Monogamy and "Open Relationships" thoughts... *long*

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 2:30 AM GMT
    During my "coming out" phase when I was around 22, I saw a sex therapist who told me that monogamy does not really exist in the gay community; that cheating is expected. I've actually found this to be true due to every one of my 5 boyfriends not being able to commit for longer than a couple months... they either went behind my back on craigslist, grindr, etc...or I actually caught them in the act in person or went through their phones and found shit. I've been friends with many couples who were in "open relationships," and i was very honest and blunt when I told them that to me, this was just a lack of self-control and a lack of commitment in disguise. I got some interesting arguments from them and I wanted you guys' opinions on these:

    One told me that the reason gay men "whore around" so much between ages 20-35 and get stuck in the partying and club phase longer than others, is because we did not get to experience the dating world in school growing up. Most of us were forced into staying in the closet during times where our peers are dating girls and are being fully accepted, while we had to hold unhealthy shame inside of us. This actually makes some sort of sense to me, but it's still not a very good excuse for constantly sleeping around and not being able to commit.

    Another couple told me that men are hedonistic beings and that we shouldn't deny ourselves sexual pleasures if both parties agree that cheating is ok in the relationship. Again, seems like an excuse for a lack of self-control and not wanting to get out of the whore phase.

    Some other friends..this time a younger couple 22 and 23 who I hang out with periodically, have been together for years and entered an open relationship after their first year of being together. They both cruise Grindr every day for new people to bring into their relationship, and they don't see a problem with it if both parties agree. They get a feel for the person than proceed to have BB sex with them and not worry about anything. They told me that gay relationships get boring after a while and the point of bringing someone else in "spices" things up.

    Interestingly in each of the gay couples I've described (and also others I've hung out with), there is always one partner who seems more open to the "open relationship" idea than the other, with the other simply being "submissive" and going with the flow to make the "dominant" happy.

    Now, I know not everyone is going to share my viewpoint. It just seems like the gay guys who are always sleeping around try to justify it by saying it's "the norm" in the gay community and should be expected. In my PERSONAL opinion.. I really have never had a hard time staying committed to someone I was with. Yeah I looked at porn and I looked at other guys in public, but I never once cheated nor did I really want to. Then again, I grew up with very accepting parents who taught me respect, monogamy, and commitment, all the while accepting my sexuality (when I came out at 19) and showing me lots of love. This makes me wonder if poor upbringings are responsible for men wanting to lie to their partners, have copious amounts of extra-"marital" sex, and if there are some sort of maladjustment issues going on that's keeping certain people from emotionally "growing up."

    I have at certain points over the past few years, even contemplated ending it all, because my "gay future" seemed so bleak. Bleak in the fact that I have found NO ONE around my age that wanted to be in a serious, monogamous relationship. I have seen a sex therapist off and on, battled bouts of panic attacks and severe depression, all related to these extremely negative experiences I've had with the "big city" gay community that surrounds me. I tend to be attracted to guys my age or younger, so you can see where the conflict is. I have nothing against older men, but it seems like they are the only ones that want a serious relationship.

    I know... I know... there are similar issues in the "straight world," however I strongly believe it takes gay men a lot longer to "grow up" and get to that "relationship" point than it does heterosexuals.

    I'm not saying wanting to have sex isn't normal, or that even we as humans, are in essence sex-driven animals.. I'm calling out the fact that we are the smartest creatures on this planet and have the capability to have self-restraint, and I'm honestly tired of my gay friends and community making excuses for their lack thereof...

    Simply looking for non-sarcastic opinions related to the ideas I discussed above.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:05 AM GMT
    Bottom line is man, you do what you want as far as relationships go.

    If you're OK with the open-relationship thing, then find yourself a compatible partner who shares that same feeling. If you're not into open relationships, then find yourself a partner who shares that same feeling too.

    And your life experiences are going to be different than everyone else too. Not everyone sees a sex-therapist. not everyone has accepting parents. not everyone comes out at 19. and not everyone who is 26 like you are, likes younger guys.

    The point is, everyone is different. but you can still find similarities. and those are the people you want to surround yourself with. Find people who share the same values in life that you do, and you're life will be much more fuller.

    If you say you are only interested in men younger than you, but those men don't want to be monogamous, that's a challenge you're putting yourself into -- but don't feel that you need to change to fit someone else's ideals. Stick with what you value.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:09 AM GMT
    willular saidBottom line is man, you do what you want as far as relationships go.

