Here are 9 social panics that gripped America, were totally false, and did lasting damage

  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Mar 05, 2015 9:28 PM GMT
    Here are 9 social panics that gripped America, were totally false, and did lasting damage

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/here-are-9-social-panics-that-gripped-america-were-totally-false-and-did-lasting-damage/
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    Mar 05, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    metta8 saidHere are 9 social panics that gripped America, were totally false, and did lasting damage

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/here-are-9-social-panics-that-gripped-america-were-totally-false-and-did-lasting-damage/


    These guys got it wrong from the get-go: #1 can hardly be described as "totally false" in light of the revelations from the Soviet archives confirming the espionage committed by the Rosenbergs, Alger Hiss, Philby, Maclean and Burgess. And as far as "lasting damage" goes, the USSR wouldn't have had the A-bomb as soon as it did thanks to the Rosenbergs; both were rightly executed for their crimes. The several books detailing what was found in those archives and the role of the Venona Project in connecting the dots are all good reads, especially the ones published by Yale.
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    Mar 05, 2015 10:47 PM GMT
    ^^^^As usual, you got nearly every single fact wrong.

    1. The "Rosenbergs" weren't "rightly executed". Ethel Rosenberg was innocent, a fact finally revealed by her brother, David Greenglass, who shortly before his death stated that he railroaded his own sister in order to keep his wife from coming under suspicion. And, rather like MGINSD, he had no regrets about it at all.

    2. Whether or not Julius was a spy (and he was), the death penalty was not a foregone conclusion. Lots of spies and traitors have avoided this fate. In this case, pressure was put on the judge by McCarthy's sleazy little boyfriend Roy Cohn, who in later years boasted openly about his ex parte meetings with the judge while the trial was going on. For all you non-lawyers, an ex parte meeting with a judge under those circumstances is considered so bad that it often leads to summary disbarment. Roy did get disbarred, but not then and not for that.
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    Mar 05, 2015 11:06 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said^^^^As usual, you got nearly every single fact wrong.

    1. The "Rosenbergs" weren't "rightly executed". Ethel Rosenberg was innocent, a fact finally revealed by her brother, David Greenglass, who shortly before his death stated that he railroaded his own sister in order to keep his wife from coming under suspicion. And, rather like MGINSD, he had no regrets about it at all.

    2. Whether or not Julius was a spy (and he was), the death penalty was not a foregone conclusion. Lots of spies and traitors have avoided this fate. In this case, pressure was put on the judge by McCarthy's sleazy little boyfriend Roy Cohn, who in later years boasted openly about his ex parte meetings with the judge while the trial was going on. For all you non-lawyers, an ex parte meeting with a judge under those circumstances is considered so bad that it often leads to summary disbarment. Roy did get disbarred, but not then and not for that.

    I agree about Ethel Rosenberg, and also Julius being a spy. There are differing views as to whether Julius provided good info. Alexander Feklisov, a retired KGB agent, said he did not, but "Nikita Khrushchev wrote in his memoirs that the Rosenbergs "provided very significant help in accelerating the production of our atom bomb." " Point was disputed by Feklisov.

    http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/16/rosenbergs/index.html?_s=PM:US
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    Mar 06, 2015 12:13 AM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    In this case, pressure was put on the judge by McCarthy's sleazy little boyfriend Roy Cohn, who in later years boasted openly about his ex parte meetings with the judge while the trial was going on. For all you non-lawyers, an ex parte meeting with a judge under those circumstances is considered so bad that it often leads to summary disbarment. Roy did get disbarred, but not then and not for that.

    Yes, some of those facts form the background for the stage play, and later the renowned Emmy-Award-winning TV mininseries, Angels in America by playwright Tony Kushner. Al Pacino gives a brilliant Best Actor Emmy performance as the totally corrupt & amoral Roy Cohn dying of AIDS, 1950s gay henchman for Republican Senator Joe McCarthy. (While Meryl Streep, possibly the best US actor of the current generation, gives a poignant, and yet at times comical interpretation of the Mormon mother, for which she also won an Emmy)

    It seems the US Right Wing has always been like this. And they show no signs of changing. Fear & hate-mongering have always been their chief tools to become elected and stay in power. And persecuting scapegoats is their signature tactic, like they did with gays in the 2004 election, or "Commies" in the 1950s. Sounds somewhat similar to the Nazis and Jews, doesn't it?
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    Mar 06, 2015 12:40 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    And now you go ahead and step in it. Can't you just leave well enough be for once?

