Axelrod: I Advised Obama to Conceal Support for Marriage Equality

  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Feb 10, 2015 6:32 PM GMT
    Axelrod: I Advised Obama to Conceal Support for Marriage Equality


    Read more at http://www.bilerico.com/2015/02/axelrod_i_advised_obama_to_conceal_support_for_mar.php
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 10, 2015 6:36 PM GMT
    metta8 saidAxelrod: I Advised Obama to Conceal Support for Marriage Equality


    Read more at http://www.bilerico.com/2015/02/axelrod_i_advised_obama_to_conceal_support_for_mar.php


    does anyone actually believe these political scum bags>
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
    I absolutely believe him. I would venture to guess that 95% of Senate has no issue with same sex marriage, but many have found it politically expedient to pretend otherwise. You don't get elected to the Senate unless you are at least somewhat cosmopolitan and highly educated.

    The House is probably somewhat different.

    I would say it is naive to ignore the pressure for politicians to claim certain political stances.
  • Kollektiv

    Posts: 24

    Feb 11, 2015 4:21 PM GMT
    What's the big deal? We all knew Obama was lying. And it's perfectly fine. I'd much rather him lie and win than have people like McCain become president.
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    Feb 11, 2015 4:27 PM GMT
    Kollektiv saidWhat's the big deal? We all knew Obama was lying. And it's perfectly fine. I'd much rather him lie and win than have people like McCain become president.


    Nice moral and ethical values, those. And when the lies turn against you, then what? You'll have only yourself to blame, though something tells me you'll try to pawn it off onto someone else.
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    Feb 11, 2015 6:34 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Kollektiv saidWhat's the big deal? We all knew Obama was lying. And it's perfectly fine. I'd much rather him lie and win than have people like McCain become president.


    Nice moral and ethical values, those. And when the lies turn against you, then what? You'll have only yourself to blame, though something tells me you'll try to pawn it off onto someone else.


    Oh fuck off. You were a lawyer, right? Or did you make that up?

    You'd have McCain, who'd NEVER advance gay civil rights...and never had to equivocate about it, because...he's an honest man? Contrasted with Obama, who had to choose political expediency so that our Supreme Court wouldn't be stacked with more Scalias and Thomases, and THAT lie offends you?

    What kind of fucking lawyer were you? An honest lawyer? Were you even a lawyer? I find your origin story completely unbelievable.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 11, 2015 6:48 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Kollektiv saidWhat's the big deal? We all knew Obama was lying. And it's perfectly fine. I'd much rather him lie and win than have people like McCain become president.


    Nice moral and ethical values, those. And when the lies turn against you, then what? You'll have only yourself to blame, though something tells me you'll try to pawn it off onto someone else.


    true, it's a viscous circle - elections are just choosing who's lies you want to believe

    it's sad, but with news being presented at an 8th grade comprehension level now, what can you expect?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 11, 2015 6:54 PM GMT
    Obama has flip flopped on gay marriage eight times since he campaigned for the Illinois senate seat in 1997.

    He supports anything and anyone that will help him get elected and then drops that support as soon as it becomes politically liability.

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    Feb 11, 2015 6:55 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    MGINSD said
    Kollektiv saidWhat's the big deal? We all knew Obama was lying. And it's perfectly fine. I'd much rather him lie and win than have people like McCain become president.


    Nice moral and ethical values, those. And when the lies turn against you, then what? You'll have only yourself to blame, though something tells me you'll try to pawn it off onto someone else.


    Oh fuck off. You were a lawyer, right? Or did you make that up?

    You'd have McCain, who'd NEVER advance gay civil rights...and never had to equivocate about it, because...he's an honest man? Contrasted with Obama, who had to choose political expediency so that our Supreme Court wouldn't be stacked with more Scalias and Thomases, and THAT lie offends you?

    What kind of fucking lawyer were you? An honest lawyer? Were you even a lawyer? I find your origin story completely unbelievable.

    Nice bitter nasty fuck. Typical extreme leftist. If you don't like what someone says, attack them. The bitterness is understood because more and more people see that Obama lies about many things and is incompetent in so many ways.

    No one should believe anything he says.

    http://nypost.com/2012/05/13/the-bribe-to-silence-wright/
    “Barack said, ‘I’m sorry you [Wright] don’t see it the way I do. Do you know what your problem is?’ And I [Wright] said, ‘No, what’s my problem?’ And he said, ‘You have to tell the truth.’ I said, ‘That’s a good problem to have. That’s a good problem for all preachers to have. That’s why I could never be a politician.’
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 11, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    ^^

    please, Hilary is even more of a nebulous chameleon
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 11, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    bobbobbob saidObama has flip flopped on gay marriage eight times since he campaigned for the Illinois senate seat in 1997.

