Are you guys having a ROUGH time getting a good job or career?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 8:39 PM GMT
    Hm, not sure if this bad been discussed earlier, I'm sure it had but I'm just curious if any of you guys are having a rough time with the job market now. I know a couple of guys who are UCLA, USC grads in SoCal and can't get a good job in the area. I know one guy moved to Texas. One of my other friend moved to Boston, hooked up with an older guy and be a kept-boy. LOL nothing wrong with that. Urg, I'm working part-time and not happy in my current situation either and want to change career/direction. My field is on Marketing/Finances/real estate. My dream job would be at Paramount, Miramax or Lionsgate studio. I really DO NOT want to move out of SoCal but I should rethink this. Arrgg.. icon_neutral.gif

    It just seems impossible nowadays to get a good job anywhere. Employers put you through stupid tests, phone calls, multiple round of interviews and if you follow up, they seem to be very hostile and un-cooperative. Geez, it's so discouraging nowadays. Like who do you have to sleep with to get ahead?? I wonder sometimes if employers practice discrimination in hiring people. Oh yeah, I've been to networking events and job fairs in the past, most of them are a waste of time.

    LOL, Anyway, It's just suck to see the job market this way and people can't realize their full potential because of employers. I just want to hear other guys' experiences, new grads, unemployed people or guys who work part time/changing career. You can vent your frustrations too. Sending hugs to people who are in a tough spot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 9:19 PM GMT
    It's glowingly apparent to me, it's all timing and who you know.
    You should spend less time interviewing and more time net-working.
    Find the people who already work where you want to work and become their best friend.
    It upsets me so many people spend time and money, driving miles, spending the night in hotel to look good for an interview that's only been scheduled to satisfy some HR standard--just going threw the motions; the job already promised to a friend of a friend.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3521

    Mar 18, 2015 9:19 PM GMT
    All jobs should be posted on one government database (with the interface to it run by others).

    It should be mandatory that the chosen candidate's resume be posted after the job is filled (contacts removed).

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 9:51 PM GMT
    I'll tell you something. In between crappy jobs in the late 90s, I kept getting a flood of pre-approved credit card apps..

    The stock market was booming. I maxed out a few of those cards and, yeah, I know it's fucking crazy...bought stock.

    You have to be your own boss.

    Feb. 2009, Apple was 88. I bought 500 shares. Sold at 700.

    Don't wait for anyone to give you anything for your hard work.

    Biggest bonus I ever got was working in a sandwich shop as a teenager. Merry Christmas...here's $5 bucks. And, I appreciated it.

  • Mar 18, 2015 10:48 PM GMT
    No

    But I'm an artist who makes work on said topic
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Mar 18, 2015 11:09 PM GMT
    Kind of. I'll be graduating with a Bachelors in May, did three internships, currently applying to fellowships and entry level jobs. The job search process is exhausting, but keep at it and an opportunity will present itself. You've just gotta be discerning in your job search and only apply to and interview for positions that will advance you in your goals.

    It also helps to gain more education (grad school, certificates, etc) and pursue your "dreams" on the side, so that one day you can turn the dream into a living.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Mar 18, 2015 11:13 PM GMT
    LAXWill10 saidHm, not sure if this bad been discussed earlier, I'm sure it had but I'm just curious if any of you guys are having a rough time with the job market now. I know a couple of guys who are UCLA, USC grads in SoCal and can't get a good job in the area. I know one guy moved to Texas. One of my other friend moved to Boston, hooked up with an older guy and be a kept-boy. LOL nothing wrong with that. Urg, I'm working part-time and not happy in my current situation either and want to change career/direction. My field is on Marketing/Finances/real estate. My dream job would be at Paramount, Miramax or Lionsgate studio. I really DO NOT want to move out of SoCal but I should rethink this. Arrgg.. icon_neutral.gif


    I want to eventually work in the film industry as well (Media Studies major). I think the film industry is the toughest to crack - they don't care about degrees or credentials but what you've actually done. Projects, reels, people you've worked with. Connections and previous work get you in.

