Christians have waged their own ‘holy wars’

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    Feb 19, 2015 8:18 PM GMT
    Important Truth to know, right wing nut jobs have always been nut jobs icon_rolleyes.gif

    Who are the real terrorists?

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article10647395.html



    Crusader.jpg

    Though early Christianity was pacifist and only reluctantly embraced warfare after the Roman Empire became Christian in the fourth century, by the time Urban II called the First Crusade in 1095, holy war was an established concept for Christians. The deeply pious Christian ruler Charlemagne, for instance, conquered and forcibly converted neighboring pagan peoples in the 700s, slaughtering thousands who resisted.

    Christian religious violence continued well past the Middle Ages, with religious justifications for enslaving Africans and oppressing Native Americans, witch hunts, and a century and a half of religious wars among Christians after the Reformation. As late as 1659-61 the Puritan government of the Massachusetts Bay Colony executed four Quakers on religious grounds.

    The Enlightenment principles of religious freedom and toleration enshrined in the First Amendment had such an important place in the Bill of Rights, and in Western thought more generally, precisely because Western, predominantly Christian societies had long been so intolerant and had inflicted massive suffering on themselves and others.

  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 19, 2015 8:34 PM GMT
    yeah I think all those ISIS dudes are actually fallen Catholics
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    Feb 19, 2015 8:44 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidyeah I think all those ISIS dudes are actually fallen Catholics



    You could be on the right track, the disenfranchised Christians who broke from the Roman Empire, after fall (now called the Illuminati-violent Christians from a by gone era who went underground), are planning on returning to the 'home land' for more bloodshed, retribution from their non violent counterparts icon_eek.gif


    ISIS Threat Puts Rome on High Alert: ‘Never So Exposed’
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/02/17/isis-threat-puts-rome-on-high-alert-never-so-exposed/

  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Feb 19, 2015 10:37 PM GMT
    One of the last Crusades, indeed the last Crusade in Europe was launched by the Pope against Poland to stamp out the so-called Heresy of Unitarianism. A similar thing went down in Hungary, too, to also stamp out the Unitarians.

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    Feb 19, 2015 10:45 PM GMT

    It would appear not much has changed except their uniform and weaponry icon_idea.gif


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  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Feb 19, 2015 10:47 PM GMT
    It is certainly true that Christianity has, in earlier times, had its own holy wars and acts of terrorism. Instead of hiding it, it is best to acknowledge it and point out that we have changed and now strive (though often imperfectly) to follow Jesus' admonition to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    As in the Koran, it is easy to find passages in the OT that advocate behavior that is not acceptable to civilized people. Those passages should be seen as a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture and an unacceptable rationalization of the genocide committed by ancient Hebrews rather than something sanctioned by God. The idea that everything in the Bible expresses the Will of God is dangerous nonsense.
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    Feb 19, 2015 10:57 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidIt is certainly true that Christianity has, in earlier times, had its own holy wars and acts of terrorism. Instead of hiding it, it is best to acknowledge it and point out that we have changed and now strive (though often imperfectly) to follow Jesus' admonition to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    As in the Koran, it is easy to find passages in the OT that advocate behavior that is not acceptable to civilized people. Those passages should be seen as a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture and an unacceptable rationalization of the genocide committed by ancient Hebrews rather than something sanctioned by God. The idea that everything in the Bible expresses the Will of God is dangerous nonsense.



    Now, if we could just put it all together icon_idea.gif


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    Feb 19, 2015 11:04 PM GMT
    The Crusaders were of the Roman Catholic Church who indeed fought wars against both Jews and Muslims alike.

    But the Catholic Church as we know it today was not founded on Jesus Christ or his apostles, as it itself claims. Rather it was founded after Emperor Constantine had received an occult vision before defeating a rival emperor in AD 313 and merging the Church to the State with himself as Pontiff, and with it, the right be become the Bishop of Rome, and of all the churches in his Empire.

    After his Resurrection, Jesus instructed his apostles to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons, and make disciples of all nations, starting at Jerusalem (not Rome) along with further instructions for all of them to love one another, just as he loved them, so that the watching world will know that they are his disciples, and believe.

    Jesus Christ, who was the founder of the true Church (in this context, a global nation of true believers) had made it clear that love acted out in works of charity is to be the real strength of the church, and not physical conquest.
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    Feb 19, 2015 11:17 PM GMT
    NotThatOld saidThe Crusaders were of the Roman Catholic Church who indeed fought wars against both Jews and Muslims alike.

    But the Catholic Church as we know it today was not founded on Jesus Christ or his apostles, as it itself claims. Rather it was founded after Emperor Constantine had received an occult vision before defeating a rival emperor in AD 313 and merging the Church to the State with himself as Pontiff, and with it, the right be become the Bishop of Rome, and of all the churches in his Empire.

