Arabs (like Arabic) NOT indigenous to Israel

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:34 AM GMT
    Arab nationalists and anti-Israel propagandists like to claim that the Palestinian Arabs descend from Jews and early Christians. When, that is, they aren't claiming to descend from Canaanites or Philistines. Let’s review the archaeological, historical and scientific records.

    This is NOT to say that they can't stay where they are. This is not a mirror of Helen Thomas and others saying that Jews have to "go back" to "Europe" or elsewhere.

    Do the Palestinian Arabs descend from the Canaanites or Philistines?

    There is absolutely no evidence of this. The archaeological footprint of the Canaanites disappears around the 9th century BCE – some 1500 years before the arrival of the Arabs. Propagandists like Samer (“sxydrkhair”) have claimed that Palestinian Arab dress and art resemble those of the Canaanites, but we've seen that comparison fail. The dress is distinctly different from contemporary depictions of Canaanites found in Egypt. Modern artistic representations are totally wrong, e.g. showing Anat as a loving mother (which is as wrong as depicting Kerberos as a cute puppy), evidencing lack of familiarity with the subject (by both the artists and the public).

    There is no historical evidence for Canaanites during these 1500 years. The Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans and Byzantines didn't encounter them.

    The archaeological and historical record shows that the early Israelites/Jews originated from the Canaanites, perhaps with the addition of some regional migratory tribes (e.g. the Shasu). My theory is that these tribes banded together to fight off a new foreign invader at that time, the sea people known as the Philistines. Over time, the other Canaanites assimilated into the now dominant Israelite/Judean culture. The Jews, not the Palestinian Arabs, are the descendants of the Canaanites.

    The Philistines met their end at the hands of the Babylonians in 604 BCE. There are no further interactions with Persians, Greeks, Romans or Byzantines. The Arabs invaded more than 1200 years later. Most of those who escaped Philistia fled to Judea… making not the Palestinian Arabs but the Jews the descendants of the Philistines.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:35 AM GMT
    SCIENTIFIC GENETIC/DNA EVIDENCE

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11573163
    The Y chromosome pool of Jews as part of the genetic landscape of the Middle East.

    Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors. The two haplogroups Eu 9 and Eu 10 constitute a major part of the Y chromosome pool in the analyzed sample. Our data suggest that Eu 9 originated in the northern part, and Eu 10 in the southern part of the Fertile Crescent.

    Genetic dating yielded estimates of the expansion of both haplogroups that cover the Neolithic period [circa 8000 BCE] in the region. Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin differed from the other Middle Eastern populations studied here, mainly in specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in the non-Arab groups. These chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia

    That Jews and Arabs are "cousins" going back some 10,000 years refutes that the Palestinian Arabs "descend" from the Jews.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148
    Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa
    The American Society of Human Genetics


    the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).

    Migrations of southern Arabian tribes northwards have been recorded mainly since the 3d century ce. These tribes settled in various places in central and northern Arabia, as well as in the Fertile Crescent, including areas that are now part of Israel.

    These documented historical events, together with the finding of a particular Eu10 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes.

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
    HISTORICAL EVIDENCE SINCE THE 7th CENTURY C.E.

    While Samer has claimed that the Palestinian Arabs originate from natives who were "Arabized", a lengthy process that would take centuries, his own source (Edward Said in "The Question of Palestine") states a sudden change over the course of a few decades:
    Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics - including its name in Arabic, Filastin - became known to the entire Islamic world

    Filastin at the time was a military district within the foreign Umayyad empire (the "Green Zone" isn't American, right?), not an independent or locally governed state.

    Note the transformation from "Palestina" to "Filastin". Arabic lacks the "P" consonant and the foreign Arab invaders couldn't properly pronounce the Roman/Latin name of the country they had conquered and colonized.

    And colonize they did: following the Arab conquest (638 CE) various Arab tribes (including the Amilah, Judham, Kinanah, Kindah and Lakhm) settled the region. Others joined later (e.g. Ramallah was established by people who came from Trans-Jordan). Many Egyptians came up with Muhammad Ali around 1840 (and remained). Through the 19th century, the Arabs of Palestine self-identified as either Qais (northern) or Yemeni (southern) Arabs, a division that ran so deep that it was a battle line. You can still tell the origin of many Palestinian Arab families by their names. The Al Masris (literally meaning “the Egyptian”) came from Egypt. So many came from northern Africa that Jerusalem had a “Mugrabi Quarter”.