    You can try getting an entry level (slave labor) job at one of those studios. Maybe you can do accounting for a film studio, but I'm guessing you want to do production or creative stuff?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 18, 2015 11:15 PM GMT
    My former career was in investment banking and I agree that timing and networking are key. The 3 financial areas that the OP mentioned are very competitive and I would suggest finding a level entry position just to get your foot in the door. And yeah, I would consider relocation; otherwise, your restricting your search to a specific demographic area.

    Whether or not companies practice "discriminatory" hiring, I couldn't tell you for sure but I will say that in the last firm I worked for, they had about 200 staff and 3 of us were Asian. I don't think I need to say what the dominant race was and still is.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Mar 18, 2015 11:19 PM GMT
    Apparition saidAll jobs should be posted on one government database (with the interface to it run by others).

    It should be mandatory that the chosen candidate's resume be posted after the job is filled (contacts removed).



    Most jobs are in the private sector. icon_wink.gif

    What would future job seekers gain from seeing a "winning" resume? A cover letter I can see.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3521

    Mar 19, 2015 12:39 AM GMT
    Mulignan said
    Apparition saidAll jobs should be posted on one government database (with the interface to it run by others).

    It should be mandatory that the chosen candidate's resume be posted after the job is filled (contacts removed).



    Most jobs are in the private sector. icon_wink.gif

    What would future job seekers gain from seeing a "winning" resume? A cover letter I can see.


    because it would show the ridiculousness of the "requirements" posted for the jobs.


    private jobs should have to be posted too. looking for a job should not involve looking here than there and everywhere when all the information can be in one format the world over.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 1:54 AM GMT
    I can only speak for high tech, science, engineering, manufacturing. Something minimum wage are fill in and not really considered a career per se. Several factors and clues can give us an idea what the hiring minds of corporate America are up to. These have been some of my observations the last 3 years. Hint: Low labor participation and DL age discrimination is good for greedy corporate profits.

    #1 Difficulty finding cheap labor, rise of H1B visa recruiting
    #2 Regional US job shifts moves to find cheaper labor, less regulation, state tax incentives for jobs
    #3 Anyone on a current payroll is an expense, not an asset, no corporate loyalty, no one stays
    #4 Corporations are now "people" even though there're an expense too, "religious liberty" in hiring
    #5 "Increase in productivity", current payrolls working their asses off, 1 person doing the work of 3
    #6 The above has increased profit margins, stock prices, cash flow, CEO salaries 300%, no need to add payrolls
    #7 Corporate America is not happy with young, cheap, recent grads (see below)
    #8 Corporate America is not happy with older experienced workers that costs too much (see below)
    #9 The cultured unemployed unwilling to move, relocate to uncultured US locations (see #2)
    #10 The battle for corporate supremacy, millennials versus baby boomers, liberal versus conservative
    #11 The upcoming changes in marriage law and federal, fed contractor employment LGBT laws may have put a slow on hiring


    Why Labor Force Participation Is Still so Low
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-19/why-labor-force-participation-is-still-so-low

    Are Baby Boomers the reason young people can’t find work?
    http://netrightdaily.com/2014/08/baby-boomers-reason-young-people-cant-find-work/



    13 Common Complaints Employers Have About Recent Grads
    http://www.onlinecollege.org/2012/09/10/13-common-complaints-employers-have-about-recent-grads/

    Grads are clueless about the job
    Students don’t have the skills or background employers are looking for
    Recent grads have unrealistic salary expectations
    Students have sub-par writing skills
    Young workers expect too much, too fast
    Recent grads don’t stick around
    Students may have a bad attitude
    Young workers don’t have effective critical thinking skills
    A poor work ethic
    Students haven’t gained enough experience
    Failing to present a professional persona
    Students have embarrassing Facebook accounts
    A general lack of tenacity


    11 Sneaky Ways Companies Get Rid Of Older Workers
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2013/11/03/11-sneaky-ways-companies-get-rid-of-older-workers/

    Job elimination
    Layoff
    Suddenly stupid
    Threatening your pension
    Early retirement
    Mandatory retirement age
    Cutting job duties
    Isolation
    Denying promotions or opportunities for advancement
    Cutting hours
    Harassment
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 2:04 AM GMT
    To find a good job, it is important to consider locations of good jobs. Los Angeles ranks near the bottom of 25 cities.