    He supports anything and anyone that will help him get elected and then drops that support as soon as it becomes politically liability.



    What? Obama has done more than ANY president in the history of the United States to advance gay rights.

    (1). Obama repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT).

    (2). Obama came out and publicly support equal marriage.

    (3). Obama directed the DOJ to stop defending DOMA.

    (4). Obama nominated Sotomayor and Eagan, who will be votes FOR equal marriage in the upcoming marriage cases.

    Are you being obtuse and facetious, or do you honestly think Obama has let the LGBT community down?
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 11, 2015 7:32 PM GMT
    Here's info from another thread that relates to this one.

    If you really want to see where Obama, the Clintons and other liberals really stand on gay issues, look at the company they keep and the international dollars that fund their campaigns...


    mx5guynj saidThe Sultan of Brunei owns the hotel and passed the law to execute gays by stoning and is a "Good Friend" of Obama's:



    Obama is also rewarding the Sultan with a free trade agreement:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/bruneis-sharia-law-will-be-rewarded-by-obamas-fast-track-trade-deal_b_5277637.html

    The Clintons have stayed at the Sultan's palace and accepted millions of dollars from him:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/will-hillary-clinton-condemn-her-million-dollar-donor-who-is-out-to-stone-gays/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/hillary-clinton-photo-style-brunei-china_n_1861487.html

    LIBERAL DEMOCRATS: provide examples of a Republican President or Presidential Candidate supporting the execution of gays.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 11, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
    Err, Obama is President of the UNITED STATES, not any other foreign country. So I'm not real sure where that line of reasoning is going.

    And we still haven't addressed the gravaman of the argument: He repealed DADT, supports ENDA, publicly came out for equal marriage, and nominated 2 SC Justices who will be clear votes FOR equal marriage.

    If that's not support for equal marriage, I don't know what is. That he had to play "politics" is not criticism against him, but a credit to his acumen.

    Hate the game, not the player.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 11, 2015 7:49 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Svnw688 said
    What? Obama has done more than ANY president in the history of the United States to advance gay rights.

    (1). Obama repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT).

    (2). Obama came out and publicly support equal marriage.

    (3). Obama directed the DOJ to stop defending DOMA.

    (4). Obama nominated Sotomayor and Eagan, who will be votes FOR equal marriage in the upcoming marriage cases.

    Are you being obtuse and facetious, or do you honestly think Obama has let the LGBT community down?[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    (1.) DADT?
    One minute there's someone praising Clinton for instituting DADT and the next minute there's someone praising Obama for ending it. Make up your minds on this. You can't have it both ways. DADT led to a 300% increase dishonorable discharges for gays in less than eight months.

    (2.) Obama supporting marriage equality?
    Did you not read what I wrote above? Yes, he has publicly supported it.. just as many times as he's publicly been against it. The negatives cancel out the positives. All he's doing is playing politics with gays to get their support. If he was truly sincere about it would he be best buddies with a guy like the Sultan of Brunei who openly has gays in his nation imprisoned and stoned to death? Wake up, little boy.

    (3.) DOJ not defending DOMA?
    Are you so naive as the believe that's more for gays than as a measure against Republicans?

    (4.) Supreme Court Nominations?
    If you believe a man who has changed his views on gay equality eight times nominated Sotomayor, Kagan or anyone else to any position just because of their support for marriage equality you are truly living in fantasy land.

  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 11, 2015 8:13 PM GMT
    Some people just can't be pleased. As a fiction author, I am intimately familiar with the fact that no matter the quality, some people will love a work and others detest it. There are, literally, many people who call "Gone With The Wind," "A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man," and "Anna Karenina" BAD novels.

    I don't have to defend Obama's aggressively pro-gay agenda. The GOP has already done that in an inadvertent way, and history will do it in a formal manner.

    If you think Obama has been that bad for gay rights. Fine. I, most other people, and the HRC will be singing his praises until the cows come home.

    You're free to be dissatisfied. I, for one, won't be asking for a refund.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 11, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
    I know more about history than fiction.

    I have not said gays have not progressed under Obama. My point is that he, Hillary, and many other progressives make a stand for gay equality only when it is politically advantageous to do so. At any given time when supporting gay equality becomes a political liability Obama, Hillary and others have thrown us under the bus. To them we are nothing but a voting bloc they can and do exploit to gain power. Any notion that we are more than that to them is delusional.

    To summarize, they are willing to stand for anything so long as it is to their political advantage; therefore in reality they stand for nothing but their own political ambitions.

    Should you read history of movements resembling gay equality you'd know this matter is nowhere being resolved. After marriage is legalized in the last state there will be at least a decade of attempts to repeal it. Before it's over we will be thrown under the bus a few more times and most likely with tragic results for many gays.

    There's a very good relatively recent historical model for this. Abortion.

