Russell Tovey (Star on HBO's Looking) Angers Fans With Controversial Remarks On Effeminate Men

  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Mar 03, 2015 1:08 AM GMT
    Russell Tovey Angers Fans With Controversial Remarks On Effeminate Men


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/02/russell-tovey-effeminate-gay-_n_6784070.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000050




    "I don't think most dads who want their sons to "man up" are bad guys. Like the rest of us, they've been living in and trying to measure up to a culture that tells us that if you're assigned male at birth, then there are specific ways of being and acting that must be adhered to and if they aren't, there will be trouble. It's too frightening and too exhausting to attempt to challenge and change the culture, so instead, they attempt to challenge and change their boys.


    The same goes for the boys themselves. I don't think Tovey or anyone who thinks like Tovey is a bad person for feeling the way that he feels. But let's be clear that Tovey is passing judgement on effeminacy. If we look at his statement again, he isn't simply saying, as some have argued, that he is masculine and that's just the way it goes. When I read comments from people trying to make this into some kind of attack on the masculine gay men of the world, I seethe. Tovey states that he "had to toughen up," which implies that his natural state of being wasn't tough. What's more, when he says, "If I'd have been able to relax, prance around, sing in the street, I might be a different person now..." I can only read longing in that statement. Despite how much the lady doth protest, he gives himself away. He wanted to relax. He wanted to prance. He wanted to sing in the street. But because his dad -- and society -- wouldn't allow him to "go down that path," he didn't. That's not something to celebrate or be thankful for, even if it did result in "the unique quality that people think" Tovey has (which is what exactly? Not coming across as a faggot?). In fact, it just makes me feel sorry for him and his dad -- and all of us. Being exactly who or however he was just wasn't good or good enough and so he was forced to change and conform to what society says a boy should be. That's not inspiring, that's heartbreaking. But pity can be progress' worst enemy and excusing thinking like his -- or accepting the idea that it's just his "truth" -- leaves us exactly where we started: in a world where being a faggot is akin to a death sentence."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/noah-michelson/a-few-words-on-russell-tovey_b_6791216.html
  • Muscmasmat

    Posts: 124

    Mar 03, 2015 6:58 PM GMT
    I don't see anything wrong with the remarks he made. I see no denigration of effeminate men, only that he is glad he was exposed to a different environment than what he supposes would have happened to him at a theatrical school. His implied idea of what a theatrical school might have been like may or may not be correct. I suppose it depends on the school. His exposure to a more "tough" school just seems to have added an extra dimension to him, one he seems pleased with. So why hate him for this?

    Those that are taking offense at his remarks are only reacting to their insecurities with their own effeminate characteristics.
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    Mar 03, 2015 10:31 PM GMT
    He sorta did imply that being effeminate was something that he really really didn't want. and I can understand if a lot of LGBT people get offended by that statement.

    But to be fair, it's very tough being an actor, let alone a gay one. The thing is the producers and directors rarely cast male actors who are effeminate to play important roles. All leading male actors in the business are masculine. Yes, it's sorta unfair, but it's just the truth there. You know I heard when actors audition for straight male roles, the casting directors would ask them about their sexuality. It's no secret that Hollywood studios prefer the leading actors to be closeted if they are gay, but more importantly, to be masculine.
    But the good news is, I think things start to change. Lot of male actors came out these past a couple years. But rarely A-list ones. Which I understand, there are millions of dollars at stake there.
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    Mar 03, 2015 11:35 PM GMT
    Good God, the man simply said "I might be a different person now" (if he had been effeminate. In other words he is just celebrating who he has become and wouldn't want to change that because he is happy with himself.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Mar 04, 2015 12:01 AM GMT
    Is he not entitled to his own perspective and opinion? This hardly constitutes hate speech. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Also, he's British, they are a lot more blunt and less uptight/PC about the things of life. Which is why I love them.
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    Mar 04, 2015 12:59 AM GMT
    Mulignan saidIs he not entitled to his own perspective and opinion? This hardly constitutes hate speech. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Also, he's British, they are a lot more blunt and less uptight/PC about the things of life. Which is why I love them.

    He has been criticized everywhere. Saying things like I am glad I didn't turn out to be an effeminate men isn't doing good for anyone. As a public figure he should at least think before what he is going to speak. If anything, it makes effeminate men as some bad thing, like how homosexuals are for heterosexuals. It's good that he turned out the super butch masc bro, like how it's good for so many heterosexuals that they aren't gay.
    Oh yeah, I am a flaming queen and projecting my insecurities because I find the treatment of effeminate men appaling.
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    Mar 04, 2015 1:02 AM GMT
    Radd saidGood God, the man simply said "I might be a different person now" (if he had been effeminate. In other words he is just celebrating who he has become and wouldn't want to change that because he is happy with himself.

    Nice cherry picking. He also said, "I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path." What path? Why is he thankful? Hmm, may be because effeminate men are treated like second class citizen?
  • Beeftastic

    Posts: 1747

    Mar 04, 2015 1:47 AM GMT
    Jeeez, he is an actor (and not one of the big ones). Since when should he have gone to school to learn how to never ever offend anyone? He's just a guy that acts.

