your experiences with high rents (not SF or NYC)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 16, 2015 4:20 PM GMT
    the rental market here in Denver has double digit increases.

    This is not a world class city as NYC or SF where rents are indeed high but you pay for what you get there.

    Denver
    Colorado could be a fly over state for many people
    -Denver is not that big a city
    -Denver is really an island in Colorado


    to own you own home; well the prices have not gone up so much but enough to put it out of reach to many people.

    your thoughts
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    Mar 16, 2015 5:06 PM GMT
    I think the rent hikes are everywhere. Last year, I was on a 6 month assignment in a small town in New Hampshire. I inquired about the apartment rent prices and they were outrageous! Almost $1400 monthly for a 1 bedroom in this town with a population of 75,000. Oh, and that's just rent alone. Not including the sky high heating bill during the winters months.

    I think the best approach to avoiding a rent hike is speak to the leasing office and see what offers they may have. Otherwise, keep on shopping until you find a price and location of your choice.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 16, 2015 5:20 PM GMT
    Rent in Durham, North Carolina (research triangle park) a little less than a decade ago was high at around $1,300 a month for a two bedroom. A one bedroom would run you $750 to $1,000, depending on quality. By no means could you rent for less than $650 a month, not even in a "ghetto" apartment.

    Rent in Philadelphia currently varies on location, not so much quality. A (preferred) Center City location (where the gayborhood is too, incidentally) will run you $1,500 a month for a one-bedroom. The quality doesn't really affect price too much, it's location based. A less desirable area will be $900 to $1,200. It's a mess. Creeping into the NYC price range.

    NYC (forgive me OP) is actually not that bad anymore provided you're not looking for a brand new building penthouse. If you're willing to accept a 4 flight walk-up, then you can live on the upper east side in Manhattan in a clean one-bedroom that you can be proud of for $1,700. If you want a deluxe or new building with a doorman then you're talking $2,200 to $3,000 per month.

    With respect to rent INCREASES, once you've locked in, it's everywhere. In NYC it's regulated how much they can increase you, but that drops off once you cross the 2K mark I think. In NYC they raise me $150 to $200 per month, every year I renew. I renew a couple years, then switch apartments. I can even go back to my original apartment now and get the original price, but if I'd stayed I'd be paying $800 more per month by now with the yearly increases.

    Other markets are similar. You can count on paying at least 1K dollars more, per year, with rent increases. Just move after a few years, lock in the new 'teaser' price a year or two, then move again. Otherwise, pay the rent increases. Or buy. It sucks, but that's the market now it seems.
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    Mar 16, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
    The report that was in the news this morning lists percent change over five years. It also compares this with the percent change in renter's income. So Denver renters only lost a little ground: 25% rent increase vs 20% income increase. The national average is 15% rent increase vs 11% income increase. As usual, New Yorkers took it in the shorts: 50% rent increase vs 8% income increase. OTOH, if you have friends in SLC, they should be able to lend money: 10% rent increase vs 32% income increase.

    http://economistsoutlook.blogs.realtor.org/files/2015/03/NAR-Renter-Research-70-Metro-Areas.pdf

    I have lived in a town that is subject to boom and bust cycles and seen some outrageous rates of increase. Moved in during the end of a "bust" and when the next "boom" hit, rents doubled each year. People were living in campers - they just couldn't build apartments fast enough. I had to move to a much less desirable apartment, much farther from work. icon_cry.gif
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    Mar 16, 2015 10:40 PM GMT
    mindgarden said
    http://economistsoutlook.blogs.realtor.org/files/2015/03/NAR-Renter-Research-70-Metro-Areas.pdf


    Problem with those numbers is that over a longer period they're sort of bogus because it's judging increases from right after the bubble burst until recent which says nothing about where we were 10 years ago.

    I had two houses in south Florida where it says increased 16.47% 2009/2013. Only the drylot home current rents according to Zillow and similar craigslist ads for about 1600-1700, right about what I got after the bubble crashed. And according to both Zillow and realtor.com the waterfront home gets now what I got before the crash, between $5,500 & 6k/month (at the low end of an area with rents to over $20k currently) and that had dropped precipitously down to $3500 during and after the crash.

    There the higher end rents are now back up to where they were before the crash but the other area is still pretty much where it was post crash. I did see on realtor.com some asking more there but I'd imagine those get negotiated down on leasing based upon what I saw on craigslist.