    If you're OK with the open-relationship thing, then find yourself a compatible partner who shares that same feeling. If you're not into open relationships, then find yourself a partner who shares that same feeling too.

    And your life experiences are going to be different than everyone else too. Not everyone sees a sex-therapist. not everyone has accepting parents. not everyone comes out at 19. and not everyone who is 26 like you are, likes younger guys.

    The point is, everyone is different. but you can still find similarities. and those are the people you want to surround yourself with. Find people who share the same values in life that you do, and you're life will be much more fuller.

    If you say you are only interested in men younger than you, but those men don't want to be monogamous, that's a challenge you're putting yourself into -- but don't feel that you need to change to fit someone else's ideals. Stick with what you value.


    This is why I was speculating on if different upbringings could possibly cause the lack of adjustment into "commitment" mode later in life. My problem is it's been extremely hard to find anyone who shares the values I laid out above. Living in a big city, most gay guys here want to "try" a little bit of everyone for the excitement and variety... :/ I guess I'm just what you would call a "hopeless romantic."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:13 AM GMT
    Don't say it like it's a bad thing man -- it's just what you value. nothing wrong with that. You're fortunate enough to live in a big city. some guys are stuck out in the middle of nowhere with even fewer options. It could be worse man. could it be better? sure, I suppose. but just keep your values in check.

    On the flip side, if YOU want to change your values because of YOUR own personal reasons, feel free to do so. but never change because you feel that you have to fit some kind of "norm" of everyone else around you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:16 AM GMT
    willular saidDon't say it like it's a bad thing man -- it's just what you value. nothing wrong with that. You're fortunate enough to live in a big city. some guys are stuck out in the middle of nowhere with even fewer options. It could be worse man. could it be better? sure, I suppose. but just keep your values in check.

    On the flip side, if YOU want to change your values because of YOUR own personal reasons, feel free to do so. but never change because you feel that you have to fit some kind of "norm" of everyone else around you.



    Oh I completely agree. I don't change my values for anyone else.. And that has caused me to be labeled as a bit of an outcast to the other gays here. But that's a whole different story. I'm really just curious about what everyone here thinks leads to different relationship styles and the idea that cheating is OK, moreso than I was looking for advice for myself.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:21 AM GMT
    I hear ya -- who knows, personal upbringing might be the #1 reason. I'm no social scientist at all...maybe there's a link to "broken" homes and promiscuity? or when someone was first exposed to sex? Nature vs nurture?
    I think it's possible most guys go thru some kind of "whore" phase when they initially come out. It seems like a trend I've noticed....lots of alcohol and sex, especially if it was later in life.

    I know from personal experience, seeing all my straight friends having relationships while they were teens, and me not coming out until I was 26/27...I felt like I was 10 years behind the times...and had to make up for lost causes. But also in the same token, feeling that I wanted "the one".

    Some folks, for them, sex is really imporant....and so if you wait and wait for a monogamous relationship and that person isn't a good sexual match, their relationship will fail. so the idea of having sex first...then relationship next might be their forte.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:29 AM GMT
    I can't believe a therapist told you this.
    Was he 26 also?
    Go to the "search profiles" then the search box type "monogamous"

    Willard just got married
    I've been with my man over 16 years
    and yes without cheating.
    the point is: there are a lot, and I mean a lot of us, out here you just can't see us, or choose not to.

    -You need to date guys 35 and up if you're ready to settle down with one and only one dick for the rest of your life.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 3:32 AM GMT
    dustin_K_tx saidI can't believe a therapist told you this.
    Was he 26 also?
    Go to the "search profiles" then the search box type "monogamous"

    Willard just got married
    I've been with my man over 16 years
    and yes without cheating.
    the point is: there are a lot, and I mean a lot of us, out here you just can't see us, or choose not to.

    -You need to date guys 35 and up if you're ready to settle down with one and only one dick for the rest of your life.



    He was actually a very well established (not to mention attractive) guy in his mid-40's. I still to this day hold a lot of respect for him, which is why it caught me off guard that this extremely intelligent man would tell me that cheating is the "norm." Part of me feels like he was just being realistic with me, because come to find out in the next 4-5 years after he told me that, he was actually right.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 4:03 AM GMT
    In LionEyes' thread, Would We Have A Gay Community Again? I gave an example of a downside of gays mainstreaming, which is the slut shaming. When I was writing that I had this vague feeling that I was leaving something important out. This thread is an excellent example of the other, and I think more important problem, which is that so many of today's young gay men believe that if they're not in a long term relationship they're going to live meaningless, miserable, worthless, and unhappy lives. The poster has this malaise so bad that he's even contemplated suicide. Very sad.