    If everything YOU ever said about being gay was pushed out to the media, how would you look? Or me?

    I can't believe people are trying to make him into a punching bag or and icon. He is a cute guy with acting skills, he's not Hillary Clinton.

    He's been around San Francisco a lot the last couple of years. He went to my gym, I spoke to him once. He's a genuinely nice guy. I've seen him out to dinner three times with guys that are some of the top hotties in the neighborhood. Those dinners sure did look like dates icon_smile.gif

    Gay culture sure does like to tear down it's own.

  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Mar 04, 2015 3:05 AM GMT
    Russell Tovey Responds To Controversy Over His Remarks About 'Effeminate' Men

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/03/russell-tovey-apology-_n_6791980.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2015 4:18 AM GMT
    I think any gay actor is well aware of the dynamics that exist for gays. I'm wondering if his quotes were taken out of context or are missing other quotes? He has a platform now. When you are a gay guy on a show about being gay in a time where we still can be fired for being gay or are fighting for acceptance and rights, you should absolutely make an effort to be inclusive. Again, maybe he was answering a very specific question or maybe he said a lot more that wasn't captured here.

    I am a pretty masculine guy and I too am very proud of the confidence I feel from being the guy who I am after struggling for years to figure it all out. I think that is what Russell is trying to say (or at least I hope). But feminine guys get bashed a lot. They don't have the camouflage that masculine guys can use to blend in (or hide behind). As a result, feminine men take the brunt of the gay insults, abuse, assaults and deaths. They have to fight through more discrimination and they are ostracized a lot more. We all know that and have an obligation to stick together more.

    There are certain "dog whistles" minority groups are used to hearing that cause our ears to perk up. When he says he could've been "allowed to prance around and sing in the street" etc, I heard the whistle. Multiple whistles. So while I didn't have a problem with what he said, I had a problem with how non inclusive it was of his fans who actually did prance around in the street.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1980

    Mar 04, 2015 4:45 AM GMT
    I think he meant his background helped enable him to play straight or gay roles as an actor.
    Overall, he's an ally. We should concentrate on our real enemies, which he is not.
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    Mar 04, 2015 6:19 AM GMT
    __morphic__ said
    Radd saidGood God, the man simply said "I might be a different person now" (if he had been effeminate. In other words he is just celebrating who he has become and wouldn't want to change that because he is happy with himself.

    Nice cherry picking. He also said, "I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path." What path? Why is he thankful? Hmm, may be because effeminate men are treated like second class citizen?


    Either way. We have people burning gay men alive around the world and we're choosing this guy to crucify?
  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Mar 04, 2015 6:31 AM GMT
    Crucify? I see it as just a discussion.
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    Mar 04, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
    metta8 saidCrucify? I see it as just a discussion.


    It doesn't even warrant a discussion because he didn't even say anything offensive. This is like arresting someone for Jay Walking while people are being murdered on the same block. We are not all the same and we all have different views. Some people won't be satisfied until we're all clones.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2015 8:19 AM GMT
    woodfordr saidI think any gay actor is well aware of the dynamics that exist for gays. I'm wondering if his quotes were taken out of context or are missing other quotes? He has a platform now. When you are a gay guy on a show about being gay in a time where we still can be fired for being gay or are fighting for acceptance and rights, you should absolutely make an effort to be inclusive. Again, maybe he was answering a very specific question or maybe he said a lot more that wasn't captured here.

    I am a pretty masculine guy and I too am very proud of the confidence I feel from being the guy who I am after struggling for years to figure it all out. I think that is what Russell is trying to say (or at least I hope). But feminine guys get bashed a lot. They don't have the camouflage that masculine guys can use to blend in (or hide behind). As a result, feminine men take the brunt of the gay insults, abuse, assaults and deaths. They have to fight through more discrimination and they are ostracized a lot more. We all know that and have an obligation to stick together more.

    There are certain "dog whistles" minority groups are used to hearing that cause our ears to perk up. When he says he could've been "allowed to prance around and sing in the street" etc, I heard the whistle. Multiple whistles. So while I didn't have a problem with what he said, I had a problem with how non inclusive it was of his fans who actually did prance around in the street.

    This nailed it. He isn't just some gay guy because we already know how most of the gay guys perceive and treat effeminate men.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2015 8:21 AM GMT
    Radd said
    metta8 saidCrucify? I see it as just a discussion.


    It doesn't even warrant a discussion because he didn't even say anything offensive. This is like arresting someone for Jay Walking while people are being murdered on the same block. We are not all the same and we all have different views. Some people won't be satisfied until we're all clones.


    I understand what you are saying because I agree with you on not saying anything offensive. But after reading the Twitter responses from other gay actors, production staff, etc, then I can see their point on why his words angered so many.