    So in either area, rent increases over the last five years do not nearly reflect rent changes over the last 10 years, and in fact I'd suggest based on that they've gone down at least by the cost of inflation (never mind, especially in Florida, steep insurance cost increases) because that $5500 they get for the waterfront now is the $5500 I was getting back in 2004/2005 minus inflation and additional costs. Crap, I didn't even consider the new flood insurance costs they have now that we didn't have then.

    So looking at just that 09 to 13 segment is a little illusionary.

    Most real estate here has lost easily 10 years or more of gains depending on location.
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    Mar 16, 2015 10:46 PM GMT
    Rent is insane in the DC metro area. We're now the 4th highest median rent in the country. You pretty much have no choice but to find roommates on craigslist to live here, which I'm not a fan of.
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    Mar 17, 2015 12:14 AM GMT
    pazzy saidreal talk....... fuck renting. it just seems like a waste of an investment honestly. i understand that everyone needs a roof over their head and the city is where everything is at and etc but still... it just seems like a lose lose situation at the end of the day especially if you're not elderly and you could actually put some of that money towards a house where you don't have to worry about a landlord telling you what to do on the lease, relying on them to fix whatever issue or tenants. i heard that most people that rent usually rent forever. that's just me though.


    Too bad we all can't live in our mothers basement for the rest of our lives like you, you fucking leech....icon_lol.gif

    Now Spaz is giving real estate advice. Is there anything he can't do?!?!!?
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    Mar 17, 2015 12:36 AM GMT
    Fiyero27 saidRent is insane in the DC metro area. We're now the 4th highest median rent in the country. You pretty much have no choice but to find roommates on craigslist to live here, which I'm not a fan of.

    I second that. Rent here in the DC area has gone crazy. We just got a notice that landlord wants to increase our rent by 20% this year. Trying to find another place to live, but you are looking at 1.2-1.5k/month for a 1 bedroom, even if you qualify for the "affordable" housing program.

    Only real choice is to find roommates, which I'm honestly tired of.

    I'd consider buying a place, but real estate prices have increased faster than I can save. It's a gods damn moving target.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2015 12:38 AM GMT
    I own a triplex in the Gayborhood of Dallas, and these days, like most Gayborhoods, it's newer construction and younger, up and coming folks living in 3 story condos, or high density living. Combo of progressive straights and some gays.
    When I bought this triplex, I rented out units A & B for $575. & $625. (in the 90's) Now.... they rent for $950. and $1,200.
    They're 2 story contemporary units with unique architecture.
    My tenants both know they have a steal for the area, hence stay longer. I'm kinda the opposite of a slum lord.
    We live on property and take really good care of the grounds/building plus never raise the rent on a tenant, again, they stay longer. One guy paid $850. for over 11 years! Pretty much paid off my 15 year mortgage.
    That unit got a hefty remodel now goes for $1,200. which is Great for the area and sq. footage and design.
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    Mar 17, 2015 1:36 AM GMT
    pellaz saidthe rental market here in Denver has double digit increases.

    This is not a world class city as NYC or SF where rents are indeed high but you pay for what you get there.

    Denver
    Colorado could be a fly over state for many people
    -Denver is not that big a city
    -Denver is really an island in Colorado


    to own you own home; well the prices have not gone up so much but enough to put it out of reach to many people.

    your thoughts


    It's financial imprisonment--destruction of the American Dream.

    The home budget numbers do not add up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2015 3:34 AM GMT
    That's interesting to hear that about Denver rents going up (doubling) in Denver. I'm wondering if it's college grds moving to cities like Austin, Chicago, Denver, Atlanta etc... which are becoming the new more affordable versions of NYC, SF and LA with less competitive job markets. Maybe part of a larger economic ripple effect since demand has gone up in for apartments over the years? Would be interesting to compare median rents since 2008 in medium sized cities.

    Here in NYC rents are still increasing steadily, IMO high from the viewpoint of a 20 something in an entry level job. Not nearly as high as SF but high enough to make me think of moving in the near future if I can't find a higher paying position. Would rather not live with roommates into my 30's; I need my own place.

    Though even people with six figure salaries complain about rent in NYC but I suspect a lot of them are living beyond their means.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Mar 17, 2015 5:41 AM GMT
    I own several rental properties in Palma. The truth of the matter is that the rents of the first class properties in first class locations are increasing drastically, due to the very low offer and increasing demand.

    The low offer has been caused by the massive conversion of the standard long-term rentals into your high-yield/max landlord control airbnb.com style rentals.

