"Ugly" or "Unhealthy": Is the LGBT community secretly fat-shaming?

  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 26, 2015 1:02 AM GMT
    At lunch today I met up with two gay friends. One guy had been working in Japan since before 2011's tsunami, and hadn't seen us. My other friend is admittedly overweight, but not obese or gross.

    So my thin friend started in to my friend who'd gotten overweight: "Wow you really put on the pounds" (kind of jokingly), "You should really watch your diet," "what's your exercise plan?" Up until this point, I was on my thin friend's side, but as he continued I realized that his "I'm worried about your health, not how you look" line might not be genuine as he kept on throughout lunch, even at one point saying the larger guy shouldn't order dessert. We all got dessert and I steered the convo onto nicer things, but it got me to thinking.

    Have I been fooling myself. Do I have a shallow and superficial 'issue' with fat people that I mask as (fake) concern for their health?

    Is it primarily masked and cloaked fat shaming? Or genuine concern for their health?
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:03 AM GMT
    I don't like looking at fat people.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:19 AM GMT
    From my observations of being around overweight people, and myself (I used to weigh 240, now I'm down to 185), I'm more bothered about overweight people being self-indulgent and not really caring (about their health/body). In a way it's not a lot different than smoking. I used to smoke back in my 20s. Smoking is relaxing and enjoyable. In both cases it's easier to not think about what you're doing to yourself and just enjoy things, but they happen to be damaging.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:24 AM GMT
    Part of the community does that quite openly, the lower the body fat % the better, but we also have the Bears where some extra pounds don't matter. As long as you're hairy...
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 26, 2015 2:31 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidFrom my observations of being around overweight people, and myself (I used to weigh 240, now I'm down to 185), I'm more bothered about overweight people being self-indulgent and not really caring (about their health/body). In a way it's not a lot different than smoking. I used to smoke back in my 20s. Smoking is relaxing and enjoyable. In both cases it's easier to not think about what you're doing to yourself and just enjoy things, but they happen to be damaging.


    Fair enough. I'd only add that I think it's harder to deal with the "demon" of food than the "demon" of smokes.

    (1). You MUST eat to live.

    (2). EVERY restaurant offers food.

    (3). Advertisements for food are CONSTANT.

    Conversely, you don't have to smoke to live, not every establishment allows smoking (I'm aware more establishments USED to, but still, it wasn't the same, nobody smoked in church, but church breakfasts or lunches are ubiquitous, etc.), and since the 1990s you cannot advertise cigarettes on TV and most of Hollywood self-regulates and keeps smoking to a minimum or nil (except for 'indie' films where it's apparently a right of passage to have a character light up, I think even Jessica Lange has smoked on EVERY season of American Horror Story).

    I completely get your larger point, addiction and complacency. But I only mean to say I think food is tougher to control than smoking. DISCLOSURE: I say this as a former heavy smoker who, regrettably, still smokes when he drinks.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:44 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidFrom my observations of being around overweight people, and myself (I used to weigh 240, now I'm down to 185), I'm more bothered about overweight people being self-indulgent and not really caring (about their health/body). In a way it's not a lot different than smoking. I used to smoke back in my 20s. Smoking is relaxing and enjoyable. In both cases it's easier to not think about what you're doing to yourself and just enjoy things, but they happen to be damaging.


    AMEN. THIS is my opinion.

    As much as the gay community seems superficial, I say it's not as superficial as it seems. I'd say there's much more gay people out there that just don't give a fuck about their health. They smoke, they don't exercise....and rather spend all day at a bar instead of in the gym.

    I have a friend who's always joking about how fat he's getting (he actually used to be in shape, then got fat, and recently lost weight), but everytime I go on facebook he's talking about how great a day it is to GO TO LUNCH, instead of go for a run. I almost wanted to post, everytime I look around you're talking about eating instead of trying to fucking lose weight!

    I always say, there's no reason to be fat unless you're a woman who's given birth before, or you had some sort of exercise prohibiting injury. If you look at depictions of men in the bible or ancient times, no one was fat except those of royalty who were fat as a status symbol. If you're an average man who's fat, you're just not handling your business. But the only sympathy is the America lifestyle entices them to get fat, but then condemns them when they do.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:56 AM GMT
    There is a huge distinction between being a little over-weight and obese.

    The former just happens to some people because of stress, scheduling, temporarily poor habits or genetics. It can rather easily be addressed and corrected.