    This is a problem that the gay community needs to address.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 6:52 PM GMT
    The modern gay-rights movement was founded as a reaction against "heteronormative" values that were very prevalent in the 1950's. The most highly visible spokespersons were those who railed against commitment and monogamy.

    Then AIDS came along and no one thought they would live past 30.

    Then mobile apps came along and hooking up became incredibly eas.

    So you can see that from its beginning the gay-rights movement has been at best grudgingly tolerant of the ideas monogamy and commitment, and events have conspired to perpetuate the stunted maturity of many gay men. I suppose the arguments about delayed dating opportunities, etc., make some sense but it is odd that so many guys don't ever seem to get past the playing-around phase and grow up.

    Of course, there is a gay-marriage movement underway but I think it's really more of a fringe issue for most gay men at this point ... it's good to have the equal rights on paper, of course, but I'm not sure there's a huge level of interest in actually getting married.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 7:16 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer saidOf course, there is a gay-marriage movement underway but I think it's really more of a fringe issue for most gay men at this point ... it's good to have the equal rights on paper, of course, but I'm not sure there's a huge level of interest in actually getting married.

    No, I think it is huge, but primarily among the younger gay men; the "post AIDS" guys if you will.

    Those of us who were sexually active or out before AIDS remember how in those days gay marriage wasn't even on our radar. No doubt the post AIDS guys will find that very hard to believe.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 17, 2015 9:07 PM GMT
    According to your therapist, my husband and I don't exist.icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 9:18 PM GMT
    dustin_K_tx saidI can't believe a therapist told you this.
    Was he 26 also?
    Go to the "search profiles" then the search box type "monogamous"

    Willard just got married
    I've been with my man over 16 years
    and yes without cheating.
    the point is: there are a lot, and I mean a lot of us, out here you just can't see us, or choose not to.

    -You need to date guys 35 and up if you're ready to settle down with one and only one dick for the rest of your life.




    ...and we just had our 25th anniv in December. Monogamous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 17, 2015 9:20 PM GMT


    Hmm...This: "One told me that the reason gay men "whore around" so much between ages 20-35 and get stuck in the partying and club phase longer than others, is because we did not get to experience the dating world in school growing up. Most of us were forced into staying in the closet during times where our peers are dating girls and are being fully accepted, while we had to hold unhealthy shame inside of us. This actually makes some sort of sense to me, but it's still not a very good excuse for constantly sleeping around and not being able to commit."

    It is not an excuse, it's a very valid reason, though it only applies to some, not all.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Feb 17, 2015 9:49 PM GMT
    I don't believe a word you wrote. I don't believe you're in therapy (though you need to be) and I don't believe any therapist would say that. You're just a dime-a-dozen slut shamer trying to make us believe this is a reasoned post.

    All guys are inclined to "sow their wild oats." Yep that's a very old phrase. Because it's always been true. Guys settle down (stop "whoring around" as you so pejoratively put it) when they fall for someone and have reason to settle down. Most couples I know are mostly if not totally monogamous. Whatever they are is their business, not yours and certainly nothing you have any right to label with your moronic, ugly labels.

    If you can't find someone to love you, the reason is because you're not a very nice person. Stop being such a Westboro and try just being nice and maybe, maybe, you'll find someone who cares enough to stop "whoring around." But you'd better not try to feed him a pack of lies or childish moralizing like you did us or he'll run for the hills.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 18, 2015 11:16 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI don't believe a word you wrote. I don't believe you're in therapy (though you need to be) and I don't believe any therapist would say that. You're just a dime-a-dozen slut shamer trying to make us believe this is a reasoned post.

    All guys are inclined to "sow their wild oats." Yep that's a very old phrase. Because it's always been true. Guys settle down (stop "whoring around" as you so pejoratively put it) when they fall for someone and have reason to settle down. Most couples I know are mostly if not totally monogamous. Whatever they are is their business, not yours and certainly nothing you have any right to label with your moronic, ugly labels.

    If you can't find someone to love you, the reason is because you're not a very once person. Stop being such a Westboro and try just being nice and maybe, maybe, you'll find someone who cares enough to stop "whoring around." But you'd better not try to feed him a pack of lies or childish moralizing like you did us or he'll run for the hills.


