Who does not need to worry about HIV transmission or superinfection?

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    Mar 10, 2015 11:12 PM GMT
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  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Mar 11, 2015 2:36 PM GMT
    Viruses mutate and unprotected sex is selfish to the gay community!
    No preach. Fact. Ask an MD not an RJ.icon_idea.gificon_idea.gificon_idea.gif


    Not too mention the spread of other std's many gay men have. Some they aren't aware of at all.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 11, 2015 6:36 PM GMT
    I don't think dual infection (coinfection or superinfection) are as understood as you're implying. It's not black and white, it's still a relatively unknown area of science. Your advice certainly doesn't conform to the precautionary principle.


    The Journal of Infectious Diseases.
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/192/3/438.full
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    Mar 11, 2015 8:18 PM GMT
    Svnw688 saidI don't think dual infection (coinfection or superinfection) are as understood as you're implying. It's not black and white, it's still a relatively unknown area of science. Your advice certainly doesn't conform to the precautionary principle.


    The Journal of Infectious Diseases.
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/192/3/438.full



    Read the last paragraph:

    Because the frequency of superinfection is poorly characterized—as are its clinical consequences—how to counsel individuals already infected with HIV has been debated. Many believe that clinicians must counsel patients already infected with HIV to continue vigilant personal protection, through safe-sex practices or the use of clean needles for injection drugs, even if their risk exposures are with other HIV-infected people [4, 5, 47]. These prevention messages have been disseminated; up to 90% of HIV-infected MSM in San Francisco have heard of superinfection [54, 64], and 74% reported that they have engaged in “safer” sex practices because they were concerned about superinfection [64]. These conservative prevention messages to HIV-infected individuals may breed conflict and mistrust in the HIV-affected community, because the true rates and consequences of HIV superinfection have yet to be well delineated. Alternatively, some have proposed that HIV-infected individuals who do not wish to use barrier protection methods should be encouraged to have sexual encounters only with other HIV-infected individuals [54]. The same prevention message could be extrapolated to those who are exposed via needle sharing. This serosorting may be effective in preventing new HIV transmissions [54], but the risk and clinical consequences of HIV superinfection would not be addressed. Moreover, other consequences of unsafe sex, such as syphilis and other STDs, would remain


    It's about POZ to POZ, not Undetectable to Undetectable.


    Worldwide, 16 cases of HIV-1 superinfection in humans have been reported since 2002. That's rare. And again poz to poz.

    If two men are undetectable, a) they can't transmit HIV b) even if the undetectable person comes in contact with a superinfected POZ person they are protected by ART. This was demonstrated by a study (not a theory). There was a slight viral increase, still "undetectable" that quickly went back down.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 11, 2015 8:26 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Svnw688 saidI don't think dual infection (coinfection or superinfection) are as understood as you're implying. It's not black and white, it's still a relatively unknown area of science. Your advice certainly doesn't conform to the precautionary principle.


    The Journal of Infectious Diseases.
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/192/3/438.full



    Read the last paragraph:

    Because the frequency of superinfection is poorly characterized—as are its clinical consequences—how to counsel individuals already infected with HIV has been debated. Many believe that clinicians must counsel patients already infected with HIV to continue vigilant personal protection, through safe-sex practices or the use of clean needles for injection drugs, even if their risk exposures are with other HIV-infected people [4, 5, 47]. These prevention messages have been disseminated; up to 90% of HIV-infected MSM in San Francisco have heard of superinfection [54, 64], and 74% reported that they have engaged in “safer” sex practices because they were concerned about superinfection [64]. These conservative prevention messages to HIV-infected individuals may breed conflict and mistrust in the HIV-affected community, because the true rates and consequences of HIV superinfection have yet to be well delineated. Alternatively, some have proposed that HIV-infected individuals who do not wish to use barrier protection methods should be encouraged to have sexual encounters only with other HIV-infected individuals [54]. The same prevention message could be extrapolated to those who are exposed via needle sharing. This serosorting may be effective in preventing new HIV transmissions [54], but the risk and clinical consequences of HIV superinfection would not be addressed. Moreover, other consequences of unsafe sex, such as syphilis and other STDs, would remain


    Read the next sentences. Wish all you'd like, but the consequences of multiple strains of HIV coursing through your veins is, at best, neutral, and in any other scenario, deleterious to your health. I'm not saying it's easy to be superinfected/reinfected, but there's a lot scientists don't know about it, and common sense tells us that it's not a wise idea.
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    Mar 11, 2015 8:38 PM GMT
    read my edit
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    Mar 11, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
    Thanks for your question.

    The two main risks from not using a condom are pregnancy and other STIs.

    If these are not a concern for you, then there is little risk of reinfection. This is mainly because having an undetectable viral load on treatment makes you so dramatically less infectious that HIV transmission becomes very difficult.

    Even if reinfection occurred this would only be important if one of you had drug resistance. Because your viral loads are both undetectable, neither of you have resistance to your current meds.

    So long as you continue to take meds carefully and not miss doses, there is no reason that you will develop resistance in the future either.

    Although it can seem strange if you are used to using condoms, many people in your situation find that not having to always use condoms can have a positive impact on their quality of life.

    A recent report (in the publication AIDS) suggested having more than one infection may have a very modest difference but that this is so slight as to not be clinically relevant.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25102090

    This is a difficult area to study. Having more than one type of HIV may be common (in more than 1 in 10 HIV positive people).
    http://i-base.info/qa/10140
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    Mar 11, 2015 8:45 PM GMT
    MikemikeMike saidViruses mutate and unprotected sex is selfish to the gay community!
    No preach. Fact. Ask an MD not an RJ.icon_idea.gificon_idea.gificon_idea.gif


    Not too mention the spread of other std's many gay men have. Some they aren't aware of at all.


    If you read the link you'd it's from a Doctor.....Dr JOEL. he cuts through all the BS and myths.
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    Mar 11, 2015 8:56 PM GMT

    " and common sense tells us that it's not a wise idea."

    Common sense is often just common. Without any scientific back up, common sense is just myth, or worse, justification for discrimination.

    It was "common sense" at one time to think quarantining HIV people made sense.
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    Mar 11, 2015 9:57 PM GMT
    You do realize your link http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/192/3/438.full

    is 10 years old?????

    2014
    “There is not enough information available about superinfection. If superinfection occurs at all, it probably occurs in the first few years after infection. After that, it may be rare.”

    http://www.hivplusmag.com/treatment/2014/04/10/what-hiv-superinfection-and-how-do-i-prevent-it?page=full


    August 26, 2014

    HIV Superinfection Apparently Doesn’t Affect Disease Progression


    http://www.poz.com/articles/superinfection_disease_progression_761_26068.shtml

    As a lawyer wouldn't you use new, more current precedence?