    Like an inconvenient truth? icon_wink.gif

    It's YOU who can't leave Obama and Hillary alone, almost every one of your threads here obsessing with them. But I'm not allowed to point out the shameful historical past of Republicans, that continues to shape the Party today? Well, I do beg your pardon, sir. Please let me know when I have permission to comment again. icon_razz.gif
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    Mar 06, 2015 1:26 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Art_Deco said
    Yes, some of those facts form the background for the stage play, and later the renowned Emmy-Award-winning TV mininseries, Angels in America by playwright Tony Kushner. Al Pacino gives a brilliant Best Actor Emmy performance as the totally corrupt & amoral Roy Cohn dying of AIDS, 1950s gay henchman for Republican Senator Joe McCarthy. (While Meryl Streep, possibly the best US actor of the current generation, gives a poignant, and yet at times comical interpretation of the Mormon mother, for which she also won an Emmy)


    I was organizing my DVD collection a few weeks ago and came upon Angels in America and watched it again. It's still quite weird at times, but you make excellent points.



    Art_Deco said
    It seems the US Right Wing has always been like this. And they show no signs of changing. Fear & hate-mongering have always been their chief tools to become elected and stay in power. And persecuting scapegoats is their signature tactic, like they did with gays in 2004, or "Commies" in the 1950s. Sounds somewhat similar to the Nazis and Jews, doesn't it?


    And now you go ahead and step in it. Can't you just leave well enough be for once?


    Really, man. Whether he's relating simpering stories of home life better left there, or hijacking threads to parrot his predictable prattlings, this guy just won't shut up!
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    Mar 06, 2015 1:27 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    I was organizing my DVD collection a few weeks ago and came upon Angels in America and watched it again. It's still quite weird at times, but you make excellent points.

    "Angels in America" holds a special place in my heart for several reasons, although I actually don't think it's all that great. The acting in the HBO mini-series was marvelous (Emma Thompson also did a great job, and I also have the DVDs), but I could never really get into the script.

    One reason is my very first boyfriend took me to see it performed live in Seattle in 1995. In a marathon 1-day performance (it more typically is staged over 2 nights, because of its length). I had only come out a couple of months earlier, I really couldn't grasp a lot of the gay references & messages. Plus if you thought the TV mini-series was weird at times, this particular Seattle staging left me completely puzzled.

    Then the HBO TV version was aired in late 2003. My partner and I watched it together as it was shown over several weeks. He was already exhibiting symptoms that I feared meant he was developing AIDS himself, a theme in the story. But despite my taking him to doctors several times a month, because I was becoming alarmed, they kept assuring me he was fine, couldn't find anything wrong.

    It turned out I was right, they were wrong. I knew my man better than they did. But at the time he still didn't have his fatal diagnosis. So we'd watch "Angels in America" together on the sofa, holding hands, and I kept telling myself he was gonna survive his HIV, just like the Angels character "Prior Walter" does.

    My partner was dead 2 months later of AIDS-related PML. My only personal consolation was that once he had contracted this HIV opportunistic disease, likely at least a year earlier, there was nothing anyone could have done for him anyway, always 100% fatal to this day.

    So that I did nothing wrong, I didn't fail him. I just wish I had been told sooner, so I could have prepared both of us for it better, because I knew inside me something was wrong, but the doctors wouldn't listen.

    So watching "Angels in America" is very emotional for me, on a personal basis. It was part of my initial introduction to gay life, and my introduction to gay death. I don't watch the DVDs very often today.
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    Mar 06, 2015 1:37 AM GMT
    Sharkspeare said^^^^As usual, you got nearly every single fact wrong.

    1. The "Rosenbergs" weren't "rightly executed". Ethel Rosenberg was innocent, a fact finally revealed by her brother, David Greenglass, who shortly before his death stated that he railroaded his own sister in order to keep his wife from coming under suspicion. And, rather like MGINSD, he had no regrets about it at all.

    2. Whether or not Julius was a spy (and he was), the death penalty was not a foregone conclusion. Lots of spies and traitors have avoided this fate. In this case, pressure was put on the judge by McCarthy's sleazy little boyfriend Roy Cohn, who in later years boasted openly about his ex parte meetings with the judge while the trial was going on. For all you non-lawyers, an ex parte meeting with a judge under those circumstances is considered so bad that it often leads to summary disbarment. Roy did get disbarred, but not then and not for that.


    You're certainly entitled to hold you opinions, but not to foist them off as facts. Both R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity. And, all my sisters are alive and doing well, TYVM.

