eventually, inevitably? betrayed me so terribly, I finally figured out how monstrous were her misperceptions all along.

    This person who for decades would use me whenever her life got tough and then dump me when she found someone else to entertain her only to come back each time they dumped her, this person who I always took back even though she treated me like crap, at the very end, one of the things she said was: "we've always been in and out of each other's lives."

    WHAT! You wanna play that back one more time? YIKES FUCKING YIKES.

    So this bitch the entire time thought that I was an accomplice in her treating me like shit. That our in and out of each other's lives wasn't her dumping me when I was no longer of use, but was some sort of mutual arrangement.

    Noooooooo!. Yeah, right, like tell that to our family and my friends who saw you fucking me all along. BITCH!

    But that's how those people function. In their own little worlds, with their own little misperceptions of the world. They don't think they are living a lie. They think that's what's real. And many of them have varying degrees of lucidity for varying amounts of time. All of that wavering in intensity and frequency.

    Add to that mix of personality and those triggers, the pressures of mass media, of entertainment. HUGE pressures. It's so easy for these guys to lose their way. So many families get fucked up by that. Even just big money can shred a family. Now add to that politics, or entertainers in front of millions of viewers. Yikes!

    Think about how easy it is for anyone to lose their way in their minds. Now add all that to it. I don't believe for one second that this guy was trying to be shameful about men in combat. I think he forgot himself. I think he became the presenter of a life staged instead of sharing a life lived. I think he lost his way.
  • SENCGuy1

    Posts: 247

    Feb 08, 2015 6:12 PM GMT
    NBC should fire him.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 08, 2015 6:33 PM GMT
    SENCGuy1 saidNBC should fire him.


    they've had an army of accountants, marketing executives, and pollsters working 24/7 over the weekend to do the cost/benefit analysis on that. Money is the only thing that matters if he can still make NBC money he'll stay.

    it's the same reason Domestic Violence Enabler Roger Goodell still has his job.

    I'd pay to see katie couric do brian's exit interview.

    this is all too priceless because NBC had just launched thier "trusted source" bullshit promo's for willimas "nightly News" program to try and stop the ratings hemmorage to David Muir on ABC.

    maybe NBC's own serial cheater, and resident misogynist Matt Lauer can fill in till they find the next full time host.
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    Feb 08, 2015 8:06 PM GMT
    NBC is a total tool of the left.Brian Williams is a huge leftie.If he goes I won't miss him.That being said it is sad that his career was ended because of a stupid story.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 08, 2015 8:27 PM GMT
    He lied.

    It appears he's also exaggerated, aka lied, about Katrina bodies floating in the water from the vantage of his hotel room. It seems while water was apparent, and bodies were floating in the 9th ward, there were no bodies floating in the French Quarter.

    Here's the problem. Once a person is okay with exaggerating, it becomes second-nature. Meaning the investigation will likely find NUMEROUS examples of exaggerations in his story. Never out-right lies. But add-ons. To create a narrative. This does not bode well for Mr. Williams.

    And let's not be emotional about this. This is a man, who has been afforded a phenomenal salary and lifestyle because of his position and hard work. While this is a dark mark and scar forever on his work, he is the one who lied. Kicking him out of the chair will not render him destitute. He will not want for food. The world will still spin. We needn't have sympathy for him like he's our grandpa and "how could they do that to this nice old man?"

    Ultimately, veracity and truthfulness are a trait that is prized above all else in journalism. While "tall tales" might be okay at a bar amongst friends, where a 5 miles trek turns into a 10 mile trek, and the tornado goes from an F1 to an F4, that is a certain standard. Journalists are, importantly, held to a HIGHER STANDARD. This simply cannot stand. It'd be analogous to having a judge who "lied" and exaggerated a little off the bench regarding his/her decisions and opinions. Even if it didn't happen ON the bench, it happened, and it's the APPEARANCE of impropriety.

    He's a liar. He's rich. It's time to let someone else take over. Don't cry for him, he'll be just fine. He'll land some teaching gig at Harvard or wherever he wants to retire, and he has millions.

    I can't stand liars.

    UPDATED: His salary is allegedly 13M a year, and he has an estimated net worth of 42M.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 08, 2015 9:07 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidHe lied.
    ...
    Here's the problem. Once a person is okay with exaggerating, it becomes second-nature. Meaning the investigation will likely find NUMEROUS examples of exaggerations in his story. Never out-right lies. But add-ons. To create a narrative. This does not bode well for Mr. Williams.

    And let's not be emotional about this. This is a man, who has been afforded a phenomenal salary and lifestyle because of his position and hard work. While this is a dark mark and scar forever on his work, he is the one who lied. Kicking him out of the chair will not render him destitute. He will not want for food. The world will still spin. We needn't have sympathy for him like he's our grandpa and "how could they do that to this nice old man?"

