Univ.of Cal. Berkeley Black Students Demand that Building be Re-named in Honor of Murderer on FBI's Most Wanted Terrorist List

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    Mar 18, 2015 7:41 PM GMT
    What is it about youth that they get carried away by crazy politics? (I wasn't a revolutionary in college, and never understood those who were.) So, they are feeling alienated (at one of the most liberal universities in the US, no less), and are asking for some changes - some of which seem reasonable. Then, they totally destroy any credibility they had with this absurd demand. Go figure.

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Berkeley-black-students-demand-fixes-to-6139786.php
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 18, 2015 8:44 PM GMT
    HikerSkier saidWhat is it about youth that they get carried away by crazy politics? (I wasn't a revolutionary in college, and never understood those who were.) So, they are feeling alienated (at one of the most liberal universities in the US, no less), and are asking for some changes - some of which seem reasonable. Then, they totally destroy any credibility they had with this absurd demand. Go figure.

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Berkeley-black-students-demand-fixes-to-6139786.php


    (1). Youth get carried away because it's normal to be passionate and idealistic when you're young. It's fine you weren't, but it's normal for most college students--myself included. The whole "if you're not a liberal in college you have no heart, if you're not a conservative when you're older you have no mind" quote/idea. While I'll always be liberal, I am less idealistic and am more pragmatic at 30 than when I was 20.

    (2). Student activism at Berkeley darn near a right of passage. They're famous for it, this is nothing out of the ordinary. Lock ins, hunger strikes, protests, etc are common place at Berkeley. I'd be fine with you saying it's "the" most liberal universities in the US. Not sure what Uni could top it.

    (3). Blacks only account for 3.7% of the matriculated students, whereas 13% of Americans are black. The talent is there. Other top schools, ranked higher and lower than Berkeley, can get a level of 8 to 10% black students. Why can't Berekeley? It has a problem of not having a critical mass of black students. Same with my alma mater, Notre Dame. Excellent school, but it can't get qualified blacks to attend because few want to be one of the only blacks there, to start the black presence. Imagine, a qualified minority with admissions to Berkeley, Notre Dame, Princeton and Georgetown. While the first three school are excellent, the black is more likely to go to Georgetown because that's the only school on the list above with a black presence--not to mention it's in a "chocolate" city. Whereas the others are in small towns or majority white towns. Nothing wrong with majority white or small towns, I'm simply explaining WHY qualified minorities would rather go to a place ALREADY accepting of blacks and where the "firsts" have already been accomplished.

    (4). While I do NOT agree with their honoring a convicted killer (despite the fact she maintains her innocence), I don't like the line of argument that "because you went to far and asked for X, you now negated YZ of your argument." The idea that there's "street cred" and up until a person said X they were going to get everything they asked for and be taken seriously. It's really just a turn-around attempt for a person who had no interest in addressing or taking seriously the complainant in the first place an excuse to say "haha, you're nuts, I don't have to listen to you." Seriously? You can't ignore their building name request? Because they said that their concerns are anathema now? I hate that "argument" that's often employed. The thrust of the argument is: sit down, shut up, don't complain unless it's REALLY important, lest you blow your chips. If actuality, you have no chips to blow, it's a lie. Moreover, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil usually.

    (5). And substantively, while I don't think Berkeley should honor a convicted killer, there are MANY monuments, buildings and neighborhoods still named after known KKK members or lynchers. So until the "Brady" district after known Klans man is changed in Tulsa, or the Nathan Bedford park named after a known KKK lyncher in Memphis is changed, I don't see the outrage.

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    Mar 18, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
    Since the early '60s, there's always been a certain number of US college students - how many, I don't know, but I'm confident in saying it's a minority - who do things like this simply for their shock value. And, many of that minority end up at UCB; from where they go on to live in SF, if they can afford it, or Oakland or elsewhere in the E. Bay if not. But, for those of us who attended HS and college in the late -'60s and early '70s, when the REAL action was going on, today's "protests" come off as cheap imitations of the real thing. And, "in your face" tactics like this one, invariably alienate more people than they draw. For me, the operative expression is often "Youth is wasted on the young."