    NYT: Some cities — especially big ones hemmed in by water, like New York and San Francisco — have held onto a large share of employment near the city center. But now, urban job growth is increasing more quickly in those cities than before. And in other cities — including Chicago, New Orleans, Orlando, Charlotte and Milwaukee — employment is growing in the urban core and declining in the suburbs.

    “How do you connect people to economic opportunity and the kinds of jobs that can give them secure footing and a path out of poverty?” said Elizabeth Kneebone, a fellow studying metropolitan policy at the Brookings Institution. “The first step is understanding where jobs are located.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/upshot/more-new-jobs-are-in-city-centers-while-employment-growth-shrinks-in-the-suburbs.html?abt=0002&abg=0
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 2:38 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidTo find a good job, it is important to consider locations of good jobs. Los Angeles ranks near the bottom of 25 cities.

    NYT: Some cities — especially big ones hemmed in by water, like New York and San Francisco — have held onto a large share of employment near the city center. But now, urban job growth is increasing more quickly in those cities than before. And in other cities — including Chicago, New Orleans, Orlando, Charlotte and Milwaukee — employment is growing in the urban core and declining in the suburbs.

    “How do you connect people to economic opportunity and the kinds of jobs that can give them secure footing and a path out of poverty?” said Elizabeth Kneebone, a fellow studying metropolitan policy at the Brookings Institution. “The first step is understanding where jobs are located.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/upshot/more-new-jobs-are-in-city-centers-while-employment-growth-shrinks-in-the-suburbs.html?abt=0002&abg=0



    Where the jobs are located? Corporate America is moving jobs to the south, to benefit themselves, not the 'talent' they could attract and retain, they have been leaving the real talent behind in favor of high profit margins and low wage. There might be jobs in the south, such as Mississippi, but who really wants to live there with such bad, constant reputations? It is not the person(s) searching for work fault, where the jobs are located. Where "the jobs are located" is obviously political in nature, que the republican bribery state tax incentive program, poll after poll shows the south as the worst place to live but yet corporate America isn't paying any attention to these polls, answered by potential candidates and actual talent. After they move their jobs, then complain they cant "find qualified candidates", well duh icon_rolleyes.gif


    Why the South is the worst place to live in the U.S. — in 10 charts
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/07/why-the-south-is-the-worst-place-to-live-in-the-u-s-in-10-charts/
    The 10 States With the Worst Quality of Life
    [url]http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/10/07/the-10-states-with-the-worst-quality-of-life/2/
    [/url]
    Mississippians Most Obese, Montanans Least Obese
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/167642/mississippians-obese-montanans-least-obese.aspx


  • ai82

    Posts: 183

    Mar 19, 2015 2:42 AM GMT
    I feel bad for the kids who are going to school, getting thousands of dollars of debt and not being able to find a job. I'm considering getting a new job and the opportunities where I am are quite thin. I'm considering moving. It's important to remember that most people change jobs several times before they find their career. It may be worth it to get the experience that all employers seek at the less desirable jobs until you can find that dream job.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Mar 19, 2015 4:37 AM GMT
    When I got out of grad school in 1981, the national unemployment rate was 7.6%. Now, it's 6.2%.

    The annual inflation rate was 10.3%. Now it's 1.6%.

    The Federal minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. Now it's $7.25 (an increase of 340%, but the Consumer Price Index has risen only 157% in that time).

    By each of these three measures, things are much better now than they were then.

    I grew up in the Rust Belt. Employers were fleeing my hometown. There were no decent jobs anywhere.

    I moved to Houston and found a good job in the oil industry, which was booming at the time. I hated living in Houston - I'm very outdoors oriented, and the climate there sucks - but after working there five years I had a red Porsche and a very healthy bank account. So I quit my job and moved to the beach in Southern California, where I still live, and hope to stay forever.