    The latter is much deeper and more difficult to accept because it is often indicative of a much more disturbed way of living. Food can be like a drug and equally addictive. Seeing a morbidly obese person abuse themselves is akin to watching a raging alcoholic walk into a bar or a junkie shoot up.

    At best, it often indicates a serious medical condition that is wildly out of control and potentially deadly.

    As far as vanity goes, We are all visual creatures but that doesn't necessarily translate to cruel.

    In the OP's example, the "thin friend" doesn't come across as much of a true friend and at the very least sounds as if he were grossly inappropriate to someone who may need support and encouragement rather than caustic cracks and comments throughout lunch.

    I am sure it was well-intended but the ultimate outcome was three uncomfortable people sitting thru dessert.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:59 AM GMT
    Cash saidThere is a huge distinction between being a little over-weight and obese.


    And let's not forget about slightly out of shape people who pick on bigger people. That same person I referenced above, made a fat joke about my friend when she wasn't there. He thought I'd laugh, but I turned around and looked at him and said, "YOU CAN STAND TO LOSE A FEW POUNDS YOURSELF".

    He got hurt pretty bad, but I wasn't mad. .
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:02 AM GMT
    I dated a guy who was really overweight. He was funny and a sweet guy. Yet, we could not make it work because we were both so different. His personality won me over, but in time I could not deal with his health issues all caused by overeating and diabetes. More to this than told......

    I care and try to always help and set an example for good health. It's not that hard to get back to basics, be real and in touch with your body......2BNAKED and comfortable in your own skin will guarantee you miles of success!!

    So I say: loose the weight, get into shape, be the real you that you always wanted to be and be that kind of a partner you would want to be with!!

    Sadly, my own Dad tried many times to keep fit.....but not hard enough!! Now....he's almost gone due to diabetes related illness and blood sugar issues!!

    Moral of the story...guys do not spike your blood sugar...if you do, go walk a few miles!!
    Be happy and Live long my friends!
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:17 AM GMT
    ^^^
    That is unfortunate.. I know once people get older exercising just isn't an option do to just aging. I know my parents can't do much of the running and treadmill stuff anymore themselves.

    All variables aside, going by the posters age, I assume he's referring to the general, majority LGBT age group.
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:38 AM GMT
    Sounds like it was an episode of the Gap Girls.
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    Feb 26, 2015 3:59 AM GMT
    Overweight people deserve to be yelled at, and made fun of. They are a burden to the health care system. They cost society a lot of money.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 26, 2015 4:26 AM GMT
    I don't know about fat, but most of the ones in this community would be out of breath after running one block .... unless they've drinken a fifth first icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 26, 2015 5:24 AM GMT
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fat+shaming
    A term made by obese people to avoid the responsibility to actually take proper care of their body and instead victimize themself by pretending they're discriminated like an ethnic group.


    So being rude is now excused by saying the other guy isn't accepting the rudeness? The rudeness is required?

    And what was that other thread http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4008890

    vanity shaming?

    Was he required to take responsibility for, what, not hitting on hotter guys?

    People are smart enough to know when they're fat. You don't have to tell them.

    People know when they're not 10s. So it would be rude to harp on that.

    Though sometimes you have to tell stupid people that they're being stupid.
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    Feb 26, 2015 6:43 AM GMT
    pazzy said
    ThatSwimmerGuy saidOverweight people deserve to be yelled at, and made fun of. They are a burden to the health care system. They cost society a lot of money.


    same could be said about promiscuous gay men though who burden the health care system with the rise of new hiv and std cases through unprotected sex. so according to your logic, it's okay for us to slut shame and make fun of gay sex and rush to judgment About gay people period. Folks love to throw bricks without realizing they ate indirectly speaking about themselves because theyre paVing the way for an even uglier picture.


    Bitch please. I'll choke the shit out of someone who said that to me. Are you really fucking serious? If ever you knew....the health care system MAKES MONEY AND PROFITS off of HIV meds (It's actually smoking, obesity, heart disease, and accidents that end up in the system. Gay sex is not even in the top 10 killers). Apart from care, most of them are all too eager to GIVE and diagnose HIV/meds to people.