    I can't help but think that replacing the traditional liberal arts curriculum with one that narrowly focuses on "traditions of oppression," multiculturalism and other contrived academic fads whose only apparent use is to provide their teachers with tenure produces people w/o the basic skills essential for intelligent, truly critical thinking but instead schooled in the tricks of cheap rhetoric and shallow, short-term, "feel good" reasoning and solutions.* What's even worse is that in our society such people can rise to positions of considerable power, and even, if adequately insulated and protected by an equally addled press, become president.
    _____
    *Engineering and the hard sciences, thankfully, remain the exception, though even there political rectitude sometimes trumps professionalism, though not to the wide extent now found in what continue to be called the liberal arts.
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    Mar 18, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidI can't help but think that replacing the traditional liberal arts curriculum with one that narrowly focuses on "traditions of oppression," multiculturalism and other contrived academic fads whose only apparent use is to provide their teachers with tenure.

    I would guess that the first manifestation of this was not multicultural but what is called American Studies, which is the favorite major of the white college athletes; track, football, baseball, basketball, gymnastics, water polo, swimming and diving, etc. For the blacks there is African American Studies. At UC Berkeley they also have Asian American Studies. They're convenient majors for the athletes who want a major that requires the least amount of studying so that they can focus on their athletics.
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    Mar 19, 2015 2:09 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    HikerSkier saidWhat is it about youth that they get carried away by crazy politics? (I wasn't a revolutionary in college, and never understood those who were.) So, they are feeling alienated (at one of the most liberal universities in the US, no less), and are asking for some changes - some of which seem reasonable. Then, they totally destroy any credibility they had with this absurd demand. Go figure.

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Berkeley-black-students-demand-fixes-to-6139786.php


    (1). Youth get carried away because it's normal to be passionate and idealistic when you're young. It's fine you weren't, but it's normal for most college students--myself included. The whole "if you're not a liberal in college you have no heart, if you're not a conservative when you're older you have no mind" quote/idea. While I'll always be liberal, I am less idealistic and am more pragmatic at 30 than when I was 20.

    (2). Student activism at Berkeley darn near a right of passage. They're famous for it, this is nothing out of the ordinary. Lock ins, hunger strikes, protests, etc are common place at Berkeley. I'd be fine with you saying it's "the" most liberal universities in the US. Not sure what Uni could top it.

    (3). Blacks only account for 3.7% of the matriculated students, whereas 13% of Americans are black. The talent is there. Other top schools, ranked higher and lower than Berkeley, can get a level of 8 to 10% black students. Why can't Berekeley? It has a problem of not having a critical mass of black students. Same with my alma mater, Notre Dame. Excellent school, but it can't get qualified blacks to attend because few want to be one of the only blacks there, to start the black presence. Imagine, a qualified minority with admissions to Berkeley, Notre Dame, Princeton and Georgetown. While the first three school are excellent, the black is more likely to go to Georgetown because that's the only school on the list above with a black presence--not to mention it's in a "chocolate" city. Whereas the others are in small towns or majority white towns. Nothing wrong with majority white or small towns, I'm simply explaining WHY qualified minorities would rather go to a place ALREADY accepting of blacks and where the "firsts" have already been accomplished.

    (4). While I do NOT agree with their honoring a convicted killer (despite the fact she maintains her innocence), I don't like the line of argument that "because you went to far and asked for X, you now negated YZ of your argument." The idea that there's "street cred" and up until a person said X they were going to get everything they asked for and be taken seriously. It's really just a turn-around attempt for a person who had no interest in addressing or taking seriously the complainant in the first place an excuse to say "haha, you're nuts, I don't have to listen to you." Seriously? You can't ignore their building name request? Because they said that their concerns are anathema now? I hate that "argument" that's often employed. The thrust of the argument is: sit down, shut up, don't complain unless it's REALLY important, lest you blow your chips. If actuality, you have no chips to blow, it's a lie. Moreover, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil usually.

    (5). And substantively, while I don't think Berkeley should honor a convicted killer, there are MANY monuments, buildings and neighborhoods still named after known KKK members or lynchers. So until the "Brady" district after known Klans man is changed in Tulsa, or the Nathan Bedford park named after a known KKK lyncher in Memphis is changed, I don't see the outrage.