    The bottom line is this: if you're looking for a good career, be prepared to go where the jobs are. You can find a better place to live once you've established yourself. But for now, you're a beggar, not a chooser.

    And if you're looking for a career in the entertainment industry, be prepared to spend a lifetime waiting tables like everybody else.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 5:22 AM GMT
    One of the best things about living in a smaller city is that there's less competition among other recents grads and people aren't eager to move here for entry level positions. That being said, I'm still a tad nervous and I hope a B.Sc. in economics with a minor in comp sci paired with four summer IT terms will be enough to secure a decent first *real* job. I feel like I have a false sense of entitlement because I've been taking extra math and CS courses, but I also feel like having strong math and programming skills on top of not being socially inept (a rarity among the IT crowd) will land me a position that I don't mind working in.
  • YTC1989

    Posts: 39

    Mar 19, 2015 5:22 AM GMT
    Lol I never did an interview for my current job of 2 years (industrial designer). No networking or friends required. Just a chance encounter while presenting a school project, followed by drinks. Two classmates had their interviews at the same firm cancelled as a result. I've never felt so white since then.
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    Mar 19, 2015 6:01 AM GMT
    ELNathB said

    ...11 Sneaky Ways Companies Get Rid Of Older Workers
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2013/11/03/11-sneaky-ways-companies-get-rid-of-older-workers/....



    I went to a career fair for a much buzzed-about software company here in Vancouver once and walked out once I noticed that of the many employees that I saw, only one person appeared to be over 40, and he was the janitor.

    If the Company was small I'd buy it but not when it has a lot of employees. I would neither work for, or invest in, a company that appears to blatantly discriminate on age or otherwise.
  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Mar 19, 2015 6:27 AM GMT
    Consider trying to look for new approaches to your job search. For instance, maybe looking to just get your foot into the company you want to work at...and move up from there.

    Find creative ways to network. Join business groups in your field and make sure that they know you are interested in getting your foot in the door.

    Possibly get experience at a studio that you did not list.

    The unemployment rate is dropping. California had more new jobs than any other state last year. So I do hope that the future is going to look better and better.


    Internships:
    http://www.paramount.com/inside-studio/studio/internships

    Lionsgate
    https://career4.successfactors.com/career?career_ns=job_listing&company=lionsgate&navBarLevel=JOB_SEARCH&rcm_site_locale=en_US&career_job_req_id=2521&selected_lang=en_US&jobAlertController_jobAlertId=&jobAlertController_jobAlertName=&_s.crb=K8hdvGd01yUiC9


    Disney: Marketing: Burbank
    https://www.linkedin.com/job/the-walt-disney-company/marketing-jobs/


    Entertainment Marketing Jobs
    https://www.linkedin.com/job/entertainment-marketing-jobs/



    http://disneyinterns.com/search.php


    ERMA has a meeting on April 23rd
    Entertainment Resource and Marketing Association
    http://erma.org/

    They have internships as well: http://erma.org/erma-job-search/
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Mar 19, 2015 6:32 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWhen I got out of grad school in 1981, the national unemployment rate was 7.6%. Now, it's 6.2%.

    The annual inflation rate was 10.3%. Now it's 1.6%.

    The Federal minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. Now it's $7.25 (an increase of 340%, but the Consumer Price Index has risen only 157% in that time).

    By each of these three measures, things are much better now than they were then.

    I grew up in the Rust Belt. Employers were fleeing my hometown. There were no decent jobs anywhere.

    I moved to Houston and found a good job in the oil industry, which was booming at the time. I hated living in Houston - I'm very outdoors oriented, and the climate there sucks - but after working there five years I had a red Porsche and a very healthy bank account. So I quit my job and moved to the beach in Southern California, where I still live, and hope to stay forever.

    The bottom line is this: if you're looking for a good career, be prepared to go where the jobs are. You can find a better place to live once you've established yourself. But for now, you're a beggar, not a chooser.