    After his Resurrection, Jesus instructed his apostles to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons, and make disciples of all nations, starting at Jerusalem (not Rome) along with further instructions for all of them to love one another, just as he loved them, so that the watching world will know that they are his disciples, and believe.

    Jesus Christ, who was the founder of the true Church (in this context, a global nation of true believers) had made it clear that love acted out in works of charity is to be the real strength of the church, and not physical conquest.




    Christians to Blame for the 'War on Christianity'
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dale-hansen/christians-to-blame-for-the-war-on-christianity-_b_6692026.html

    The problem is that Christians have spent so much time pretending to be victims that they have become oblivious to their own indiscretions.

    The reality is that all non-Christians are asking for is equal treatment. These continued battles are simply a reaction to religious overreach that the courts have declared illegal. If Christians just stopped advocating for public religious observations the so called anti-Christian behavior would all but disappear. Unfortunately asking these Christian activists to apply the constitutional right of religious freedom equally to all Americans will undoubtedly result in more errant claims of anti-Christianity because Christian victimhood is great for business.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Feb 19, 2015 11:18 PM GMT
    ELNathB said
    FRE0 saidIt is certainly true that Christianity has, in earlier times, had its own holy wars and acts of terrorism. Instead of hiding it, it is best to acknowledge it and point out that we have changed and now strive (though often imperfectly) to follow Jesus' admonition to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    As in the Koran, it is easy to find passages in the OT that advocate behavior that is not acceptable to civilized people. Those passages should be seen as a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture and an unacceptable rationalization of the genocide committed by ancient Hebrews rather than something sanctioned by God. The idea that everything in the Bible expresses the Will of God is dangerous nonsense.



    Now, if we could just put it all together icon_idea.gif




    That was a good link you posted at the beginning of this thread. We have nothing to gain by hiding the truth. Doing so will simply open us up to being attacked as hypocrites. That is why I believe that Obama did the right thing by acknowledging the ghastly things some Christians did in the name of God, sometimes more recently than many people realize.

    It is knowledge of what was done by some Christians in the name of God that has turned some people away from Christianity and organized religion in general. However, I see their viewpoint as unbalanced since they also overlook the good things, such as establishing hospitals, schools, and charitable organizations.

    Probably the behavior if ISIS will turn many Muslims away from Islam and organized religion in general.

    It is interesting that some fundamentalists falsely assert that the U.S. was founded as a Christian country. There are many documents, in addition to personal correspondence by the Founding Fathers, that make it inescapably clear that the U.S. was founded as a secular country which protects freedom of religion. If the U.S. had actually been demonstrably founded as a Christian country, then slavery and its horrors, the treatment of the Native Americans, etc., would not incline many people to become Christians.
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    Feb 20, 2015 12:00 AM GMT
    Never confuse the essence of a faith by those who dare to pose as adherents when in all actuality they act (on purpose or in ignorance) and behave in ways that are the antithesis of the teachings of its central figure, particularly Christianity and Jesus in this case.

    When the followers of a faith bear no resemblance to the central figure of that faith, then we ought to call out this major red flag of distortion and self-centered intent—sin and pride in its blatant destructive form. They have departed from Jesus and the Faith.

    While this may hold true for Christianity, Islam, on the other hand, is incomparably more questionable as its central figure is quite controversial.
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    Feb 20, 2015 1:18 AM GMT
    Obama wants to give Islamic Terrorists jobs and social welfare programs.

    A new CBS Poll indicates that 57% of Americans now want ground troops sent to Iraq and Syria to stop ISIS:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-americans-want-to-send-ground-troops-to-fight-isis/
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 20, 2015 1:34 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidObama wants to give Islamic Terrorists jobs and social welfare programs.

    A new CBS Poll indicates that 57% of Americans now want ground troops sent to Iraq and Syria to stop ISIS:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-americans-want-to-send-ground-troops-to-fight-isis/


    2 of the greatest con jobs in human history, religion and war

    let the Holy War of 2015 begin!
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    Feb 20, 2015 2:49 AM GMT
    I would much rather be a gay man living in a predominately Christian nation than one living in a predominately Muslim one any day. And in no way in Hell would I want to be a gay man living under Sharia law.
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    Feb 20, 2015 3:46 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidObama wants to give Islamic Terrorists jobs and social welfare programs
    "Republicans want to give Christian terrorists jobs and corporate welfare programs"

    A new CBS Poll indicates that 57% of Americans now want ground troops sent to Iraq and Syria to stop ISIS:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-americans-want-to-send-ground-troops-to-fight-isis/



    Just the facts man, not stupid, Faux News emotional projection icon_rolleyes.gif

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    Feb 20, 2015 4:01 AM GMT
    NotThatOld said...