    Unfortunately, the damage is already done and I'm sure he's lost many of his fans. Instead of apologizing on twitter, he needs to do a follow up interview with the Guardian to elaborate on what he said. This guy should already know that anything he says publicly can potentially hurt his acting career.
  • Sincityfan

    Posts: 409

    Mar 04, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    what's the big deal?
    90% of the people here feel the same way.
    as do those on grindr and other hookup apps.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Mar 04, 2015 8:58 PM GMT
    Ah Screw it.

    Tell Russell Tovey's Dad gays owe him a lifetime of blowjobs and unlimited tranny ass for not letting his son turn into a nellie little bitch who'd host kitchen makeover series or remove body hair off Kardashians and drag queens who entertain on offshore oil rigs.

    Do you think when Russell's getting fucked hard his ears flap 80 x a second? If so I'd like to try to do it until he gets airborne.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2015 10:19 PM GMT
    Radd said
    metta8 saidCrucify? I see it as just a discussion.


    It doesn't even warrant a discussion because he didn't even say anything offensive. This is like arresting someone for Jay Walking while people are being murdered on the same block. We are not all the same and we all have different views. Some people won't be satisfied until we're all clones.



    Of course it warrants discussion, which is why it's gone viral all over the internet while you weren't looking.


  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Mar 05, 2015 7:09 AM GMT
    Is masculinity innate, or is it just an act?

    http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/03/04/op-ed-russell-tovey-sexism-and-imaginary-masculinity?team=social
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2015 10:39 AM GMT
    metta8 saidIs masculinity innate, or is it just an act?

    http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/03/04/op-ed-russell-tovey-sexism-and-imaginary-masculinity?team=social

    I vote for an act as gay men call themselves "straight acting".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2015 11:14 PM GMT
    The real problem is that lots of gay people view guys that are proud of their masculinity as automatically anti-fem, yet pro-fem attitudes (which always seem to come with unnecessary masc-bashing) are almost encouraged in this community. A definite double standard.
  • bobbobbob

    Posts: 2812

    Mar 06, 2015 1:42 AM GMT
    CODY4U saidThe real problem is that lots of gay people view guys that are proud of their masculinity as automatically anti-fem, yet pro-fem attitudes (which always seem to come with unnecessary masc-bashing) are almost encouraged in this community. A definite double standard.


    ^^^^^ Exactly

    That has become exponential in the past 20 years right along with the decline of self deprecating humor and the epidemic of gay men taking themselves way too seriously.

    I have no issues with less than macho guys as long as they don't get pissy if I start laughing when they profess to be a top while imitating Jack McFarland with in a print shirt featuring cute poodles. Yes, it really happened and it was ten times funnier once his top image image burst into flames to release his true inner bitch.

    bitch top no matter how PC you want to be about it.

    One of the funniest episodes recently was with a pretty fem guy known for his perpetually transitory "image." He shows up with shaved chicken legs dressed in skin tight shorts one day then jeans, boots and corduroy vest the next. He was at the bar and said something too loudly about being an Alpha Male.
    Three stools away a real masc guy who'd been quiet mumbled, "Alpha Male? Did you go through the whole alphabet backwards and run out of all other options?"



  • Beeftastic

    Posts: 1747

    Mar 06, 2015 2:34 AM GMT
    So many gay guys call themselves masculine and 80% of them simply are not. They are TRYING to be, and they think that qualifies as succeeding. I don't have a problem with guys that are either masculine or fem, I like and date both. What I have a problem with is that they are living in delusion and a shared fantasy (because they seem to mostly hang out with other guys that are the same way).

    And this leads to denigrating the fem side of the gay spectrum.

    Russell Tovey is kind of in the middle in terms of masculine. If I didn't know him and saw him with a girl, I'd probably assume he is straight. He doesn't seem like the type I described above that is trying too hard.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    Mar 06, 2015 3:27 AM GMT
    Beeftastic saidSo many gay guys call themselves masculine and 80% of them simply are not. They are TRYING to be, and they think that qualifies as succeeding. I don't have a problem with guys that are either masculine or fem, I like and date both. What I have a problem with is that they are living in delusion and a shared fantasy (because they seem to mostly hang out with other guys that are the same way).

    And this leads to denigrating the fem side of the gay spectrum.

    Russell Tovey is kind of in the middle in terms of masculine. If I didn't know him and saw him with a girl, I'd probably assume he is straight. He doesn't seem like the type I described above that is trying too hard.


    I agree pretty much there. This is why at least with fem guys, they are being honest. I mean, wouldn't you as a masculine gay want to know if the guy is feminine or not? I mean, it's obviously a big deal to a lot of masc guys so when a guy says or identifies as "fem", at least you know.

    But I do believe some masc guys protest too much. I remember my brother had a seemingly masculine gay friend who would always spout how much he hated feminine gay men or should I say "Faggots" as he claimed them to be. But then 2 years later (it was around 2012), he acted more feminine. My guess is that he was just trying to get approval from other masc guys to cover up his own feminine characteristics. I say this because before he changed, I didn't expect him to be feminine at all.

    So that was a big eye-opener and I' m sure there are others like him.