    Say, you go and look for a job. They tell you what is it that they are paying and giving away in terms of benefits. Unless you happen to be a much sought after specialist, it is your usual 'take it or leave it' situation. Lots of other guys on the market happy to work for this pay, rite?

    The same applies to the rentals. They tell you how much they want. You can make a counteroffer, though. But the chances are that they know what they are doing, and will increase their marketing budget/effort, and rent to the guy who meets their expectations.

    This is as much of an ideal "free-market" as it gets...

    SC
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2015 5:42 AM GMT
    Denver is quickly becoming a hot spot. Lots of tech companies are moving in. Better buy something now, or get priced out forever.

    Buy a large house, get roommates. That's how lots of people do it in SF, LA, etc.
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    Mar 17, 2015 6:04 AM GMT
    xrichx saidBuy a large house, get roommates. That's how lots of people do it in SF, LA, etc.

    That's exactly how most younger people are affording to live in SF. A bedroom in SF for under $1000 is now considered a steal.

    I think they're going up all over and you're right, SF and NY are crazy. I'm surprised at being able to get a one bedroom in NYC for $1700 or so. I have a 2 bedroom condo in SF and I'm considering renting one out with the second bath to to with it and my research says I could easily get over $1000/mo. That's just for the room so the days of inexpensive rents anywhere are slowly dwindling I think.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2015 6:38 AM GMT
    The US is having a rapid boom in the tech industries. Anywhere that there are tech companies, large numbers of people are moving to, for the increased number of positions. Supply and demand. There is a large demand for housing in booming areas, and the suply is not increasing much. Therefore, the prices of [properties and rents go up, and will until (if) the construction of new housing equal the demand. People can move to an areas a lot faster than new houses can be built. Construction of new housing takes a long time (Hell, in SF, the beaurocracy ensures it will take over a year just to get a building permit - and that's if no one objects.) Eventually, demand will slow, supply will increase, there will be a recession, and rents and prices will actually go down. Happened a number of years ago in SF, even before the financial crisis of 6 years ago. That will be the time to buy property.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 17, 2015 2:16 PM GMT
    @TomSoCal

    Your "growth control" argument is a bunch of BS and doesn't even follow the line of state/city legislatures and ruling political parties. But don't let facts get in the way of your story.

    At any rate--pun intended--I think we can all agree that housing cost and rent costs are increasing at a proportionally and relatively higher rate than wages. I've always maintained that home/apt ownership is what separates the haves and have nots. Either you PAY rent or you GET PAID rent.

    Unless you have a top 10% job/wage, then I'm unsure of how you change that. For example, if you rent in NYC, Nashville or whatever city you want to hypo, you're probably paying 1/3rd of your disposable income on rent. That leaves VERY LITTLE for saving for a downpayment on a place. That SAME money could be going toward paying your mortgage, and turning into equity, but instead goes to make ANOTHER person wealthy (and/or to pay THEIR mortgage). Fast forward 10 years, and if you rent you have zero equity, zero place, and nothing to show for it but the housing you had in the past. If you owned and were paying your mortgage, you have XYZ amount of equity and can pull out (assuming it's not a bust market) or keep paying it off.

    In short, unless you have a very high paying job, I don't see how a person goes from renter class to owner class. And I think the numbers are getting more bleak--in terms of social mobility--every year. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Mar 17, 2015 2:59 PM GMT
    Rental rates are up globally, it's not just in certain areas. Part of the aftershock of piling up debt and defaulting on it has been a dramatic increase in the demand for rental property. Rent stabilization programs such as that in NYC can be used to advantage if you are willing to move from apartment to apartment in order to tap into rate reductions as they appear.

    Fortunately or unfortunately depending on whether you are a buyer or seller, real estate prices in many markets are beginning to fall again after several years of increases. In Europe, the core Germanic states continue to see demand outstripping supply. If you are an American wishing to purchase in France, Spain, Portugal, or Greece, prices are very low in comparison to what they were 10 years ago. Pricey locales include Switzerland, Singapore, Shanghai, and of course coastal cities in Australia.