    Looking at the leading Palestinian Arab families:
    The Nusseibeh family claims its ancestors came with Umar[28]; the Husseini family claims to have come with Saladin[29]; the Nashashibi are though to have come with the Mamelukes[30]; Dajani are a peninsular Arabian family that were awarded estates in Jerusalem in the 15th century[31]. Among modern Palestinian Arab leaders, Izzedin al Qassam [the Hamas icon] was Syrian, for example, and Fawzi al Qauqji was Lebanese.


    I previously stated the Barghoutis came from Iraq, but they are a sub-clan of the Beni Zaid who came from the Hejaz (Saudi/Arabia):

    http://www.sufitrails.ps/etemplate.php?id=36

    || the Barghouti family, a sub-clan of the Beni Zaid

    || these hills seems to have been settled by a new tribe, the Beni Zaid - Arabs from the Hejaz who had served in Salaheddin’s army.

    Invaders, conquerors, who took the spoils of war.
    (And they claim Jews "stole" land when they BOUGHT it back?!)


    Heck, Yasir Arafat was born in Cairo and spoke with an Egyptian accent – which is why he lied and invented a family connection to the Husseini's in order to gain legitimacy as a leader!
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
    Samer has especially pushed the myth that Palestinian Arab Christians descend from early native Christians. Here is a dose of reality:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem#Christian_population
    The majority of Bethlehem's Christian inhabitants claim ancestry from Arab Christian clans from the Arabian Peninsula, including the city's two largest: al-Farahiyya and an-Najajreh. The former claims to have descended from the Ghassanids who migrated from Yemen to the Wadi Musa area in present-day Jordan and an-Najajreh descend from the Arabs of Najran in the southern Hejaz. Another Bethlehem clan, al-Anantreh, also trace their ancestry to the Arabian Peninsula.[68]
    [68] Bethlehem, The Holy Land’s Collective Cultural National Identity: A Palestinian Arab Historical Perspective. Musallam, Adnan. Bethlehem University.

    Once again we see that even the “old” Arab families were originally immigrants – or “colonists” to use their soundbite/slogan.
    In recent centuries, including the 19th and 20th, many more followed.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:37 AM GMT
    I recently read the history of the village of Jamma'in, located in the middle of Samaria. Turns out that following the Arab conquest of the 7th century, the village was taken over by the Bani Qudama, who in the 12th century left for Damascus. Then came the Qasim tribe and the Zeitawi tribe (which arrived in the 17th century, coming from Arabia via Morocco and Egypt). The Qasims ruled until they were deposed by Muhammad Ali. Today the mayor is Izzat Zeitawi.

    Not Arabized. Not converts. Not indigenous.

    (Which does NOT mean they can't stay where they are.)
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:39 AM GMT
    In the 19th century, there was a large influx of Egyptians (coming up with Muhammad Ali in the 1830s). The Al Masri (literally meaning "the Egyptian") remains one of the largest clans amongst the Palestinian Arabs.

    Another Arab migration came around 1860, this time from Algerians fleeing the French.

    There were also Bosinan (Muslim) and Afghani "colonies", as well as Circassian, Kurds, Persians and other groups who migrated.

    from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica:

    || In the 19th century the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages. These newcomers have not been completely assimilated with the villagers among whom they have found a home; the latter despise them, and discourage intermarriage.

    || a fairly large Afghan colony that since 1905 has established itself in Jaffa.

    || The Mutawileh (Motawila), who form the majority of the inhabitants of the villages north-west of Galilee, are probably long-settled immigrants from Persia.

    || Some tribes of Kurds live in tents and huts near Lake Huleh.

    || a Bosnian [Muslim] colony established at Caesarea Palestina

    || There was formerly a large Sudanese and Algerian element in the population of some of the large towns, but these have been much reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century: the Algerians however still maintain themselves in parts of Galilee.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:40 AM GMT
    Between the world wars, more Arabs flocked to Mandate Palestine – drawn by the improvement in conditions resulting from British and Jewish development (previously the Arab population had been in decline for centuries). The British initially encouraged immigration from Syria to Haifa (with its new port and industry). By the mid 1930s, 95% of illegal immigrants apprehended by the British were Arabs.

    By 1938, the British built a fence along the border with Lebanon to help keep out illegal immigrants. Until that year, they didn't even count as immigrants those Arabs who entered western Mandate Palestine from eastern Trans-Jordanian Mandate Palestine.

