Is Beyoncé the most overrated musician of all time?

  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Feb 20, 2015 4:55 AM GMT
    I'm so tired of hearing about this woman. For twenty years now we've been force-fed her watered down R&B-lite pap, but the Beyoncé worship is really starting to get fucking annoying.

    Beyoncé has made one decent record and only one truly great song and yet she is heralded as the greatest talent alive. I don't see it. She's a good singer, too overly technical and not enough genuine emotion for me, but good, I just don't see how popping one's pussy onstage and executing a perfect dance step entitles one to the rep she has.

    I mean, the woman has never written or composed a song, and doesn't play any instruments.

    And now with the untouched photos. Enough already!

    Beyoncé Backlash is coming!
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 20, 2015 5:10 AM GMT
    @Mulignan

    I'm going to be nice since you're on both of my teams (gay and black). So I'll skip over you tearing down a strong black feminist and gay rights advocate to simply say this:

    (1). "Overrated." I'm assuming that, despite your post, you will ADMIT that Beyonce is good--to a certain extent.

    (2). As such, the question becomes whether or not her "Fame" is in proportion to her accomplishments and talent.

    (3). She has a LOT of fame. She has a LOT of talent. Your question treads in the gray zone of trying to quantify her precise level of talent with her precise level of fame. Both of those quantifications are a fools errand. So let's not throw around "Beyonce is great because of XYZ" versus "Beyonce is worshiped because of ABC coverage and accolades."

    (4). Fundamentally, the easiest way to answer your question, in my mind, is to look at similarly situated individuals.

    Elvis, the King of Rock and Roll. His fame has preceded him long past his death. Decades. He's still holding records for how many records old and revenue earned, etc. Was he THAT talented? Well he was hot, and could strum a guitar, and brother could move. But decades after his death, the worship? The Elvis imitator industry that is worth MILLIONS? I don't know. He was not Michael Jackson. In my book, he is GREAT, but slightly overrated.


    The Beatles. I think they deserve everything, so they are no overrated in my book.

    Madonna. I think she deserves the amount of notoriety she receives. Not overrated.

    One Direction. Decent music, cute boys, but overrated. The level of worship is not commensurate with their talent, but a long shot.

    To frame the debate, I would argue MUSE is UNDERRATED, i.e., their fame is not commensurate with their level of (amazing) talent. They've been rated the #1 live show for a reason. They're not the best act in the history of music, but they deserve WAY more "rate" than what they're being given and historically have had.

    So to answer your question, to me, Beyonce is NOT the most overrated artist in history. Elvis easily takes that cake. In fact, I'd argue Beyonce is not overrated at all. I believe her "Rating" is on par with her talent and how much good she's caused in the world.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Feb 20, 2015 5:57 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said@Mulignan

    I'm going to be nice since you're on both of my teams (gay and black). So I'll skip over you tearing down a strong black feminist and gay rights advocate to simply say this:

    (1). "Overrated." I'm assuming that, despite your post, you will ADMIT that Beyonce is good--to a certain extent.

    (2). As such, the question becomes whether or not her "Fame" is in proportion to her accomplishments and talent.

    (3). She has a LOT of fame. She has a LOT of talent. Your question treads in the gray zone of trying to quantify her precise level of talent with her precise level of fame. Both of those quantifications are a fools errand. So let's not throw around "Beyonce is great because of XYZ" versus "Beyonce is worshiped because of ABC coverage and accolades."

    (4). Fundamentally, the easiest way to answer your question, in my mind, is to look at similarly situated individuals.

    Elvis, the King of Rock and Roll. His fame has preceded him long past his death. Decades. He's still holding records for how many records old and revenue earned, etc. Was he THAT talented? Well he was hot, and could strum a guitar, and brother could move. But decades after his death, the worship? The Elvis imitator industry that is worth MILLIONS? I don't know. He was not Michael Jackson. In my book, he is GREAT, but slightly overrated.


    The Beatles. I think they deserve everything, so they are no overrated in my book.

    Madonna. I think she deserves the amount of notoriety she receives. Not overrated.

    One Direction. Decent music, cute boys, but overrated. The level of worship is not commensurate with their talent, but a long shot.

    To frame the debate, I would argue MUSE is UNDERRATED, i.e., their fame is not commensurate with their level of (amazing) talent. They've been rated the #1 live show for a reason. They're not the best act in the history of music, but they deserve WAY more "rate" than what they're being given and historically have had.