    After his Resurrection, Jesus instructed his apostles to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons, and make disciples of all nations, starting at Jerusalem (not Rome) along with further instructions for all of them to love one another, just as he loved them, so that the watching world will know that they are his disciples, and believe.

    Jesus Christ, who was the founder of the true Church (in this context, a global nation of true believers) had made it clear that love acted out in works of charity is to be the real strength of the church, and not physical conquest.


    Bravo to you, good sir.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:03 AM GMT
    Christianity IS the Roman military under Vespasian and Titus. So you say they went after Jerusalem again with Crusades? What were the Jewish Roman Wars? Jesus IS Titus who got the world to worship his deified Father, Vespasian, who art in Heaven.

    Revelation 13: 12 Another beast exercises all the authority of the first beast AND MAKES THE EARTH AND ITS INHABITANTS WORSHIP THE FIRST BEAST.

    When Vespasian left the Jewish-Roman War to his son, his son had all the authority, as military general, as the first beast, his father.

    ROME LIVES. HAIL CAESAR.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4007968
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:03 AM GMT
    The Crusades have zero to do with the Islamic Terrorism of today.Any American who does not feel we should burn these mother fuckers alive is a gutless piece of shit.I would love to sit back with a coke and some popcorn and watch these guys be burned alive with a flamethrower.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:07 AM GMT
    WickedRyan saidThe Crusades have zero to do with the Islamic Terrorism of today.Any American who does not feel we should burn these mother fuckers alive is a gutless piece of shit.I would love to sit back with a coke and some popcorn and watch these guys be burned alive with a flamethrower.


    Take your guts, get off the couch, join the military, be the first to sign up to go fight ISIS. You want to sit back and watch people burned alive with a flamethrower.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:09 AM GMT
    Didn't the Hawks say not to leave Iraq? Now you want to destroy what grew up in your absence.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:18 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    WickedRyan saidThe Crusades have zero to do with the Islamic Terrorism of today.Any American who does not feel we should burn these mother fuckers alive is a gutless piece of shit.I would love to sit back with a coke and some popcorn and watch these guys be burned alive with a flamethrower.


    Take your guts, get off the couch, join the military.


    What is going to happen after ISIS is defeated?

    A. Another ISIS is born
    B. Nation building since ISIS proved we cannot pull out of Iraq, Mission Accomplished

    At some point Syria will need some sort of State with diplomatic recognition as opposed to no more than recognition as terrorists in need of air strikes.

    It is the expansionism of ISIS that got them into trouble. Maybe if they didn't go into Iraq they would have had more diplomatic cards to play.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:24 AM GMT
    ISIS has bred more "Palestinians." The boys they have recruited will NEVER forget the victims of air strikes.

    You want to breed more hatred of the West? Keep escalating the violence. Ramp it up.
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    Feb 20, 2015 5:26 AM GMT
    Now, we CAN stand down diplomacy and feed our congressional-military-industrial-complex.

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    Feb 20, 2015 5:27 AM GMT
    WickedRyan saidThe Crusades have zero to do with the Islamic Terrorism of today.Any American who does not feel we should burn these mother fuckers alive is a gutless piece of shit.I would love to sit back with a coke and some popcorn and watch these guys be burned alive with a flamethrower.


    Watch?! I wouldn't mind wielding the flame thrower!

    These jackasses comparing the Crusades to modern Islamic terrorist don't realize their gay butt fuckin' asses will be the first to suffer death under the regime of those maniacal fanatics and would long for the days when they were "oppressed" by the Christians.

    Boo boo boo the meanie Christians call me intrinsically disordered. Holy fuckin' shit this wack job wielding the Koran wants to set me on fire. I'll gladly choose the former.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 20, 2015 5:38 AM GMT
    NotThatOld saidThe Crusaders were of the Roman Catholic Church who indeed fought wars against both Jews and Muslims alike.

    But the Catholic Church as we know it today was not founded on Jesus Christ or his apostles, as it itself claims. Rather it was founded after Emperor Constantine had received an occult vision before defeating a rival emperor in AD 313 and merging the Church to the State with himself as Pontiff, and with it, the right be become the Bishop of Rome, and of all the churches in his Empire.

    After his Resurrection, Jesus instructed his apostles to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons, and make disciples of all nations, starting at Jerusalem (not Rome) along with further instructions for all of them to love one another, just as he loved them, so that the watching world will know that they are his disciples, and believe.

    Jesus Christ, who was the founder of the true Church (in this context, a global nation of true believers) had made it clear that love acted out in works of charity is to be the real strength of the church, and not physical conquest.


    For a clean record, and I say this as a Catholic, according to Jesus himself (in the Gospels) the greatest commandment is to love God (the father) above all else, and the second great commandment is to love thy neighbor as yourself. The two are inextricably interrelated so as to be one and the same once you mediate on it and accept either commandment as true.

    Regarding the rest of your post, I make no comment or judgment one way or the other.