    Within western Mandate Palestine, the Arab population grew most in areas of Jewish development. Between the world wars, the Arab population of Haifa (new port & industry) grew 394%. In Jaffa (adjacent to Tel Aviv), 226%. In Jerusalem (where Jews pioneered development outside the old city walls), 232%. In contrast, in Nablus (today the largest city in the so-called "West Bank") the Arab population grew by "only" 42%. In Bethlehem, 39%. In Jenin (closer to Jewish areas, which is why it recently gained infamy as the departure point of suicide bombers), 78%.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:41 AM GMT
    Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission (1936):

    || There is no such country! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of SYRIA.

    In 1946, speaking before the Anglo-American Committee, Arab-American historian Professor Philip Hitti (Princeton University) stated:

    || There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history.

    The Arab Higher Committee [the body which represented the Arabs of Mandate Palestine] submitted a statement to the UN General Assembly in May, 1947, saying:

    || Palestine was part of the Province of SYRIA... politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political identity.

    Ahmed Shuqiri, who would later be the first chairman of the PLO, told the UN Security Council:

    || It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern SYRIA.

    Arab leaders further understood that "Palestine" was one of their colonial acquisitions, no different than Spain or Iran. Arguing against the UN partition compromise, Azzam Pasha, Arab League Secretary, spoke before the UN (16 Sep. 1947):

    || The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely... that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine.

    So they went to war and lost. But the pre-war casualness about the prospect of losing "Palestine" and defeat didn't sit well. Actually, they hadn't yet lost Palestine: the Arab armies which invaded Israel remained in control of what today we know as the disputed territories.

    Furthermore, during the 20 years that these territories were under Arab rule, there was no imperative to establish an Arab Palestine. No one considered the territories as "occupied" (by Egypt and Jordan). There was no talk of "self-determination" for Palestinian Arabs. It would have been nonsensical at that time
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:41 AM GMT
    In 400 years of Turkish rule no one in the Mideast was Turkeyized.

    Likewise in the years before that they weren't Mamlukized, Crusaderized, Kurdized* or Seljukized.

    *Salah a Din (Saladin) and his Ayyubid empire were Kurdish, not Arab.

    Speaking of Kurds, like with Assyrians, Armenians, Chaldians, Copts, Druze, Jews and Samaritans (amongst others)... we see that the indigenous people were not "Arabized" but remained (as a group) distinct from the Arab invaders, conquerors, occupiers and colonizers.

    All except the Palestinians, which weren't a known group prior to the Arab conquest?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:43 AM GMT
    There's a video where houses of Palestinian Arabs are revealed to have had a Jewish symbol. Yet that same video also tells us that it was hidden (located behind a plant) so that the neighbors wouldn't know they were (originally) Jews.

    This tells us that this wasn't the rule but an exception. Which is to say, even if one Jewish family did convert, this wasn't something they wanted their neighbors to know.

    It's even possible that those were houses stolen from their original Jewish owners.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:44 AM GMT
    Hamas Minister of Interior and National Security Fathi Hammad:

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3389.htm



    || Every Palestinian, in Gaza and throughout Palestine, can prove his Arab roots - whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere. ...Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that....

    || Who are the Palestinians? We have many families named Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians. We are Arabs.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:46 AM GMT
    It's not just Hamas who recently admitted that Palestinians are a collection of foreign Arab immigrants.

    Azmi Bishara, an Israeli Arab and former member of the Knesset (Parliament); founder of the Balad party; an intellectual, academic, politician, and writer who is now the general director of the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies:



    || I dont think there is a Palestinian Nation at all.

    || I think there is an Arab Nation, I always thought so and I didn't change my mind.

    || I dont think there is a Palestinian Nation, I think its a Colonial invention: "Palestinian Nation".

    || When were there Palestinians?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:46 AM GMT
    It was only after 1967, when Israel took the territories in a defensive war, that the modern pretense of an "Arab Palestine", retroactively creating a history that never existed, came into being.

    The reason why this was done is best explained by Zuheir Muhsin (who was Secretary-General of the Sa'iqa terrorist group from 1971 to 1979 and a member of the PLO Executive Council):

    || There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism

    || For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:54 AM GMT
    Engaging from here:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4013400


    As usual, the propagandist doesn't actually quote his source. He usually twists 2nd and 3rd hand sources. From the scientific paper written by this source:

    The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378

    Not only does it tell us that all Jews are closely related and originate in the Mideast (contrary to the Anti-Semite's lunatic rantings: "Jews.... are overwhelmingly native to Europe."), this 2001 study states:

    || Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin differed from the other Middle Eastern populations studied here, mainly in specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in the non-Arab groups. These chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia.

    || The genetic closeness, in classical protein markers, of Bedouin to Yemenis and Saudis (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994) supports an Arabian origin of the Bedouin.