    The Supreme Court made it legal across the entire US in 1973. From 1973 to the early 1990s there were continual challenges to the legality of abortion. When all had failed the US experienced the greatest wave of domestic terrorism in its history all at the hands of the very same people who are so adamantly opposed to gay equality in 2015; the christian fundamentalists.

    Here's a partial list of the terror, murders, bombings and arsons they inflicted in order to achieve their goals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States

    Once violence began the progressives, the consummate artisans of doublespeak, who had championed abortions began to make concessions to the demands of christian fundamentalist terrorism. Take time to examine the way they have allowed abortion to become virtually illegal in more than half the states since their reign of terror and severely restricted in most others.

    This is what will happen to us. Christian fundamentalists are far more organized and well funded today that than in 1990. Already many of their leaders are speaking in terms of violence in order to impose their will on the matter of gay equality.

    Do you sincerely believe they will be less inclined to resort to violence against us than they were towards abortion doctors, clinics and supporters? If so you are fooling yourselves, living in a politically induced state of delusional euphoria.

    As soon as it is more to the advantage of people like Obama and Hillary to mollify their support of gay equality they will throw us under the bus the same way progressives threw abortion under the bus in the early 1990s.

    I've long predicted that before 2020 christian fundamentalists will begin their acts of terror against gay equality. When it begins you will hear politicians pay lip service to the cause while behind the scenes, they make concessions as they did during the same period or terror against abortion, in order to stay in their positions of power.

    Wake up to the reality or at least the possibility of what is most probably going to occur. Stop believing the people who switch their support for gay equality every few years are your friends.






  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 11, 2015 10:18 PM GMT
    @Bob

    I don't share that analysis at all. The LGBT movement is unprecedented in both its effectiveness and time (literally moving from illegal sodomy laws to probable marriage equality in a couple decades).

    Abortion was legalized, but with the explicit proviso that states COULD impose "reasonable" burdens and regulations on the practice. No such carve out would be available under marriage equality, so your analogy is off-the-mark. The carve out, "civil unions," are being termed per se retaliation and animus, and so the gamesmanship we see with abortion cannot happen with marriage equality.

    Insofar that you're talking about domestic terrorism and vigilante justice against abortion clinics, and trying to make that cross-over to gay marriages--I simply don't follow. The better speculation would be that evil straights would bomb OUR bars and clubs. But by and large they don't. Those are the visible symbols open to soft-target attack. But it doesn't happen.

    How would a domestic terrorist hurt a gay marriage. Violence at the ceremony? Reception? How would a terrorist know? What's stopping these violent one's from terrorizing us now? I'm just not buying it. Your appeal to the boogey man is falling on deaf ears here.

    Obama is a politician. Obama is a gay rights supporter, and always personally has been. That you're incapable of reconciling his political profile with his personal feelings, and the positive results flowing on the LGBT community, is your issue. Again, I won't be asking for a refund from Obama on LGBT issues. He's a champion for our kind. We should be so lucky to have him.
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    Feb 12, 2015 1:35 AM GMT
    Typical example of liberal hypocrisy, Obama now supports gay marriage but at the same time supports overseas regimes who execute gays.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 12, 2015 1:42 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidTypical example of liberal hypocrisy, Obama now supports gay marriage but at the same time supports overseas regimes who execute gays.


    It's not hypocrisy. It's called not letting perfection being the enemy of progress. Compromise. Politics.

    To state conservatives or the GOP is any different in its modus operandi, is ridiculous. All politicians are "hypocritical" in that sense, the difference being dems/liberals will GIVE your gay rear rights, and the repubs/conservatives want to criminalize your behavior and jail your butt.

    Thanks for playing.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 12, 2015 2:41 AM GMT
    I fully understand that you don't "share that analysis" and you'll quickly see that your reasoning for not sharing is totally irrelevant.

    It's not a matter of What you or I think. It is a matter of what is thought by the people who are opposed to gay equality. I'm basing my analysis on A. their actions in the past and B. the current tone of their rhetoric. I will follow up with some examples of it.

    So these words of yours have no relevancy in this discussion. "The LGBT movement is unprecedented in both its effectiveness and time (literally moving from illegal sodomy laws to probable marriage equality in a couple decades)." And you are mistaken about it being a couple of decades. The first notable push for gay equality/marriage began four decades ago in the early 1970s. At that time in the US there were a few churches and ministers bold enough to perform marriages for homosexuals. I attended weddings then and married my first mate in 1974 in Miami.

    But all of that is irrelvant. All that is relevant is as I have said above,
    1. What they have done in the past.
    2. What they say they intend to do in the future.

