Gay because we are a little more girl than guy?

  • Mulligan108

    Posts: 32

    Feb 25, 2015 5:22 PM GMT
    So many people, including some researchers, still believe that Gay Guys are Gay because we are more girl than guy - because something made us a little more feminine and that caused us to be attracted to men, not women. Or that we are Gay because we received more estrogen than testosterone in the womb. Or that our Mother's womb sensed another male coming and tried to make it a female to help preserve the species! And so on.

    Even LeVay and other scientists and researchers keep pointing to things that they say made gay guys gay because they made us a little more feminine. Or that we have this and that biological or genetic similarity to women. (I thought the epigenetic studies just pointed to some one "switch" that got toggled a different way for us. That I like.)

    I'm not talking feminine or masculine "acting" here. That's a whole other debate. Just what makes a gay guy gay - attracted to men, not women. I know it's not known and may never be pinned down, but whatever it is, do you think it is a feminine factor? Do you think or feel that we are gay because we have a little more, (or a lot more) feminine in us than straight guys? Did we get a little more, (or a lot more) of something feminine in the womb or in the DNA than straight guys? Or was it just some one switch for sexual preference that for gays was programmed or toggled differently.

    I just feel like I have a different sexual preference, but I don’t feel like I have this preference for men because I’m a little more woman than a straight man.
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    Feb 25, 2015 6:51 PM GMT
    This has always been a fascinating issue for me, and many other gay men I imagine. I tend towards the evolutionary rationale: there's something good for the species in producing a few same-sexers every now and then. Exactly why - more hunters/gatherers than consumers, more people around to guard the camp and help raise the kids - is unknown, but given our geneological persistence, I think that's where a lot of the answer lies.
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    Feb 25, 2015 6:56 PM GMT
    all the 'born gay' studies I've read seem to be based on proving glb people are kinda mentally intersex. the thing I don't get is if there really is some type of hormonal malfunction, why is sexuality the only thing that seems to be affected? like if these studies also proved that gay men have more breast tissue than straight men and have smaller penises that bleed once a month, then maybe the 'gay men are more like straight women' theory would make more sense.

    does anyone know where bisexuality falls in these studies? is the bisexual male brain closer to the hetero male than the gay male, or have they not bothered with that yet?
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    Feb 25, 2015 7:25 PM GMT
    Since coming around to fully accepting myself, I really don't care the reason. I don't need a reason. I've been gay all my life and make no apologies for it. If science discovers a reason, in their minds, the hetero world will "know" we are defective rather than just think it. Then we are just a step away from science trying to find a "cure," further reinforcing the idea that we are a disorder that needs fixing rather than a normalcy on the broad spectrum of human sexuality.

    Whether a choice are not, people should be free to express their sexuality with another consenting adult(s) as they see fit.

    We have been fighting religion on its stance on homosexuality for decades. Are we going to have to fight "science" too?
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    Feb 25, 2015 7:44 PM GMT
    When will these guys give up. There's no one definition to being gay. Each person is different and so there are many reasons why someone would end up gay. It may be because you have a bit of feminine genes in you or you decided somewhere in your life that you liked men or that you like both men or woman. There are countless reasons and causes for these reasons but either way being gay and accepting it is up to you.
  • buddycat

    Posts: 1874

    Feb 25, 2015 8:02 PM GMT
    I am sure that some gay men are inter-sexed or have some traits or attitudes of the opposite sex. That is also true of straight men, especially when they couple with a woman. It is natures way of making men have more in common with women. There are also masculine gay men but I am sure they aren't the ones wearing their masculinity on their sleeve. The ones that parade around proclaiming how masculine they are probably are just trying to prove themselves but are really more inter-sexed.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1030

    Feb 25, 2015 8:30 PM GMT
    Like others have said, there's no one answer. Nobody can look at the population here on RJ and conclude that all gays are alike. So you think you're more "womanly" than str8 guys? Fine, but don't assume that's how it is for all of us.

    The researchers who come up with these formulaic "answers" are only playing off a bullshit stereotype that says gay guys are more feminine than str8 guys by nature. It does nothing to explain the existence of "tops", or the fact that in certain civilizations (ancient Greece, for example) there were entire populations who practiced bisexuality.