    Someone needs to give you a good, stern kick up the bum, and a guide to what drives pharmaceutical/healthcare systems (sick or unhealthy people) and statistics that show gay sex is NOT a cause for healthcare burdening...for saying that. Someone need to tap your ass good!
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    Feb 26, 2015 6:50 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    People are smart enough to know when they're fat. You don't have to tell them.

    People know when they're not 10s. So it would be rude to harp on that.

    Though sometimes you have to tell stupid people that they're being stupid.


    Hmmm, I don't quite agree. Most people don't know their BMI and what's an acceptable standard in proportionate of their height and age according to medical standards. So no, most people wouldn't know they're fat. They just know when they don't have a six pack.

    They learn they're fat when they end up in a hospital somewhere and the doctor tells them they need to lose weight because their arteries are clogged or their heart is failing.
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    Feb 26, 2015 2:34 PM GMT
    No, they're openly fat-shaming, just like everyone else.
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:09 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidAt lunch today I met up with two gay friends. One guy had been working in Japan since before 2011's tsunami, and hadn't seen us. My other friend is admittedly overweight, but not obese or gross.

    So my thin friend started in to my friend who'd gotten overweight: "Wow you really put on the pounds" (kind of jokingly), "You should really watch your diet," "what's your exercise plan?" Up until this point, I was on my thin friend's side, but as he continued I realized that his "I'm worried about your health, not how you look" line might not be genuine as he kept on throughout lunch, even at one point saying the larger guy shouldn't order dessert. We all got dessert and I steered the convo onto nicer things, but it got me to thinking.

    Have I been fooling myself. Do I have a shallow and superficial 'issue' with fat people that I mask as (fake) concern for their health?

    Is it primarily masked and cloaked fat shaming? Or genuine concern for their health?


    I think this is a cultural thing actually. If your thin friend has been in Japan for that long he's most likely adapted to their culture to a certain point. The typical Japanese diet is VERY different from the typical American and the Japanese are typically thinner in general, like many Asian cultures, compared to Americans. Its sort of like how the british concept of "fat" and the american concept of "fat" are two very different things.
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    Feb 26, 2015 3:23 PM GMT
    Uggg, ur friend lives in Japan for years, Japanese are known for their life longevity, also you can hardly see a fat people in Japan. He might has a cultural shock moment when he returns to America and sees your fatty friend are fatter and bigger size. I don't see how this is fat shaming, he just merely give out his 2 cents to warn your friend to look after his health, if the fat boy don't like what he heard, I am sure he will serve that bitch face on the dining table.
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    Feb 26, 2015 4:36 PM GMT
    FuzzyPecs27 said

    Hmmm, I don't quite agree. Most people don't know their BMI and what's an acceptable standard in proportionate of their height and age according to medical standards. So no, most people wouldn't know they're fat. They just know when they don't have a six pack.

    They learn they're fat when they end up in a hospital somewhere and the doctor tells them they need to lose weight because their arteries are clogged or their heart is failing.


    People also smoke themselves to death, that doesn't mean they didn't know it. People race cars, free dive deeply, fly into outer space, lots of things that risk their lives: they know but for whatever varied reasons do it anyway. Hey, you're driving fast. Oh, I didn't know that. Are you telling me because you think I don't know I'm driving fast or because my fat fast driving makes you nervous?

    I put on weight usually when I'm in mourning. I never got obese but I once got close when mourning was combined with betrayals, freaked me out and I blew up to about 23% bf. I've kept a good bod for most of my life. It was so uncomfortable. There's no way that a person wouldn't know.

    I've a neighbor who had a pretty good figure but then shit hit the fan in her life. Teen kid with lymphoma, mom with brain cancer, dad Parkinson's and her husband born again preaching engineer, yikes. She blew up like a fucking balloon.

    One day she even apologized for her own weight. I said to her forget about it. Get through what life's thrown you and then you'll work on yourself. I never had to tell her that she's fat. That would be rude.

    I've another neighbor who is morbidly obese. He drives his garbage cans to the curb. I do stuff for him. I pick up and throw out the throw away papers tossed on his yard because he can't reach them. One day I had offered to rake off his roof (he's a wooded property) and he made a joke about how he can't get up there. So picking up on his being jovial I made the slightest of jokes, something like, yeah, I might have noticed. Didn't mean it as anything. I thought I was kidding with him on the level that he seemed to be kidding. He was absolutely offended and I apologized. He knows. People know.