    While our resident racist seeks to "prove" that Jews originate in Europe, the study he referenced tells us that even Ashkenazi Jews show middle-eastern Neolithic era (10,500 years ago) genetic markers.

    A> ?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 7:58 AM GMT
    || Tribal migrations from Arabia to the southern Levant in the Byzantine period, migrations that reached their climax with the Muslim conquest 633–640 a.d.

    A> Hardly "recent centuries"

    The usual idiot methodology of looking at one thing (elsewhere, as quoted above, his source writes of "migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last TWO MILLENNIA".

    It's completely disingenuous, as he himself has admitted that during the Mandate years there were between 100,000 - 200,000 illegal Arab immigrants (which accounts for as much as 15% of the population in 1948 ).

    A> blah blah blah

    Are you denying that you previously stated the 100,000 - 200,000 figure?

    A> the Palestinian population is estimated to have expanded naturally by a factor of (at least) 2.7 from 1893-1947. "Immigration", whether legal or illegal, therefore accounts for (at most) 44, 520 of the Arabs in Palestine in 1947.

    Circular logic. The factor is derived from comparing the figures, less 45,000 legal immigrants. In reality the growth rate was 2.9% from 1922 to 1931, but only 2.0% from 1931 to 1948. Between 1860 and 1893, annual growth was 0.79% (based on a comparison of McCarthy's population figures). From 1870 to 1893, 1.07% (based on a comparison of Fassed's figures). Contemplate further that during WW I the population DEcreased by 7% and that 2.7% per year figure is obviously way too high.


    Elsewhere (where this is the topic - trolls can never discuss a topic in its thread because their nonsense was already refuted) I've detailed other migrations in the 10th, 16th and 19th centuries.

    A> You could find only three "migrations" of note over 1,300 years?

    That's on top of the other ones already referenced, and is sufficient.


    What's also relevant is the Mamluk scorched earth victory over the Crusaders. To prevent them from coming back, they destroyed the coastal cities and salted the fields, leaving a very sparse population until the Ottoman revival in the 16th century.

    A> by what standard the population of Palestine was "sparse"

    When a city like Jaffa lay close to lifeless for nearly 3 centuries, that's more than sparse.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa#Medieval_period

    || In the 14th century [1336], the city was completely destroyed for fear of new crusades. According to the traveler Cotwyk, Jaffa was a heap of ruins at the end of the 16th century

    Only in 1642 did Franciscan monks start a colony to facilitate pilgrims on their way to Jerusalem. The city walls weren't rebuilt until the 19th century.

    How odd that there are Arabs today who claim their family has lived in Jaffa for "thousands of years", eh?
    Are they that ignorant of [allegedly] their own history?


    Most of the Arabs present today descend from those who came in the 16th century and later. The "old" families that trace their origins prior to that nonetheless still claim they originated elsewhere in the Arab world.

    A> this ignores the rate of natural increase

    Sheer idiocy, else there'd have already been millions living there in the 15th century. It also appears the moron hasn't understood that there was NEGATIVE population "increase" throughout much of that time, that the population was naturally DECLINING for centuries.


    No one said anything about "rights". Indeed, in Israel both Jews and Arabs (as well as members of other ethnic groups) are full citizens with equal protection under the law.

    Ironically, the person who believes that this does give Jews a superior ethnic claim is not only AyaTrollah pouncer (thus he's hell-bent on denying Jewish ethnicity to prevent that claim) but also Samer (who thus now argues - despite all the genetic evidence - that the Palestinian Arabs descend from Jews who converted first to Christianity and later to Islam).


    A> ??
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 12, 2015 8:02 AM GMT
    No sane person cares about his selective, cooked and false numbers. As many have attempted to impart on the pathetic fool, such numbers matter only to racists - who get hung up on racial purity. Oh, that's why he cares.

    A> At least 60-80% of Jewish DNA is European.