    So to answer your question, to me, Beyonce is NOT the most overrated artist in history. Elvis easily takes that cake. In fact, I'd argue Beyonce is not overrated at all. I believe her "Rating" is on par with her talent and how much good she's caused in the world.


    I'm very hesitant to "tear down" any powerful black figure because I realize how hard it must have been to get where they are. However, I believe Beyoncé is overrated because her music is mostly forgettable (except for 4 and the Self Titled album) and she hasn't done anything innovative musically or visually. You can't compare her to legends like Madonna, who created the template for the modern female pop star, and Elvis, who brought rock n roll to the mainstream. Also she has yet to reach that level of international stardom, in my opinion.

    Also, in what world is Beyoncé a feminist (and especially) a gay rights activist? Beyoncé has spoken out for gay rights maybe once and it was due to pressure from the gay marriage movement. A "strong black feminist" would be someone like bell hooks, not a pop singer who sings about being subservient to her man and telling said man to "put a ring on IT."
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 20, 2015 6:12 AM GMT
    @Mulignan

    Beyonce is a feminist, and her lyrics of "should have put a ring on it" are a CREDIT to that. She's not a gold digging woman out for the ring's value. She's saying, "if you loved me, you should have committed to me, in our present day and age that entails you putting a ring--of whatever value--on it." She's not saying "you should have put a 80K ring on it, this 4K ring is eww gross." She was looking for COMMITMENT, not the pawn value of the ring. You're missing the point, in my opinion.

    She has tweeted her support for gay marriage, and confirmed it with Rolling Stone. Not as a "well my personal opinion is X, but I officially state Y," scheme, but unequivocally "I'm for gay marriage." I don't know what more you want. I never said she was equal or better than Madonna or Lady Gaga with respect to the gay marriage issue. She's clearly "on board" though, and that's more than I can say for MOST current artists who either denounce us (looking to country music here) or decline comment "politely" so as to not alienate fans.

    Hate on Bey as much as you want, but she's clearly a feminist, and clearly a gay right's advocate. And to circle back to the OP, I still am unpersuaded that she's "overrated." She deserves everything she has.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 20, 2015 7:21 AM GMT
    She would be jack squat without Jay-Z. He made her and can break her. I don't mind her, but she is not the end all be all to the music industry… Sorry… icon_twisted.gif
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 20, 2015 7:38 AM GMT
    Here's some facts that came out right after the Grammys when it was suggested by some idiot that Beck should have given his award to Beyonce because in his opinion she's more of an artist than Beck.


    Number of individuals credited on the album (excluding the artist):
    Beyonce: 74
    Beck on Morning Phase: 15

    Number of Producers:
    Beyonce: 16
    Beck on Morning Phase: 1

    And the most revealing.....
    Number of instruments (not vocals) performed by the artist on the album
    Beyonce: 0
    Beck on Morning Phase: 15

    Beyonce has a voice, perky tits and nice fake hair. That's it. She will most likely never be known for writing great lyrics, musical arrangements or playing any instrument. Take away the looks and the hype and she'd be singing backup on the next tour for a Commodores tribute act running the chicken bone circuit nightclubs.

    http://imgur.com/gallery/AxppoWI
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Feb 20, 2015 8:07 AM GMT
    What kills me about Beyoncé is that there are so many artists with 10x the talent she has that get barely any exposure. Beyoncé makes mediocre records and sells millions and gets an obligatory Grammy just for being Beyoncé (and having the capital and promo team to back it up). It's not fair to other artists. Does Beyoncé deserve 20 Grammy awards? Hell no. There are so many R&B artists over the years that have been shunned in favor of giving Beyoncé yet ANOTHER obligatory Grammy award. They miss out on the sales, exposure, and career boost that such an accolade would bring, despite at times being nominated for much better material.

    Is it fair that one black artist should have such a monopoly? Why does the black community, and the larger music buying community, only support one black musician to the complete exclusion of all others?

    Janelle Monae is a great example, a better writer, dancer, performer, and arguably singer than Beyoncé who even co-produces her own albums. She has released two acclaimed albums and one EP so far. Total sales: 400,000 combined. 0 Grammy's.

    This is why I was glad when Beyoncé (album) lost Album of the Year to Beck's Morning Phase. It restores faith in the music industry, in the belief that many artists should be celebrated not just the popular few, and that the artistry and sheer merit of musicianship should be awarded, not gimmickry and hype.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Feb 20, 2015 9:40 AM GMT
    1+

    We're on the same team about it, Mulligan.

    My music tastes aren't by genres or eras but mostly based on appreciation of originality, talent and sometimes pure genius.