    Here's a link from a posted thread here in RJ not more than an hour old. The Klan out of Mississippi is making a call for violence over legalized marriage for gays in Alabama.

    http://splcenter.org/blog/2015/02/10/klan-group-issues-call-to-arms-over-alabama-same-sex-marriage-ruling/

    Do you know who Scott Lively is? He's a minister who wrote "The Pink Swastika" in which he propagandizes that gays were partners with Hitler. It's a widely read and popular book amongst fundamentalists and is in its 5th printing in 10 years, available on Amazon for $14, and can be borrowed from thousands of church libraries nationwide. Lively is the man who first exported anti gay christianity to Uganda and helped them writing their laws criminalizing it. He's consulted with other nations in Africa as well as help Vadmir Putin of Russia institute his anti gay laws.

    Search for Pink Triangle, Scott Lively.

    Have you heard of Bryan Fischer? Besides being a buddy of Lively, he runs the Mississippi based American Family Association's radio programming and is host of "focal point" AFA and The Family Research Council have been declared a hate group by both SPLC and the Pentagon because of Fischer's programs. On air, speaking on gay marriage, Fischer has said it will be settled "by ballots or bullets."
    Here's a link to a video about AFA, Fischer. Scott Lively, The Pink Swastika and the words "ballots or bullets" out of his own mouth. The video starts with how Fox News covered it. Listen to it so you will be fully enraged when you hear the truth.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qyyFP4601Q

    Here's how it was reported on CBN the Christian Broadcast Network.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTaYWuoJeA

    What these mean and men like them are telling their believers is all that is relevant.

    Again, for a third time, you brought up Obama supporting gay equality and try to say he has always been in spite of the well documented fact that he's spoken against it as often as he's spoken for it. Then you want to accuse me of having deafs ears? In any case what Obama supports and doesn't is irrelevant in this.

    You are too young to remember bombings and torching of gay bars, homes and businesses in the 1970s and 80s. You may remember the Atlanta lesbian bar bombed by Eric Rudolf. Before the deaths of Mathew Shepard and Billy Jack Gaither I personally knew over a dozen men who were killed for being gay and not one of their murderers was convicted of more than manslaughter. Most were declared not guilty. You're asking questions about how and where they will strike and your questions are irrelevant. Even your inability to understand that these people can and will resort to violence is irrelevant.




  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 12, 2015 3:38 AM GMT
    bobbobbob saidObama has flip flopped on gay marriage eight times since he campaigned for the Illinois senate seat in 1997.

    He supports anything and anyone that will help him get elected and then drops that support as soon as it becomes politically liability.



    Except that he got Congress to repeal DADT and DOMA, without the help of 97% of Republicans. How's that for dropping support due to political liability (Republicans)?

    Seriously, get over it!
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 12, 2015 3:42 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]bobbobbob said[/cite]Here's info from another thread that relates to this one.

    If you really want to see where Obama, the Clintons and other liberals really stand on gay issues, look at the company they keep and the international dollars that fund their campaigns...



    No thanks! We only need the Congressional Record to show where the votes are recorded on the issue. You prefer to be bitter and distracted. That is so unbecoming...
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    Feb 12, 2015 3:45 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidTypical example of liberal hypocrisy, Obama now supports gay marriage but at the same time supports overseas regimes who execute gays.


    Curious as to how that is different from you supporting the Republican party when they condemn gay marriage and gay lifestyles? My point is that you can support a person/group while not agreeing with every single stance they take. And so can the President. Having voted for both parties several times, I live by that.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 12, 2015 3:50 AM GMT
    woodfordr said
    mx5guynj saidTypical example of liberal hypocrisy, Obama now supports gay marriage but at the same time supports overseas regimes who execute gays.


    Curious as to how that is different from you supporting the Republican party when they condemn gay marriage and gay lifestyles? My point is that you can support a person/group while not agreeing with every single stance they take. And so can the President. Having voted for both parties several times, I live by that.


    The stupidity of the argument about "liberal hypocrisy" is analogous to saying that a Pro-lifer is hypocritical for buying goods Made in China, even though China policy mandates forced abortions on families who conceive too many children.

    Fail. Just Fail.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Feb 12, 2015 5:22 AM GMT
    How quickly some are brought comfort by politicians that lie. And now , see fit to boldly do so. Because the "end justifies the means".

    With the healthcare law lie, gay marriage and the myriad of other half truths what is to stop a Politician from simply lying to gain office then reverse all of the deviously obtained gains.

    Straight from Alinksy, and it is chilling.

    So we have Healthcare and "gay marriage" , both situations Obama has been proven to deliberately lie on.

    What about other things? Is it ok for him to lie about the IRS scandal? is it ok for him to lie because an election was at stake? And there was so much more work to be done?

    How about fabricating data about the economy or unemployment because bad news would just hurt the "cause"?


    Whats next? Its total Anarchy.

    Last why did Axelrod put this in the book? To sell books? Or to rehabilitate his own place in history. I question his motives.