    There are actually some pretty good buys in the new Stern designed towers in NYC. Though prices are high there are no bidding wars if you desire a unit on the high floors in locations such as 30 Park, 432 Park, 520 Park, or the now moving along 220 Central Park South. Robert is an old gizzard who has not lost his touch in making towers and the view from them timeless.
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    Mar 17, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
    Montreal rents are cheap. I have a 1200 sq foot apt with 10 foot ceilings, hardwoods, w/d in the bathroom and 2 balconies for 950 (Canadian, which is about 800 usd these days, but since I'm paid in Canadian it doesn't really matter.)
    Toronto on the other hand is INSANE. I'm here for 6 weeks and paying 125 a week for a room in someone's house. I'm in east bumble fuck (aka North York) and it's friends of my cousin's husband so a favor. In other words a room in someone's house is a good deal for 500 a month! I tried to get a bachelor (i.e. A small studio with no kitchen) and that was 1850 a month!
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    Mar 17, 2015 9:57 PM GMT
    I would tell you what we pay in London but I don't want you to feel obliged to do sponsored triathlons to raise money for us
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    Mar 18, 2015 12:59 AM GMT
    Don't forget LA. I moved back east to be closer to my family. Bought a house and my mortgage is less than half of what I paid for rent in LA.
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    Mar 18, 2015 1:05 AM GMT
    Pellaz, don't you and your husband own rental property? How do you set the rental rates; is there some web page for listing rentals and you check the prices for similar places? I'm curious since I haven't rented in a long time.
  • monet

    Posts: 1093

    Mar 18, 2015 1:28 AM GMT
    I acquired two rental properties in Queens, NY in the early 1980's (one I inherited and the other I purchased). Each property has 2 two-bedroom units and 1 one-bedroom unit.

    In the early 80's I was getting $250-$350 per month per unit and I was barely able to make my mortgage payments. Now 30 years later the rents have increase nearly ten fold and I no longer have a mortgage.

    When I inherited the first property my parents urged me to sell it. I am so glad that I not only didn't take their advice but that I purchased the second property. Holding on to these two properties was one of the best financial decisions I ever made.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 1:55 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said@TomSoCal

    Your "growth control" argument is a bunch of BS and doesn't even follow the line of state/city legislatures and ruling political parties. But don't let facts get in the way of your story.

    At any rate--pun intended--I think we can all agree that housing cost and rent costs are increasing at a proportionally and relatively higher rate than wages. I've always maintained that home/apt ownership is what separates the haves and have nots. Either you PAY rent or you GET PAID rent.

    Unless you have a top 10% job/wage, then I'm unsure of how you change that. For example, if you rent in NYC, Nashville or whatever city you want to hypo, you're probably paying 1/3rd of your disposable income on rent. That leaves VERY LITTLE for saving for a downpayment on a place. That SAME money could be going toward paying your mortgage, and turning into equity, but instead goes to make ANOTHER person wealthy (and/or to pay THEIR mortgage). Fast forward 10 years, and if you rent you have zero equity, zero place, and nothing to show for it but the housing you had in the past. If you owned and were paying your mortgage, you have XYZ amount of equity and can pull out (assuming it's not a bust market) or keep paying it off.

    In short, unless you have a very high paying job, I don't see how a person goes from renter class to owner class. And I think the numbers are getting more bleak--in terms of social mobility--every year. icon_rolleyes.gif


    In addition to the financial imprisonment summation, I'd like to add: it's a sell out to capitalism. The personal budget numbers really don't add up and people are suffering financially. "They" sold U.S. citizens out to global investors who want steadily increasing returns. Why would Denver increase without it being a top city? Well, to a Chinese investor, a U.S. Real Estate investment is a U.S. Real Estate investment such that percentage increases have less to do with the quality of life.

    I personally believe the median rent for a 1 bedroom 1 bathroom apartment should be no more than $700 a month because people need:

    1) An emergency fund, every year of $2,100
    2) IRA contribution, every year of $3,000 since 401K matching is low or non existent. I'm a project management contractor and my agency asked me do I want to participate in the 401(k) program. I asked them, what is the match? We do not match, they said. I replied, then, you don't have a 401(k), you just have an IRA.
    3) Home ownership down payment, every year $4,000 for 10 years, so you can have 40K and your partner can have 40K, and you can go to the bank with 80K to get a mortgage.

    How many people are socking away $9,100+ a year????

    Chinese investors don't give an eff. (And, I don't mean to just pick on the Chinese investors.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 2:01 AM GMT
    When I was younger, I also thought I needed Long Term Care Insurance. Well that was ripped from my budget once rents went over $750 for me back in about 2007.

    So, add LTC insurance to my list of things we all should have in our personal budgets but the American Dream is being ripped from us.