    As far as the despicable Roy Cohn, his credibility is worth about as much as the Rosenbergs' claimed innocence; judge the credibility of the equally creepy Greenglass through a similar lens. A simple google or reference to the Yale Press books I mentioned will confirm exactly what I posted.
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    Mar 06, 2015 6:56 AM GMT
    MGINSD saidBoth R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity.

    Your faith in the reliability of jury verdicts is truly touching.
    I bet you were equally respectful of the jury verdict in the OJ Simpson murder case. (snicker)
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    Mar 06, 2015 5:50 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD saidBoth R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity.

    Your faith in the reliability of jury verdicts is truly touching.
    I bet you were equally respectful of the jury verdict in the OJ Simpson murder case. (snicker)


    Actually, when one tries as many cases as I did, he gets a sense of a good v. bad verdict; so much for your illogical analogy. Do remember the post-verdict interview of the OJ jurors in the driveway of one of their homes? That - especially the junior defense counsel's whispered promptings - said a lot. But, that doesn't change the fact that you misstated the facts re: the R-bergs and, having been caught at it, are reduced to substituting a snicker for more snark.
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    Mar 06, 2015 11:48 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD saidBoth R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity.

    Your faith in the reliability of jury verdicts is truly touching.
    I bet you were equally respectful of the jury verdict in the OJ Simpson murder case. (snicker)


    Actually, when one tries as many cases as I did, he gets a sense of a good v. bad verdict; so much for your illogical analogy. Do remember the post-verdict interview of the OJ jurors in the driveway of one of their homes? That - especially the junior defense counsel's whispered promptings - said a lot. But, that doesn't change the fact that you misstated the facts re: the R-bergs and, having been caught at it, are reduced to substituting a snicker for more snark.

    No, actually YOU misstated the facts in the Rosenberg case, and as the OJ example shows, your principles are, shall we say, convenient. But that's a hallmark of right-wingery. Flip flop, floppity flip, whatever the Party line is that particular day.
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    Mar 07, 2015 3:52 PM GMT
    Ann yes. Because this is a gay website, once again we have another forum where we get to bash America as the paranoid, hate filled, reactionary, racist, xenophobic and unenlightened place that it is. I think I'm just gonna block metta8's future posts...and save myself the trouble from reading this crap.
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    Mar 07, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    louder_and_louder said... again we have another forum where we get to bash America as the paranoid...
    america IS the nanny nation
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    Mar 07, 2015 5:31 PM GMT
    louder_and_louder saidAnn yes. Because this is a gay website, once again we have another forum where we get to bash America as the paranoid, hate filled, reactionary, racist, xenophobic and unenlightened place that it is. I think I'm just gonna block metta8's future posts...and save myself the trouble from reading this crap.

    There are many guys who agree with you but don't post much or at all. What you see here is a hard core group of leftists who defend Metta8's continual copy and paste jobs, who claim anyone who doesn't love Obama or his polities are racists and anti-gay. They use gay issues to try and bash those who don't share their leftist philosophy. In doing so they hurt gay causes by associating gayness with leftism, but they don't care.
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    Mar 07, 2015 7:33 PM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD said
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD saidBoth R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity.

    Your faith in the reliability of jury verdicts is truly touching.
    I bet you were equally respectful of the jury verdict in the OJ Simpson murder case. (snicker)


    Actually, when one tries as many cases as I did, he gets a sense of a good v. bad verdict; so much for your illogical analogy. Do remember the post-verdict interview of the OJ jurors in the driveway of one of their homes? That - especially the junior defense counsel's whispered promptings - said a lot. But, that doesn't change the fact that you misstated the facts re: the R-bergs and, having been caught at it, are reduced to substituting a snicker for more snark.

    No, actually YOU misstated the facts in the Rosenberg case, and as the OJ example shows, your principles are, shall we say, convenient. But that's a hallmark of right-wingery. Flip flop, floppity flip, whatever the Party line is that particular day.


    Please cite me to my specific errors and, if justified, I'll correct them as I have the few others I've made.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Mar 08, 2015 3:04 AM GMT
    metta8 saidHere are 9 social panics that gripped America, were totally false, and did lasting damage

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/here-are-9-social-panics-that-gripped-america-were-totally-false-and-did-lasting-damage/


    Without actually commenting on each individual "panic", I can still accurately say that some of them were not simply panics. Rather, some were a reasonable response to actual threats. Of course some of them were ridiculous panics.
  • FRE0

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    Mar 08, 2015 3:15 AM GMT
    Sharkspeare said
    MGINSD saidBoth R-bergs were tried and found guilty of espionage, and even IF Ethel was "only an accomplice," as their defenders continue to claim, she was rightly sentenced to death for that complicity.