    ROTFL. Even if true (and it's not, but he'll keep on exposing himself as a racist), it's irrelevant.


    the Arabs of Mandate Palestine, who only in the last [half] century became known as "Palestinians" (as defined by allegedly random post-WW I borders) are generally no more "indigenous" to "Palestine" (the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael) than Europeans are to the Americas

    A> 1922 - League of Nations approves Class A "Palestine" Mandate wIth the population standing at 88% Arab

    Arabs, not "Palestinians". The Mandate was entrusted to re-establish the Jewish State, not to establish an Arab Palestine (though 80% of the territory, east of the Jordan River, was allocated to that).

    A> ?


    Yup, ONE person in your 400 year period did refer to "Filastin Biladuna". Had the Roman Emperor not renamed Judea as Palestine, you'd claim that makes this group Judeans? Or had the Roman Emperor renamed it after their God of war, you'd claim they are Martians?

    A> "Palestine" is the name of the land and long pre-dates the Romans and their Gods, who simply restored the name long in use. What could be a more natural name for the natives than "Palestinians"?

    ROTFL. Palestine was the name used by foreigners.
    Why would locals let alone natives take a foreign name?!


    Not that they called themselves Palestinian. There was no such concept. There were Arabs who lived in a region some (mostly foreigners) called Palestine. Just as in antiquity, where Palestine was a name of a place but never in antiquity is there a reference to "Palestinians".

    A> Try "Philistines" - an identical cognate.

    Actually the derivations differ (thus one is "P" and the other a "Ph"/F), but given that the term Palestine likely post-dates the Philistines the idiocy becomes apparent. While ancient Greek and other writers reference "Palestine" (a district of Syria), they never - not once! - reference "Palestinians". Herodotus writes the population was circumcised, he was describing the Jews.


    That ONE person did so in the 10th century (when it was part of the Abbasid empire) is like pointing to someone who claims they are a "Midwesterner". It is a statement of fact about place of residence, not an ethnic affiliation. After all, by his own argument, prior to the Mandate period there was never such a thing as "Palestinian Citizenship".

    A> ?


    A> that foreign geographers from the 10th to 14th Centuries measured it virtually the same as we do today

    Of course they did. Their unit of measure was ancient Israel, the Jewish homeland - same as it was for the British after WW I.



    How odd that your "2-minute" (is that like 9 weeks?) search provided the same exhaustive list as every other time you've spammed it. If there was something else, you'd think you'd have found it by now.

    A> I have provided many (non-exhaustive) lists.

    No, you haven't. It's always the same handful of exceptions over about 1,000 years.


    While there were signs of such "crystallization" in the early 20th century, it didn't "crystallize" until after 1948 and moreso after 1967.

    A> by 1914 the natives saw themselves as "Palestinian and Arab"

    Why only 1914?


    A> have "no idea that they [a]re supposed to see themselves as South Syrians"

    Odd, then, that at the Nabi Musa celebrations of 1920, the masses were screaming to be ruled by Emir Faisal (who had declared himself King of Syria).

    LOL. The Nabi Musa celebrations are themselves invoked as proof of a Palestinian identity... by those who don't know that the tradition was established by the Ottomans in 1820 and revived by the Husseinis in the early 20th century.

    Tom Segev writes:

    || Al-Aref and Husseini both now [after the riots] tended to speak of the Arabs of Palestine as a separate entity, no longer as the inhabitants of "southern Syria." They would soon mean Jerusalem, not Damascus, when they spoke of "the capital." The Nebi Musa riots were thus not merely an expression of Palestinian Arab nationalism but also one of its catalysts.

    This, the beginning of "crystallization", in the early 1920s!
    A process that didn't turn the corner till 1948, and didn't head home till after 1967.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 13, 2015 4:09 PM GMT
    AyaTrollah pouncer> 1919-28 - Convening of seven Palestinian National Congresses

    It wasn't the "Palestinian" but "Palestine" National Congress. While he pretends that its existence (with it's name twisted) proves Palestinian ethnicity separate from the surrounding Arabs (Yet it was NOT the "Palestinian Congress"; as is it was the Congress of Arabs in British Mandate Palestine!), in reality:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Arab_Congress#First_congress:_Jerusalem.2C_1919

    || A cable was sent to the Paris Peace Conference, demanding a renunciation of the Balfour Declaration and the inclusion of Palestine as "an integral part of...the independent Arab Government of Syria within an Arab Union, free of any foreign influence or protection"

    || Palestine was envisaged as part of an independent Syrian state, governed by Faisal of the Hashemite family.