    It has always pissed me off to see amazing talents passed over by the music industry's cookie cutter success formulas for artists and songs.

    Here's a great song about what's wrong with most "popular" music generated by the industry itself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCVGpvzcHko



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 20, 2015 9:50 AM GMT
    With so many amazing and brilliant black artists, musicians, song writers, why is Beyonce held up as a great talent? She is a manufactured product, without all that production she is mediocre at best.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 20, 2015 9:56 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said@Mulignan

    Beyonce is a feminist, and her lyrics of "should have put a ring on it" are a CREDIT to that. She's not a gold digging woman out for the ring's value. She's saying, "if you loved me, you should have committed to me, in our present day and age that entails you putting a ring--of whatever value--on it." She's not saying "you should have put a 80K ring on it, this 4K ring is eww gross." She was looking for COMMITMENT, not the pawn value of the ring. You're missing the point, in my opinion.

    She has tweeted her support for gay marriage, and confirmed it with Rolling Stone. Not as a "well my personal opinion is X, but I officially state Y," scheme, but unequivocally "I'm for gay marriage." I don't know what more you want. I never said she was equal or better than Madonna or Lady Gaga with respect to the gay marriage issue. She's clearly "on board" though, and that's more than I can say for MOST current artists who either denounce us (looking to country music here) or decline comment "politely" so as to not alienate fans.

    Hate on Bey as much as you want, but she's clearly a feminist, and clearly a gay right's advocate. And to circle back to the OP, I still am unpersuaded that she's "overrated." She deserves everything she has.


    She basically says what her producers and the record company think her audience wants to hear. If any of these thought her statements would hurt her popularity, she would not be saying a thing. She is a commodity and a lot of people rely on her for their mercs and rolexes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 20, 2015 12:10 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidA thread devoted to trashing Beyoncé?

    Man, what is your problem?

    If you had made this thread about Britney Spears then I would back you up 100%.

    But Beyoncé?

    Hell2duhnoooo......


    Agreed!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 20, 2015 5:05 PM GMT
    Most pop artists are overrated in my book. All I know is I don't care for her music, but if it makes other people happy I'm all for her.

    Her sister Solange lives a couple of blocks from me and when Beyonce comes to visit I have trouble getting my coffee on the corner because they love to go there. The minute people see her walking in there, suddenly everyone needs a cup of coffee. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 20, 2015 8:10 PM GMT
    Nobody ever said she wasn't a "commodity." All major music acts are, without exception. They all have handlers, managers, agents, press, lawyers, etc. Don't be ignorant and blame her for having handlers as if she's the first.

    I'm simply saying she's pretty awesome in the music she makes, it's relatability, and what she 'stands' for--even if some of the statements are prepared for her. In her heart, if you've listened to her interviews, you know she is very PRO gay. So go to heck for persecuting an ally of ours. She held a bullied gay kid on stage and cried as she sang to him. I'm not saying it wasn't "staged" in a sense, but I saw those tears, and you can't fake that. She's done the same for children with cancer, foster kids, and homeless children.

    Stop crucifying her. She's on our team, idiots.

    tumblr_nk08zjJufM1r7m90oo2_400.gif
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Feb 20, 2015 8:30 PM GMT
    she's just another packaged singer, she's not even up there with Norah Jones or Nina Simone or Debbie Harry
  • DJEsco_

    Posts: 80

    Feb 20, 2015 10:19 PM GMT
    My boyfriend is obsessed with this woman. I always disliked her music. Yes I admit she jas a great voice but that is all. This whole Beyhive group is ridiculous to me. People get seriously offended when you talk shit about her as if she was their mother. Yeah congrats on her success but I will be fine without hearing another 'Yonce' record again.

    Except Baby Boy. But thats because Im down with Sean Paul.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 20, 2015 10:34 PM GMT
    tumblr_nj4f5yaw6J1tdvlvso2_400.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 12:25 AM GMT
    I love "If I were a Boy", Reba also does it.

    When any "Star" makes it there are always accusations of overrated.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 6:11 AM GMT
    there's these black ladies i love -

    Dawn Richard - she used to be in this c grade girl band Danity Kane but her solo albums are nothing to that girl group..i love her mixture of experimental electronic , progressive pop and rnb vocals with so much unconventional arrangements.

    FKA twigs - she got famed currently as twilight (worst movie of the 21st century) actor Robert Pattinson girlfriend but her songs are well known before that romance. Take 90's rnb vocals, mix it with the weirdest experimental sounnd....you got her. Oh, this girl CAN dance..her live shows are surreal.


    SZA - airy rnb vocals mixed with soothing and unconventional music mostly. Her songs are full of feels.mmm


    also worth mentioning..though not a huge fan of them - Tinashe , Jhene Aiko , Willow Smith
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 10:54 AM GMT
    Svnw688 saidNobody ever said she wasn't a "commodity." All major music acts are, without exception. They all have handlers, managers, agents, press, lawyers, etc. Don't be ignorant and blame her for having handlers as if she's the first.

    I'm simply saying she's pretty awesome in the music she makes, it's relatability, and what she 'stands' for--even if some of the statements are prepared for her. In her heart, if you've listened to her interviews, you know she is very PRO gay. So go to heck for persecuting an ally of ours. She held a bullied gay kid on stage and cried as she sang to him. I'm not saying it wasn't "staged" in a sense, but I saw those tears, and you can't fake that. She's done the same for children with cancer, foster kids, and homeless children.

    Stop crucifying her. She's on our team, idiots.

    tumblr_nk08zjJufM1r7m90oo2_400.gif


    You know I am sure she means well. Of course you can fake tears and cry on cue, that is what any good actor can do! She was probably really moved, cause I doubt she is that good of an actor. But good intentions or supporting a particular cause does not make her a good artist. Maybe all very popular performers have handlers, and yes things have changed for the worse in the music industry, but some have genuine extraordinary musical talent and ability. Some have much less ability, but they have looks and a willingness to be manipulated and exploited to make a lot of people rich.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 3:03 PM GMT
    I haven't seen her play an instrument so I don't know if she's truly a musician. She's no worse than any other pop icon out there. And since I do not follow pop music I rarely give her a passing thought; although, I once had a poster of her and her banging body in a bathing suit on my refrigerator.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
    Facts speak for themselves; I know her French isn't the best BUT everyone should at least watch the first video -- it shows how beautiful and earthy her tone is.



















  • Buddha

    Posts: 1767

    Feb 21, 2015 6:31 PM GMT
    yes

    edit: like seriously, she has a good generic voice, it's just her fans that elevate to her some kind of deity-status. I'd expect that if someone talked about Elliott Smith, not someone with her mediocre songs.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Feb 21, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidNobody ever said she wasn't a "commodity." All major music acts are, without exception. They all have handlers, managers, agents, press, lawyers, etc. Don't be ignorant and blame her for having handlers as if she's the first.

    I'm simply saying she's pretty awesome in the music she makes, it's relatability, and what she 'stands' for--even if some of the statements are prepared for her. In her heart, if you've listened to her interviews, you know she is very PRO gay. So go to heck for persecuting an ally of ours. She held a bullied gay kid on stage and cried as she sang to him. I'm not saying it wasn't "staged" in a sense, but I saw those tears, and you can't fake that. She's done the same for children with cancer, foster kids, and homeless children.

    Stop crucifying her. She's on our team, idiots.

    tumblr_nk08zjJufM1r7m90oo2_400.gif


    We are talking about musical merit here, not her political pandering. And either way, who cares if she "supports" gay rights? Not everything has to circle back to gay rights. And anyway, her sudden support of gay people is more about protecting her brand than anything, with 75% of fanbase being composed of effeminate black gay men.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 7:58 PM GMT
    Do you realize how much work it takes to be relevant in this industry now -- it is NOT like the Motown days.

    Look at Lady Gaga and Adele; both are talented, but they don't have that Beyoncé drive... I respect artists who want to take time in order to be inspired (I'd do the same thing), BUT Beyoncé has been able to remain relevant without ever having to lower her standards or compromising herself/values.

    My point is she puts in the work to be the ALPHA PERFORMER, and she has enough talent, likability, and star appeal to support what she desires...

    Not all artists want that kind of recognition -- some ppl play football for fun and others play to win the Super Bowl.

    Stop hating on fans who admire her... Some of you gays are fu$king bigots -- you want equality but you criticize people who are Catholic and worship Jesus; then most of you eliminate people over stupid physical traits; and you throw anyone under the bus who isn't "in vogue"... I'm sick of you nasty judgmental queens. Go f$ck yourselves while your mother gives me a BJ icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 21, 2015 8:15 PM GMT
    I used to like her in the beginning, then I don't know. I stopped liking her and even though I think she's a great singer. Most or all of her songs like Sound the same, the RB/POP diva vibes. I like her debut album Dangerously in Love the most. Now lately, I'm more into Pop, Alternative, rock, Brit bands. I still listen to RB but more like oldies stuff Etta James, Diana Ross.