    The ancient Greeks believed guys who fucked guys were more manly than guys who fucked women.
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    Feb 25, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
    Or more likely:

    By Andrew Moseman, June 18, 2008 Camperio-Ciani and his team now say male homosexuality is an example of sexually antagonistic selection—meaning a trait that gives one of the sexes a reproductive advantage diminishes the reproductive advantages of the other. This shows up all the time in the animal kingdom—for instance, fruit fly seminal fluid makes females lose interest in mating with other males, and actually shortens their lives. Most of the time it’s males taking the advantage, but in this case the researchers say it’s vice versa: Homosexuality means men will probably have fewer children, but their female relatives will have more, keeping homosexuality in the gene pool.


    Are Highly Fertile Women More Likely to Have Gay Sons?
    http://tinyurl.com/q655dyu
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    Feb 25, 2015 11:31 PM GMT
    Emperor Obama recently announced that being gay is a "Lifestyle Choice":



    Now that Obama no longer needs the gay vote, he says what he really believes.
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    Feb 26, 2015 12:03 AM GMT
    I think being attracted to another butch man IS kinda masculine. Maybe more masculine that being attracted to a feminine woman. Think about it.
  • Beeftastic

    Posts: 1747

    Feb 26, 2015 12:22 AM GMT
    Anyone whose spent time with an aggressive power bottom knows this isn't true lol.
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    Feb 26, 2015 1:15 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidEmperor Obama recently announced that being gay is a "Lifestyle Choice":

    Word twister is nothing more than word twisting out of typical sore looser hatred. Bless yer heart...icon_rolleyes.gif
    Find me a past Republican President that has treated you with this much respect as a gay man as our current President.
    Not Emperor, but President.
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    Feb 26, 2015 1:35 AM GMT
    I have known a number of straight guys that are more feminine than me or gay men I know. I don't think it's that simple.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:10 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidEmperor Obama recently announced that being gay is a "Lifestyle Choice":

    Now that Obama no longer needs the gay vote, he says what he really believes.


    Is this like the 15th time you've posted this? You're such a troll.
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    Feb 26, 2015 5:09 AM GMT
    It's a brain thing!!

    Not much to do with masculinity or machismo.

    I am a guy that's different that's all.

    I do things that many str8 men don't do......however, it's all changing......


    I like being different, smarter and stand out from a crowd. Win-Win deal in my book.....
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    Feb 26, 2015 5:48 AM GMT
    The whole biology of sexuality is so complex that I think there are bound to be variations in the mental and emotional processes of the brain, just as there are so many variations in physical biology.

    That is why none of us fits neatly into a box. We are who we are, and we celebrate our diversity. I don't understand how a transgender person feels anymore than a straight person understands how I - as a 100% gay man - feels inside.

    But that doesn't make their reality any less valid than my reality.

    This article is a really interesting read with regards to the complex development of fetal sexuality:

    https://theskepticaldad.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/do-all-babies-start-off-female/

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    Feb 26, 2015 6:40 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    mx5guynj saidEmperor Obama recently announced that being gay is a "Lifestyle Choice":

    Now that Obama no longer needs the gay vote, he says what he really believes.

    Is this like the 15th time you've posted this? You're such a troll.

    +1

    These Obama-hating obsessives all behave the same, it's their mission here. Most of us realize they post lies here to upset and disrupt the site. They're sadly delusional if they think they're actually persuading gay men to withdraw their support from the only President, and the only US political party, that have ever advanced gay interests and gay civil rights, however haltingly and unevenly.

    Far better than the Republicans who are officially opposed to gay civil rights (aka "special rights" in their book), and who want to restore laws making gay sex a punishable crime.
  • cmdrkoenig67

    Posts: 163

    Feb 26, 2015 3:26 PM GMT
    Check out the 2008 Swedish study on "the gay brain". The study used MRI and CT scans of the study subjects' brains.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain_2.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/22/AR2008062201994.html

    Just because we may have similarities to straight female brain structures, it doesn't mean we'd be feminine, have breasts like women or would have periods.
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:45 PM GMT
    JuanPablomv89 said
    Obama is an ass hope fat ass Hilary Clinton along with her horse face daughter give up

    Thanks for your usual scholarly political analysis, even dragging the Clintons' blameless daughter through the mud as you routinely do. No wonder Mexico is so fucked up and falling apart. icon_razz.gif
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:55 PM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor said
    mx5guynj saidEmperor Obama recently announced that being gay is a "Lifestyle Choice":

    Word twister is nothing more than word twisting out of typical sore looser hatred. Bless yer heart...icon_rolleyes.gif
    Find me a past Republican President that has treated you with this much respect as a gay man as our current President.
    Not Emperor, but President.