    And if you're looking for a career in the entertainment industry, be prepared to spend a lifetime waiting tables like everybody else.



    This!

    Jobs are not really meant to make people happy and fulfilled, no matter how much spin they put on it. Jobs are here for you to earn your keep, and preferably much more.

    Develop highly marketable skills.

    Accumulate wealth.

    Develop your own client base.

    Accumulate wealth. (Did I just say that?)

    Run your own show on your own terms.


    SC
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 7:09 AM GMT
    The best way to land a job is through networking. If you don't have a broad professional network, then consider getting a headhunter. Let him do the footwork for you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 8:16 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWhen I got out of grad school in 1981, the national unemployment rate was 7.6%. Now, it's 6.2%.

    The annual inflation rate was 10.3%. Now it's 1.6%.

    The Federal minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. Now it's $7.25 (an increase of 340%, but the Consumer Price Index has risen only 157% in that time).

    By each of these three measures, things are much better now than they were then.

    I grew up in the Rust Belt. Employers were fleeing my hometown. There were no decent jobs anywhere.

    I moved to Houston and found a good job in the oil industry, which was booming at the time. I hated living in Houston - I'm very outdoors oriented, and the climate there sucks - but after working there five years I had a red Porsche and a very healthy bank account. So I quit my job and moved to the beach in Southern California, where I still live, and hope to stay forever.

    The bottom line is this: if you're looking for a good career, be prepared to go where the jobs are. You can find a better place to live once you've established yourself. But for now, you're a beggar, not a chooser.

    And if you're looking for a career in the entertainment industry, be prepared to spend a lifetime waiting tables like everybody else.

    Do you really believe it's easier than say 1981 to get a job in this market? Your statistics don't take into account the available labour force or cheap labour force.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2015 8:27 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWhen I got out of grad school in 1981, the national unemployment rate was 7.6%. Now, it's 6.2%.

    The annual inflation rate was 10.3%. Now it's 1.6%.

    The Federal minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. Now it's $7.25 (an increase of 340%, but the Consumer Price Index has risen only 157% in that time).

    By each of these three measures, things are much better now than they were then.

    ...



    These "measures" do not really tell a true story, however; they are merely creations of the economists and their creative statistics. The unemployment rate is only calculated against the semi-mythical "people who are looking" and ignores those who want jobs and realize the futility of looking and are not reflected in a true unemployment figure.

    The inflation rate is less now; true, but not because of a healthy economy but because so many people have no money to spend because they don't have jobs.

    The minimum wage is another false indicator. A "good" wage has little to do with an absolute figure than it does to the wage's purchasing power of the necessities of life in the country's economic circumstances. It is silly to lament an annual wage of $2500 if potatoes are 2¢/pound, milk is 5¢/gallon, and a new car costs $500, etc.. Raising the minimum wage in and of itself is mainly an inflation producer, absent good, wealth-producing industries which have good jobs. But guess what...our government has let those jobs be lost first to monopolizing mergers starting the late 1960s and then to the pernicious outsourcing to third world countries with overpopulations where a $2500 annual wage puts them amongst the top earners of their country but still with the 2¢ potatoes.

    Lack of wealth-producing industries coupled with the horrendous world overpopulation and the looming environmental disasters caused by this overpopulation is why jobs are so hard to find.
  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Mar 19, 2015 3:25 PM GMT
    One of the highest job growth areas in California has been high tech. Job growth in LA has been slower than in San Francisco and San Diego.