    You are on fire today, especially the bolded part.

    Anyway, I don't necessarily agree with what they're asking for, or that this is the right approach, but you would have to be crazy not to acknowledge systematic inequality and that it might manifest itself at the college level.

    As a side note, I always chuckle a little bit when commenters on SFGate reveal themselves as out-of-town trolls. In particular, those thinking that the amounts of money requested for those positions are exorbitant. About half of that money is for the additional overhead (like health benefits, new computers, etc.), putting the actual salaries somewhere in the high 5-digit range, which is not at all unusual for the Bay Area.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Mar 19, 2015 7:26 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    MGINSD saidI can't help but think that replacing the traditional liberal arts curriculum with one that narrowly focuses on "traditions of oppression," multiculturalism and other contrived academic fads whose only apparent use is to provide their teachers with tenure.

    I would guess that the first manifestation of this was not multicultural but what is called American Studies, which is the favorite major of the white college athletes; track, football, baseball, basketball, gymnastics, water polo, swimming and diving, etc. For the blacks there is African American Studies. At UC Berkeley they also have Asian American Studies. They're convenient majors for the athletes who want a major that requires the least amount of studying so that they can focus on their athletics.


    lol my favorite was in the 80's when they all majored in "communications". now taking one or two 3 credit electives in communications, Black studies or Asian American studies is great, but that being "degree worthy" is just plain bullshit
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    Mar 19, 2015 9:04 AM GMT
    Ah, yes, the "Dies" majors so widely offered in today's colleges and universities: Mostly worthless, cottage industry contrivances whose main function has been to produce more "academics" to proliferate more Dies. Their focus is rarely self-reflective but thrives on blaming others who actually created the society which has enabled them to be in an university in the first place and in basking in unadulterated ignorance of actual worldly realities.

    Cal has always had its very brights who are quite disconnected from the real world. It is also part of the charm of one of the world's leading academic institutions, but the world actually functions on brains and common sense.

    As to the black students "demands," the ridiculousness of renaming Barrows Hall, especially after this no account criminal, is beneath comment, and in general, rather than wasting all their time on rooftop meetings and drafting demands, their time might be better spent on their books in some discipline other than Dies courses. When they have their 4-points, then maybe they'll have earned their rights to complain about something. Lots and lots of ethnicities disadvantaged have gone through the University of California system since its founding in 1868. There is no reason black students cannot either. It requires hard work and effort to master substantive disciplines, less self-absorbtion, and attentiveness to one's own efforts instead of blaming others. Critical masses has little to do with academic success; studying hard does.
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    Mar 19, 2015 6:02 PM GMT
    pazzy said
    HikerSkier saidWhat is it about youth that they get carried away by crazy politics? (I wasn't a revolutionary in college, and never understood those who were.) So, they are feeling alienated (at one of the most liberal universities in the US, no less), and are asking for some changes - some of which seem reasonable. Then, they totally destroy any credibility they had with this absurd demand. Go figure.

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Berkeley-black-students-demand-fixes-to-6139786.php


    You are displaying your ignorance.

    Compared to you, Pazzy, I really am - thanks for enlightenig me with all your real-world experience.

    So let me guess you were one of those folks that were cool with institutional racism and thr Jim crow laws?

    Right - I support institutional racism - we should go back to segregation - would be a lot less turmoil. How about David Duke for President - hadn't thought of that yet, but it seems right.

    Honestly, the police were the enemy back then because they were there to enforce the wrongs of the government and the only way to fight back was to take a stand.

    Protesting police is one thing - bringing your guns to the party is another matter. Bad things just might (and did) happen). Although I have to grant you, that Marcus Foster, being an enemy of the people, really did deserve to be assassinated .

    Knowing the history of police agencies like the state troopers and cointelpro, it was open season on those that said the government was wrong and it just so happened that someone on the front line on the government side got killed.

    Only natural that if a cop tries to arrest you, he might get shot. The cop's mother should have warned him not to become a cop, because cops are bad, and the "People" might rise up and kill him. The shooting was the fault of the cop's mother, to be sure. Bad mother; but she learned her lesson: if she could have another child, she would make sure he became a revolutionary instead of a cop. Maybe she should also have emigrated to Cuba, where she could have the protection of the dictator.

    the government is basically trying to act all innocent like it wasn't trying to kill off the black panthers and others that were challenging it that they're still demonizing those that stood up to it.

