2 Apocalypses in the New Testament: Are They Both Needed?

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    Feb 26, 2015 8:15 PM GMT
    #1 - By Jesus: Destruction of the Temple, etc.

    #2 - Apocalypse as Justice for the saints defeated in the Jewish Revolt, the apocalyptic lamentation over the destruction of the Temple and the loss of Jerusalem to Gentiles.

    Yes, they were saints. Vespasian said Jupiter defeated the God of Israel thereby putting Jupiter before the God of Israel which is a violation of the first of 10 Commandments in the Torah

    Yes, we needed the second apocalypse to honor those who suffered and died during the First Jewish Roman War. Those saints cry out: how long before we are justified?

    Notice, since the spirits of the fallen speak, this genre is non-naturalistic, beyond realism, into the realm of imagination, with angels and beasts.
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    Feb 28, 2015 4:44 PM GMT
    Dr. Ehrman, earlier you said Revelation should not be applied to 2,000 years later and you said apocalypses are written for conditions of distress. Why wouldn't Revelation communicate to the saints of rebellion upholding the First Commandment that "even though you loss the First Jewish Roman War, you were right to fight it. This book will give you hope that in your defeat you had righteousness which will be vindicated."
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    Mar 07, 2015 9:50 PM GMT
    StephenOABC saidDr. Ehrman, earlier you said Revelation should not be applied to 2,000 years later and you said apocalypses are written for conditions of distress. Why wouldn't Revelation communicate to the saints of rebellion upholding the First Commandment that "even though you loss the First Jewish Roman War, you were right to fight it. This book will give you hope that in your defeat you had righteousness which will be vindicated."


    Dr. Ehrman

    Revelation is a Christian work.

    stephenoabc

    Dear Dr. Ehrman, I would like to modify my position to include more Christianity in the foundation of my answer, if you were to agree to it. You spoke of Nero's persecution of Christians but I think that is too early, coming after the Jewish Revolt and since Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian. What would you say to the Second Persecution of Christians under Emperor Domitian

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/foxs-book-of-martyrs/the-second-persecution-under-domitian-a-d-81.html ?

    The problem here is that his persecution extended years after with the killing of Clemens:

    In Rome however, things were different. In AD 90 Cornelia, the head of the Vestal Virgins was walled up alive in an underground cell, after being convicted of 'immoral behaviour', while her alleged lovers were beaten to death.
    And in Judaea Domitian stepped up the policy introduced by his father to track down and execute Jews claiming descent from their ancient king David. But if this policy under Vespasian had been introduced to eliminate any potential leaders of rebellions, then with Domitian it was pure religious oppression. Even among leading Romans in Rome itself this religious tyranny found victims. The consul Flavius Clemens was killed and his wife Flavia Domitilla banished, for being convicted of 'godlessness'. Most likely they were sympathisers with Jews.

    Finally, with all the research you've done, was Clemens a Christian, a martyr, if not a pope (Clement)?

    Thank you, sir.