    At this point, I don't think anyone here cares what you think anymore. I still can't figure out if you're a troll or just plain ole mean but my gut tells me it's the latter. Prove the OP is a liar or sit down and shut up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 19, 2015 3:15 AM GMT
    OK, I have been around for a long time and to be honest, I think that when it comes to men, a lot who say they are 100% monogamous, whether in gay or straight relationships, don't meet that standard. It seems that women don't find it so difficult if the relationship is fulfilling most of their needs. In gay male relationships you have two men so there are just more chances at least one will cheat. There is a lot of over-compensation because of the stereotype that gay men are sluts. But from my experience most men would be hard pressed to turn down a little variety now and then when it comes their way.icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 19, 2015 4:39 AM GMT
    strongbull saidOK, I have been around for a long time and to be honest, I think that when it comes to men, a lot who say they are 100% monogamous, whether in gay or straight relationships, don't meet that standard. It seems that women don't find it so difficult if the relationship is fulfilling most of their needs. In gay male relationships you have two men so there are just more chances at least one will cheat. There is a lot of over-compensation because of the stereotype that gay men are sluts. But from my experience most men would be hard pressed to turn down a little variety now and then when it comes their way.icon_biggrin.gif


    You put it very well. 2 men = higher chances of cheating than 1 man and 1 woman, due to increased desire for sex and variety overall. If both partners agree to it after a certain point of being together then so be it, but I'm referring to people who go through relationships like toilet paper due to their inability to literally not have sex with different people. This is an issue that does make it harder for someone of any age who is truly seeking a monogamous relationship. Harder to locate such guys, and harder to trust once they do find that special guy.
  • christastic

    Posts: 376

    Feb 21, 2015 4:55 AM GMT
    Radd said
    Destinharbor saidI don't believe a word you wrote. I don't believe you're in therapy (though you need to be) and I don't believe any therapist would say that. You're just a dime-a-dozen slut shamer trying to make us believe this is a reasoned post.

    All guys are inclined to "sow their wild oats." Yep that's a very old phrase. Because it's always been true. Guys settle down (stop "whoring around" as you so pejoratively put it) when they fall for someone and have reason to settle down. Most couples I know are mostly if not totally monogamous. Whatever they are is their business, not yours and certainly nothing you have any right to label with your moronic, ugly labels.

    If you can't find someone to love you, the reason is because you're not a very once person. Stop being such a Westboro and try just being nice and maybe, maybe, you'll find someone who cares enough to stop "whoring around." But you'd better not try to feed him a pack of lies or childish moralizing like you did us or he'll run for the hills.


    At this point, I don't think anyone here cares what you think anymore. I still can't figure out if you're a troll or just plain ole mean but my gut tells me it's the latter. Prove the OP is a liar or sit down and shut up.


    I know eh. All of his posts are invariably pro-fucking and anti-thinking. It's like he doesn't get laid much and wants everyone to sleep around more to increase his chances of getting a piece of the action lol
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 21, 2015 5:57 AM GMT
    i-smell-a-troll.jpg

    Some of what you posted doesn't add up and smells like BS. Other things you said make it sound like you're your own biggest problem in seeking a monogamous relationship.

    **Seeing a sex therapist? Problems about sex? That would seem to be a good reason for your "boyfriends" to look for better adjusted sexual partners.

    ** all 5 boyfriends not being able to commit for longer than a couple months. Most normal people, having had five boyfriends like that would wonder what the hell they're doing that would prompt this behavior. It would be a good time to do some introspection and work on improving yourself to be more desirable.

    **I actually caught them in the act in person or went through their phones and found shit. I don't guess it has ever occurred to you that what you're doing is violation of their privacy. All the guys I've ever met who did this are neurotic and paranoid. All it does is push guys away and make them trust you less. There's no way to ever build a trusting relationship on top of this behavior.

    **and i was very honest and blunt when I told them..... Bullshit. You are not very honest to sneak around and go into their phones looking at their private conversations.

    **I really have never had a hard time staying committed to someone I was with. that's understandable. You keep picking the wrong guys to get involved with and then expecting them to change to meet your expectations for a relationship. Go to the link I gave below and read more about this.

    **I've battled bouts of panic attacks and severe depression, all related to these extremely negative experiences I've had with the "big city" gay community that surrounds me. Panic attacks? Depression? All related to your negative experiences in big city gay life? It sounds to me that you are trying to blame every frigging person in the world for your problems to gain victim status in order to gain pity. Get off your ass, work on overcoming your problems and don't expect to have anything close to a decent relationship until you do.