    Those government shooters were really bad shots - it's amazing that they weren't able to kill all the black panthers, what with all the lead the fired at the lot.

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    Mar 19, 2015 6:08 PM GMT
    Sulla saidAs to the black students "demands," the ridiculousness of renaming Barrows Hall

    I didn't read the whole article and didn't see that it's Barrows they want to rename, but Barrows Hall is pretty big. There is a little cafe just outside of Moffitt Library that was renamed the Free Speech Cafe (officially the Free Speech Movement Cafe). Maybe they can find some other unnamed cafe to dub the Assata Shakur cafe (which people could then call the FBI's Most Wanted cafe).
  • TheBaise

    Posts: 363

    Mar 19, 2015 6:46 PM GMT
    I'm a Cal grad from the mid 90's and there were always some cool things happening on campus, as well as some weird violence / mostly brought in by outside agitators. Friends & family from here on the east coast would often call / saying they'd seen t.v. news showing rioting and fires, and arrests on my campus / and they wanted to know what was up? I had to tell them I usually didn't know what the haps were all about. My buds and all the rest of my fellow students were in class or in the libraries, studying. We usually had no idea of what was going down out in the streets or on the plaza until later that night when we caught all the chaos on the news just like anybody else. Man it was crazy sometimes, but it usually didn't involved actual registered students. There used to be ads in the Berkeley and Oakland papers looking for activists to hire to stir up shit. Unregistered, non student idiots starting fires, turning cop cars over, throwing shit at the pigs. Actual students were busy busting our asses to pull grades and graduate.
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    Mar 20, 2015 12:06 AM GMT
    Silly Gay Liberals, you voted for this mess.

    This Assata Shakur bitch is actually Joanne Chesimard who was convicted of murdering a NJ State Trooper.

    Obama normalized relations with Cuba who gave this murdering terrorist bitch asylum.

    You want to know what the problem is Liberals, look in a mirror.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 20, 2015 12:25 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidSilly Gay Liberals, you voted for this mess.

    This Assata Shakur bitch is actually Joanne Chesimard who was convicted of murdering a NJ State Trooper.

    Obama normalized relations with Cuba who gave this murdering terrorist bitch asylum.

    You want to know what the problem is Liberals, look in a mirror.


    The hate within your heart drips onto your prose. As stated in LOTR: TTT, your words are poison.
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    Mar 20, 2015 1:16 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    mx5guynj saidSilly Gay Liberals, you voted for this mess.

    This Assata Shakur bitch is actually Joanne Chesimard who was convicted of murdering a NJ State Trooper.

    Obama normalized relations with Cuba who gave this murdering terrorist bitch asylum.

    You want to know what the problem is Liberals, look in a mirror.


    The hate within your heart drips onto your prose. As stated in LOTR: TTT, your words are poison.


    I hope Joanne gets poisoned.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Mar 20, 2015 2:29 AM GMT
    If the asked for something reasonable they would have likely received it from a UC Berkley. But that was not what they wanted.

    The got EXACTLY what they wanted... A news headline. So they needed to ask for something sensational.

  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Mar 20, 2015 2:56 AM GMT
    Svnw688 said
    mx5guynj saidSilly Gay Liberals, you voted for this mess.

    This Assata Shakur bitch is actually Joanne Chesimard who was convicted of murdering a NJ State Trooper.

    Obama normalized relations with Cuba who gave this murdering terrorist bitch asylum.

    You want to know what the problem is Liberals, look in a mirror.


    The hate within your heart drips onto your prose. As stated in LOTR: TTT, your words are poison.
    Why is it poisonicon_question.gifBecause it is the truth. You extremist liberal hens seem to have serious problems with the truth.
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    Mar 20, 2015 5:21 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidYou extremist liberal hens seem to have serious problems with the truth.

    You are the first one to whine and complain about being insulted, yet every single fucking post of yours lately contains insults about liberals. I stopped insulting you over a year ago and I've held to it. It's time for you to start acting like an adult and drop the cheap nasty insults. They only make you look like an angry jackass.