    Your faith in the reliability of jury verdicts is truly touching.
    I bet you were equally respectful of the jury verdict in the OJ Simpson murder case. (snicker)


    Juries can act only on what is presented to them in court. If they are given false or inadequate information, that will be reflected in verdicts. That's how our system operates.

    In the OJ case, it may be that all the jurors thought that he was guilty, but not beyond reasonable doubt in which case they had to return a verdict of not guilty. It looks as though police misconduct let the jurors to doubt the reliability of some of the information that was presented to them.

    I've been on three juries myself and understand how juries work.
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    Mar 08, 2015 2:31 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    louder_and_louder saidAnn yes. Because this is a gay website, once again we have another forum where we get to bash America as the paranoid, hate filled, reactionary, racist, xenophobic and unenlightened place that it is. I think I'm just gonna block metta8's future posts...and save myself the trouble from reading this crap.

    There are many guys who agree with you but don't post much or at all. What you see here is a hard core group of leftists who defend Metta8's continual copy and paste jobs, who claim anyone who doesn't love Obama or his polities are racists and anti-gay. They use gay issues to try and bash those who don't share their leftist philosophy. In doing so they hurt gay causes by associating gayness with leftism, but they don't care.


    I don't post often because I have a life outside of realjock. I check it mostly for a few minutes once a day to follow up on email from some people I've met. Realjock.com is not the place to come for deep intellectual political thought, news, opinion or commentary (although I will say that 12 week strength foundation workout is pretty awesome).

    This specific forum and the particularly snide tone dripping with contempt of the linked article is what pissed me off enough to spout an opinion. Otherwise, it's just intellectual masturbation of the same people spouting off the same opinions. All of them thinking how wonderful they all are to be so rarified, sophisticated, and just plain better than everybody else.
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    Mar 13, 2015 11:05 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    I was organizing my DVD collection a few weeks ago and came upon Angels in America and watched it again. It's still quite weird at times, but you make excellent points.

    "Angels in America" holds a special place in my heart for several reasons, although I actually don't think it's all that great. The acting in the HBO mini-series was marvelous (Emma Thompson also did a great job, and I also have the DVDs), but I could never really get into the script.

    One reason is my very first boyfriend took me to see it performed live in Seattle in 1995. In a marathon 1-day performance (it more typically is staged over 2 nights, because of its length). I had only come out a couple of months earlier, I really couldn't grasp a lot of the gay references & messages. Plus if you thought the TV mini-series was weird at times, this particular Seattle staging left me completely puzzled.

    Then the HBO TV version was aired in late 2003. My partner and I watched it together as it was shown over several weeks. He was already exhibiting symptoms that I feared meant he was developing AIDS himself, a theme in the story. But despite my taking him to doctors several times a month, because I was becoming alarmed, they kept assuring me he was fine, couldn't find anything wrong.

    It turned out I was right, they were wrong. I knew my man better than they did. But at the time he still didn't have his fatal diagnosis. So we'd watch "Angels in America" together on the sofa, holding hands, and I kept telling myself he was gonna survive his HIV, just like the Angels character "Prior Walter" does.

    My partner was dead 2 months later of AIDS-related PML. My only personal consolation was that once he had contracted this HIV opportunistic disease, likely at least a year earlier, there was nothing anyone could have done for him anyway, always 100% fatal to this day.




    It is NOT an HIV opportunistic disease! Nor is it 100% fatal. It's only fatal if you have AIDS or another immune deficiency (not HIV as you previously claimed).



    JC Virus infection

    The cause of PML is a type of polyomavirus called the JC virus (JCV), after the initials of the patient from whose tissue the virus was first successfully cultured. Recent publications indicate 39%[2] to 58%[3] of the general population are seropositive for antibodies to JCV, indicating current or previous infection with the virus. JCV causes persistent asymptomatic infection in approximately one-third of the adult population, based on viral shedding into the urine from the site of asymptomatic infection in the kidney. The virus causes disease only when the immune system has been severely weakened.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_multifocal_leukoencephalopathy

    ART DECO clearly knows nothing about HIV. He's quick with anecdotal stories that bolster his claims. I feel sorry for his ex, just as do for all of my friends that died of AIDS, but I do not make up lies to distance myself from reality.