    Ultimately, veracity and truthfulness are a trait that is prized above all else in journalism. While "tall tales" might be okay at a bar amongst friends, where a 5 miles trek turns into a 10 mile trek, and the tornado goes from an F1 to an F4, that is a certain standard. Journalists are, importantly, held to a HIGHER STANDARD. This simply cannot stand. It'd be analogous to having a judge who "lied" and exaggerated a little off the bench regarding his/her decisions and opinions. Even if it didn't happen ON the bench, it happened, and it's the APPEARANCE of impropriety.

    He's a liar. He's rich. It's time to let someone else take over. Don't cry for him, he'll be just fine. He'll land some teaching gig at Harvard or wherever he wants to retire, and he has millions.

    I can't stand liars.

    UPDATED: His salary is allegedly 13M a year, and he has an estimated net worth of 42M.


    Well said, and what a problem it is. The MSM's shirking its responsibility to thoroughly investigate and report "the news" - and vet the players who make it - in a fair and impartial manner has been the most disappointing development in American journalism since Dan Rather and his sidekick Mary Mapes first falsely attacked Bush II's TX national guard service about 45 days before the 2004 election, as this excellent 2012 summary of the story tells:

    http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/truth-or-consequences

    There was no doubt that Rather's motivation was partisan, though his act didn't deter but drove others to commit similar acts and become even more sloppy in their reporting. For me, though you and others may certainly disagree, the worst case of this was, and remains, the pass the MSM gave and continues to give Obama on nearly every aspect of his personality and presidency. Recall the furor over Bush II's academic records (and Romney's for that matter), which were nevertheless made public; Obama's still aren't and the MSM continues to show no desire to make them so. I sure would like to know the complete academic background of a future president, or any candidate for office, for that matter, but we were denied this. You know the inference that arises from the "loss" or secreting of evidence: that it contains something its subject seeks to suppress. It a reasonable enough one to form the basis for a jury instruction in most state and federal courts.

    Then there's his infamous "I'll have more flexibility" line, whispered to a Russian leader during the 2012 campaign; if any other American uttered such a potentially treasonable line, he'd at least be put thru the investigative wringer, if not run out of town; here, we heard nary a peep on the questionable confidence, even from Fox, who would have been expected to follow up more thoroughly. So yes, the problem of sloppy journalism persists. What will it take to get American journalism to reform itself and retrieve the once-great reputation it had? No "national dialogues," corporate retreats, or any of that other HR "inspired" nonsense, please. Perhaps it's time to give a more expansive reading to NYT v. Sullivan and make such sloppiness more readily actionable for damages AND attorneys' fees at law.
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    Feb 08, 2015 9:19 PM GMT
    socalfitness said Also commend you for not doing what others here have done: 1) Given him a pass because of his politics, and 2) Blaming people with unliked politics for making this a false scandal.

    Are you even on the same planet with the rest of us? His politics are CONSERVATIVE. He was a fan of Dubya. He was a big-ass cheerleader for the Iraq war.
    Seriously, is it just a reflex with you now? Do you even bother to think? Have you lost the capacity?
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    Feb 08, 2015 9:24 PM GMT
    I think he should resign. NBC needs an anchor with integrity, gravitas. A journalist.

    I nominate Sean Hannity.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 08, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
    @MGINSD

    With respect to the grade issue, GWB released in 2004 his college transcript WITH THE GRADES BLACKED OUT.

    While your general argument that the MSM went light on Obama might carry some water, I wouldn't hang my hat on the grade issue. It is NOT the norm to release undergrad or graduate school grades.

    Tax returns, it's customary. Grades, no.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 08, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    He's a liar. He's rich. It's time to let someone else take over. Don't cry for him, he'll be just fine. He'll land some teaching gig at Harvard or wherever he wants to retire, and he has millions.

    I can't stand liars.

    UPDATED: His salary is allegedly 13M a year, and he has an estimated net worth of 42M.


    I don't know wtf his salary has to do with the question, that's the going rate for a network news anchor. apparently he's got good representation. using his financial status as a reason to fire him is the same as saying they should fire him becuz his daughter plays a slut on tv.

    It does sound like he needs a better money manager though , how can u make $13 mil a year and only be worth $42 mil? dude got a gambling prob or something. gotta invest man! stop burning ur paycheck on private jets and hookers. kill that hip-hop lifestyle B.

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    Feb 08, 2015 10:06 PM GMT
    Svnw688 said@MGINSD

    With respect to the grade issue, GWB released in 2004 his college transcript WITH THE GRADES BLACKED OUT.

    While your general argument that the MSM went light on Obama might carry some water, I wouldn't hang my hat on the grade issue. It is NOT the norm to release undergrad or graduate school grades.

    Tax returns, it's customary. Grades, no.


    Fair enough, but I would like to see complete transcripts, including grades, from at least every nominee for office of cabinet level or above, state and federal. They're clearly relevant, and the voters, not the nominees, should be setting the standard for what's released. Just because it hasn't been done before isn't sufficient reason not to start doing so now. I would certainly encourage the 2016 GOP nominees to do so, though whether they take my advice is, at least, speculative.