    +1

    What you'll find instead is Republicans who want to criminalize gays, and keep us second-class citizens with reduced legal & civil rights. But hey, Republicans are good for the one-percenters in the economy, right? We can always get a job polishing their cars or cleaning their yachts, and benefit from the trickle-down effect of the money tips they leave us. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 26, 2015 4:40 PM GMT
    easy for many people to see gender and or sexuality as a binary difference. but there is no completely gay or straight just as there is no completely male or female gender. Clinically thinking the range of gender identity is nearly boundless and effects us in every way chemically and physically. So why should someone have some one or more major internal differences and maybe that difference does not correspond to any outward physical ramification.

    Avoid reducing people to their most basic body parts and most basic primitive emotions.

  • yyc_kiddo

    Posts: 14

    Feb 26, 2015 6:13 PM GMT
    The problem I believe here is, we often consider our gender identity and sexual orientation reflexive to each other.
    While many of us cautiously know that it is not necessarily always true, like transgendered gay people, there are not too many occasions that the majority of the population gets to realized that in their daily lives. Hence this misconception still has got a loud voice to appeal itself.

    Secondly, I think we need to re-examine the definition of masculinity/femininity from the anthropological stand point; Some human traits that are considered masculine in one culture can be easily perceived rather feminine in another. We can't forget that. (ie. Some cultures believe women should be working outside and men should be homemaking.)

    If the masculinity/femininity balance is only us gay/bi guys question alone along with our sexual orientation, why do you think we have so many advocative ads, articles, magazines and everything that promote certain types of male/female figures and lifestyles out there? If whatever factor that determines our sexual orientation so significantly is ever existent at the biological level to determine our masculinity/femininity permanently, I don't think there would be any market to promote that because it would certainly be already self-sufficient; However, the reality is quite opposite.

    Also, there is a clear difference between "How we feel" and "How we think": We all feel emotions, and most likely those are universal no matter what gender you identify yourself as. It's a matter of how to translate those psychological motives into our thinking process, and I think that's where our biases step in that affect our superficial demeanor within the cultural context that we are expressing ourselves in.

    We are who we are. Whatever traits and qualities we were born with exist as they are, as well.
    WE HUMAN BEINGS are the one who's trying to contextualize them in the name of cultures/traditions/religions/science, or anything else you can think of.
    I think it is more productive to ask WHY WE ARE so intrigued to probe into this subject, rather than the traits/factors we carry in our bag themselves.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    Feb 27, 2015 5:57 AM GMT
    As someone who is a bit androgynous in personality, this is kind of an interesting question but still... Maybe some things are best left untouched. No matter what, Gay is gay and is still a part of the world. It's not going to disappear.

    Me personally, I may come off more feminine than your average straight guy. I'm not afraid to express my emotions (when it's appropriate), I have an androgynous look, and my experiences talking to straight men, I definitely do feel I don't have the same thinking pattern as them. A lot of straight men have boundaries and quotas of how they should be where as I, like to do what I like and feel everyone should be able to as well.

    But times are changing and now even straight men are doing things that seemed "gay" or "taboo" so no, I don't think it's because gay men are born more "female". I think every guy, gay, straight, or bisexual has the power to be who they want to be. It's just that in the straight world, there are certain expectations that are expected of them to follow.
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    Feb 27, 2015 8:54 PM GMT
    I think it's important to separate sexual orientation from Gender Identity (masculine vs feminine).

    I think that most Gay men have a masculine Gender Identity, but it's less obvious since they don't stand out like a Gay man with a more feminine identity.

    most Gay men are no less masculine then most straight men. the primary difference is the sexual orientation.
  • Mulligan108

    Posts: 32

    Feb 28, 2015 3:12 PM GMT
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I get the gender vs sexual preference thing. Two different things. There are gays and straights at all points along the gender continuum line - from macho men to very effeminate men - and they can be gay or straight at any point on that line. And there are men (gay and straight) at all points along the sexual preference continuum line - from exclusively straight to exclusively gay.

    I wasn't doubting that. I was just focusing on the cause of homosexuality and the fact that many folks, including some researchers are still saying and believing that gay men are gay because we may be a little or a lot more feminine than the average straight guy. The belief seems to be that even if there are some very effeminate straight men, the % of effeminate gay men is much greater and therefore, that femininity must be what causes homosexuality. I don't buy this. I was just pointing out that the belief is still very strong out there. Many here feel the existence of macho gay men disproves this theory.

    I suppose what causes us to be gay is not important, but it is fascinating and many of us are just naturally curious.

    I believe we just have one little, but significant same-sex attraction switch that even very feminine straight guys don't have. Or, it's too complicated and there are too many factors with Nature and Nurture to ever figure it out exactly.