    You'd be stupid to tell them. How does telling someone that he's not a 10 benefit him? Particularly when the guy's already admitted (per my above-referenced thread) that he's already well aware that he's not a 10. Now we've had some guys on here who think they're hot shit when most certainly they are not. But even then, you probably only tell them when they're acting like a douche to someone else. And at that point you're certainly not telling them to help them. You're putting them in their place, in their fat, ugly place.

    You don't tell people that they're ugly, that their fat, that they have a zit pouring out their forehead. The stuff people know, you don't tell them.

    You might not even tell someone what they can learn on their own because they'll know it better if they themselves figure it out.

    You tell someone when their fly is open.

    Yet people are embarrassed to tell someone their fly is open and they let them walk around like that, but they'll tell them they're fat? I'm calling bullshit.
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    Feb 26, 2015 4:55 PM GMT
    Of course they're fat-shaming.

    Smokers have been shamed for years by people who don't want to smell it.

    Now fat people are being shamed by people who don't want to see it.

    There's really no difference, except that having sex with a hot smoker is more fun than having sex with a fat non-smoker.
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    Feb 26, 2015 5:34 PM GMT
    I will say I was never so self-conscious or had such bad self-esteem until I entered the gay world...I stay away from the gay world. If I want to be judged by a bunch of self-righteous, pompous jerks, I'll go to a gay club...
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    Feb 26, 2015 8:29 PM GMT
    It is in appallingly bad taste to comment negatively about someone's appearance to their face.The fat guy should have responded in kind or said fuck off.Class will tell darling.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 26, 2015 9:01 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidIt is in appallingly bad taste to comment negatively about someone's appearance to their face.The fat guy should have responded in kind or said fuck off.Class will tell darling.


    Agreed.

    @MuchMoreThanMuscle

    I tend to agree with you, and perhaps I should have spoken up more. I did make a few 'knock it off comments', but could have been firmer. The digs towards my overweight friend were either "health" colored serious comments, or the harsher ones were said as "jokes." I didn't want to make it a bigger deal, or some shit storm. Sometimes manners say the best thing is to minimize something or to do nothing.

    Bottom line, despite the comments, I still felt there was an acceptable level of respect at the table. Some of my "younger" gay friends can be particularly blunt and harsh. I say younger with quotes because they're my age. I have older gay friends, a group of 6 to 8 depending on how you define it, and they're in their late 40s, and 50s. I call them my "power" gays, they're all leading professionals, well cultured, and wealthy (I know money isn't everything, and they don't throw it around smugly, I mention it only to denote that they're fully accepted in all levels of society and have "been there" in that sense and know what they're talking about and have the means to experience all facets of life). I learn a lot from them, and they NEVER behave like my younger gay friends. My mother taught me excellent manners, but these power gays can outset my mother's table anyday, and don't get my started on their fashion sense (one is the owner of an art gallery).

    I think I need to see less of the one younger friend whose back from Japan. I don't like mean people in my life.
  • NeuralShock

    Posts: 411

    Feb 26, 2015 9:15 PM GMT
    *DISCLAIMER: I do NOT tell fat people to do anything. It is none of my business. But these are my PERSONAL feelings on this.

    Fact is I do not see myself able to date someone who is overweight while not bulking. Bulking overweight is hot and I love it... But just plain ol overweight? No.

    I really couldn't see myself with someone overweight without bulking.

    Why? Because it shows they don't care about themselves, blah blah multifaceted beings... But fact is THEY DONT CARE. Your body is your only one, you only live once (yolo swag) and you need to take care of it. Despite what most society is allowing to pass as "OK" treating your body as a repository for all foods trash is a bad idea.

    High cholesterol, stroke risks, heart attacks, poor circulation cause the heart cannot supply blood to ALL THAT HUGE AMOUNT of ... Well.. Literally... Fat. It is also bad for breathing like sleep apnea is a more and more recurring thing.

    Yes. It is an eyesore. And one they could work on.

    So honestly while I think your friend was pushy and rude he wasn't wrong.

    Personally? I say nothing. None of my business. BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO AGREE WITH THAT LIFESTYLE OR FIND IT ATTRACTIVE.

    What is ridiculous is the notion that any group of people should feel obligated to find any other group attractive. I AM NOT OBLIGATED TO FIND LOVE HANDLES SEXY. I DONT CARE. NO. I am entitled to my preferences and no one should have the power to revoke the right to choose.