    **I tend to be attracted to guys my age or younger, so you can see where the conflict is. Well, there you go. You want to have relationships with people who are younger and stupider than you are and it's no wonder you've ended up with five fuck buddies who started seeking sex with others after two months.

    ***I have nothing against older men, but it seems like they are the only ones that want a serious relationship. First you said you've had no problems staying committed to anyone. Then you don't date the older men more able to conduct serious relationships a nd go for the ones least able to form relationships. ALL YOU'RE DOING IS SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR FAILURE DUM ASS.

    Here's a link where I addressed issues that relate to this. Scroll down the page.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4005757/

    I've met a few guys IRL after they made posts like this in order to try to help them. I gave up because all of them had more problems than I wanted to take on. With no exception, all of them were flabby or obese and liked to cut down everyone else rather than do something to make themselves more desirable by overcoming their internal problems as well as their appearances.

    Nothing you've said has given me any reason to expect you are any different from the rest.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 7:01 AM GMT
    After reading the recent post from the guy about how he can't find a boyfriend because his dick is small, even though it sounds like he hasn't even tried, I'm beginning to think that these two are the same person. They're both variations on the same theme; can't find a boyfriend because of some problem with the gay community.

    Every so often we get these posters who write detailed scenarios who I suspect are authors who are using these forums to "test drive" story ideas on. Which I think is a rather clever tactic, but if they are using us I don't like the dishonesty behind it. But they'd probably not get as many responses if they simply said they had an idea for a story element and asked us what we thought about it.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Feb 21, 2015 5:47 PM GMT
    Radd said
    Destinharbor saidI don't believe a word you wrote. I don't believe you're in therapy (though you need to be) and I don't believe any therapist would say that. You're just a dime-a-dozen slut shamer trying to make us believe this is a reasoned post.

    All guys are inclined to "sow their wild oats." Yep that's a very old phrase. Because it's always been true. Guys settle down (stop "whoring around" as you so pejoratively put it) when they fall for someone and have reason to settle down. Most couples I know are mostly if not totally monogamous. Whatever they are is their business, not yours and certainly nothing you have any right to label with your moronic, ugly labels.

    If you can't find someone to love you, the reason is because you're not a very once person. Stop being such a Westboro and try just being nice and maybe, maybe, you'll find someone who cares enough to stop "whoring around." But you'd better not try to feed him a pack of lies or childish moralizing like you did us or he'll run for the hills.


    At this point, I don't think anyone here cares what you think anymore. I still can't figure out if you're a troll or just plain ole mean but my gut tells me it's the latter. Prove the OP is a liar or sit down and shut up.

    I'm surprised at you, Radd. The OP has recanted his statement that his shrink ever said that and he's also noticed that this entire diatribe on all gays being whores does sound slut-shaming. He ticked off why every choice but monogamy is either being a whore (count how many times he used that word!) or represents a personal failing. Or the product of bad parenting! I called him out. He's since partially retracted. I wasn't being mean. I was pointing out that what he wrote was belligerent and condescending. And untrue. And certainly not nice. I take him at his word that he regrets writing it. You, however, well maybe his original words resonated with you. I don't know. You surprise me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 11:00 PM GMT
    There is always the exception that bends the rule. I do believe that there are gay monogamous relationships in which both parties are happy. Cheating happens in the straight world just as much as it happens in the gay world. Which is this world. The bottom line we all are humans and are made of mistakes. I personally desire a monogamous relationship, but I will not hold my breath. It is possible though. Some people just like to play the gay card, and justify actions such as cheating acceptable. Some people are OK with open-relationships, and both partners seek other people for sex, and that is fine, the real problem is when you clearly state that you want monogamy and your partner betrays you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 27, 2015 12:46 AM GMT
    "Monogamish" has worked for me and my partner.
    Both of us feel bound for life to each other.

    Beyond being available to me for the rest
    of his life,
    I don't ask much.

    I don't ask for anything so inconsequential
    as 100% sexual fidelity.

    I ask him to do his best
    and I do the same.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 27, 2015 1:51 AM GMT
    I tend to agree with bobbobbob.

    @op Hurley226:

    Your post does not sound believable. How about not posting as a hidden member, and putting up a profile and some real pics? Perhaps you are not a troll - but then again -