    Job growth in California soars

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobs-20150307-story.html
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Mar 19, 2015 3:55 PM GMT
    LAXWill10 saidHm, not sure if this bad been discussed earlier, I'm sure it had but I'm just curious if any of you guys are having a rough time with the job market now. I know a couple of guys who are UCLA, USC grads in SoCal and can't get a good job in the area. I know one guy moved to Texas. One of my other friend moved to Boston, hooked up with an older guy and be a kept-boy. LOL nothing wrong with that. Urg, I'm working part-time and not happy in my current situation either and want to change career/direction. My field is on Marketing/Finances/real estate. My dream job would be at Paramount, Miramax or Lionsgate studio. I really DO NOT want to move out of SoCal but I should rethink this. Arrgg.. icon_neutral.gif

    It just seems impossible nowadays to get a good job anywhere. Employers put you through stupid tests, phone calls, multiple round of interviews and if you follow up, they seem to be very hostile and un-cooperative. Geez, it's so discouraging nowadays. Like who do you have to sleep with to get ahead?? I wonder sometimes if employers practice discrimination in hiring people. Oh yeah, I've been to networking events and job fairs in the past, most of them are a waste of time.

    LOL, Anyway, It's just suck to see the job market this way and people can't realize their full potential because of employers. I just want to hear other guys' experiences, new grads, unemployed people or guys who work part time/changing career. You can vent your frustrations too. Sending hugs to people who are in a tough spot.


    (1). Not to be a grammar Nazi as this is a message board, but there are no less than ten (10) grammatical errors in your first paragraph, and in some instances you outright misused words at least three (3) times. Was this sloppy posting, or do you not have a command of the English language? The latter would be a severe problem professionally. Red flag.

    (2). Your flippant reference to your friend being a house boy and your rhetorical question of 'Like [sic] who do you have to sleep with to get ahead?? [sic]" That's troubling because it's sending a signal that you want something the cheap and easy way, as opposed to hard work and merit. Red flag.

    (3). "they seem to be very hostile and un-cooperative [sic]" As the old saying goes, if you have a problem with everybody, check yourself. I fail to believe all or most HR departments are openly hostile to you without provocation on your part. Red flag.

    (4). Your field is marketing/finance/real esate. I don't even know what that means. Those skills are NOT interchangeable at all. Are you a real estate broker? Residential or commercial? Do you work at an ad agency or marketing firm, if so, what do you market? Are you a CPA? Or do you work at an accounting or finance firm? Private equities? In short, you've left me utterly confused as to what your professional 'skill' is. Red flag.

    (5). You said your dream job is to work at Paramount, Lionsgate or Miramax studios. That's problematic because you failed to say what your dream job is and instead you simply said a location. Do you want to work the craft services table? Security guard? Actor? Director? Stage crew? Instead of telling us what you actually want as a dream job, you simply demurred to three large studios. That indicates to me that you simply want a stable job, with a fat paycheck, but you don't actually have a dream other than being able to say "I work at XYZ." You're focusing on appearance/name instead of substance. Red flag.

    I know I'm harsh, but I wish I could say what I have nicely. But I can't. From a professional standpoint you're sending red flags all over the place, and if this were an interview I'd have disqualified you after the first paragraph for the reasons mentioned above. All isn't lost. Reconsider how you're presenting yourself to those interviewing you. Qualify matters, but to an extent it's a numbers game. Keep plugging away, and trying to learn from the process.

    The hardest job you'll ever have is searching for a job. Don't be afraid to take a menial job (or a job you perceive as 'beneath' where you would like to start) to get your foot in the door. It's easier to move up, and companies are more likely to promote from within than to hire a lateral. That might not be true for top executive positions, but companies usually aren't opposed to moving a known and good employee from janitor to facility manager to studio coordinator. Without a precise trade and professional skills, you're NOT going to walk into a major studio and be ushered to your desk and private office overlooking L.A. and receiving a six figure salary on day one.

    And truth be told, if you're interviewing for a spot you're necessarily selling your freedom and value. You need to get to a point where you can later be your own boss. Set your own schedule, set your own rules, set your own salary. You'll always be 'subservient' in a sense (for example, I'm a lawyer but I have to play nice with clients and the Courts), but at least I set my own rules, I can't be fired (I can lose 1 client, which I never have, but that'd be approximately a small percent of my firm's revenue), and I share fully in the profits (i.e., I get ALL profits after litigation costs and associate wages/payments).

    Store up some cash, play their game, and then start out on your own. Few people actually 'make it' by servicing another person's business. That's their cash cow, you need your own eventually.