    By the 3rd congress, French control of Syria was established and Faisal had been evicted. The Congress couldn't insist on becoming part of Syria. Instead it:

    || Called for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence

    The 5th congress, in 1922, proclaimed:

    || "Palestine for the Arabs"

    Not for the Palestinians, that hadn't yet "crystallized".
    (Or rather, would likely be understood to mean the Jews!)

    It wasn't until 1932, a decade later, that the Arab Istiqlal (independence) party was formed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Party_(Palestine)

    || The party's aim was independence for all Arab countries, with the basic understanding that Palestine was historically and geographically part of Greater Syria.

    Oh, oh dear. Not what AyaTrollah pouncer wanted you to hear.
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    Mar 18, 2015 2:37 PM GMT
    mwolverine saidHamas Minister of Interior and National Security Fathi Hammad:

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3389.htm



    || Every Palestinian, in Gaza and throughout Palestine, can prove his Arab roots - whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere. ...Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that....

    || Who are the Palestinians? We have many families named Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians. We are Arabs.


    The international schnoorers
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 7:09 PM GMT
    Make that schnorrers and I'll agree! icon_cool.gif Thanks for these interesting posts, mwolve!
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    Mar 20, 2015 1:47 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidMake that schnorrers and I'll agree! icon_cool.gif Thanks for these interesting posts, mwolve!


    I grew up in a Ladino and Hebrew speaking household. I only know like 8 words of Yiddish.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Mar 30, 2015 4:40 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI'm surprised Pouncer hasn't chimed in on this one yet.

    Were you expecting him to try some of his other already-discredited pathological propaganda lies?

    For example, from this topic:

    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    and early 20th century Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491

    AyaTrolLiar> In his book 'Truth from Palestine'

    The title of the essay is actually "Emet me-Eretz Yisrael".
    Literally "The truth from the Land of Israel".

    Why would someone arguing that Palestine wasn't the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael translate EY as "Palestine"?!
    Either he proved the point, or he was caught misrepresenting the truth.
    Hoping that others would be misled to believe there was some other [Arab] "Palestine" in 1891.
    As we have seen throughout that topic, there wasn't.


    In the same post, our resident liar-for-the-cause similarly provides a sentence fragment "quote".
    Here's the first half which he omits-for-the-cause:

    Zeitlin> What all the Palestinians forget....

    He isn't talking about the Arabs (in 1905 no one called them "Palestinians") but of the Jewish Zionists in Zion/Palestine.

    So his own sources actually undermine his argument and shows how "Palestine" and "Palestinians" were used at the time.
    Which was not to describe the scant Arab population or an Arab land that never existed.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Apr 01, 2015 4:47 AM GMT
    As certain racists have previously projected their own hate ("Jews get out, go 'back' to Europe") onto me, let me stress:
    That their families only arrived in recent centuries does NOT mean these Arabs don't have the right to stay where they are today.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Apr 03, 2015 4:55 AM GMT
    It strikes me that in recent years, various sources have turned to calling people in Gaza "Gazans". In fact, one could likely find more references to "Gazans" during Ottoman times than to "Palestinians".

    In 100 years, a future AyaTrolLiar will claim this as "proof" of Gazan ethnicity.

    In an alternate universe, say one where Israel and Jordan made peace in 1948, with Jordan governing its "West Bank" and the people there Jordanian citizens (as they were in our reality until the 1990s), AyaTrolLiar pouncer is probably arguing that "Gazan" is an ancient ethnicity that goes back hundreds (if not thousands) of years.

    In this parallel world, Zuheir Muhsin (who was Secretary-General of the Sa'iqa terrorist group from 1971 to 1979 and a member of the PLO Executive Council) would state:

    || There are no differences between Jordanians, GAZANS, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our GAZAN identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate GAZAN identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate GAZAN identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a GAZAN state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a GAZAN, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Apr 08, 2016 9:26 PM GMT
    From another thread:

    GladiatorSam> Zionists were European settlers. They immigrated to palestine.

    JEWS, not "Europeans" (they weren't Germans, Poles, Hungarians or Ukranians, etc.)

    The majority of Israeli Jews today do NOT descend from "European settlers".
    Unlike the majority of Palestinian Arabs, virtually 100% of whom descend from "Arab settlers".

    Stop already with the anti-Jewish xenophobia/racism.
    We are all in the same neighborhood and have to live together.

    Let's talk peace: The two-state solution
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4180210
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Apr 17, 2016 9:11 PM GMT
    Anecdotal, but provides insights: