"Truthiness" of Job-Stealing Immigrants

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    Mar 25, 2015 2:13 AM GMT
    NYT: Do immigrants steal jobs from “Americans”? The notion is based not only on racial animus but to the faulty economic logic.

    Tthe economic benefits of immigration may be the ­most ­settled fact in economics. A recent University of Chicago poll of leading economists could not find a single one who rejected the proposition.

    So why don’t we open up? The chief logical mistake we make is something called the Lump of Labor Fallacy: the erroneous notion that there is only so much work to be done and that no one can get a job without taking one from someone else. It’s an understandable assumption. If there were suddenly a whole lot more oranges, we’d expect the price of oranges to fall or the number of oranges that went uneaten to surge.

    But immigrants aren’t oranges. It might seem intuitive that when there is an increase in the supply of workers, the ones who were here already will make less money or lose their jobs. Immigrants don’t just increase the supply of labor, though; they simultaneously increase demand for it, using the wages they earn to rent apartments, eat food, get haircuts, buy cellphones. That means there are more jobs building apartments, selling food, giving haircuts and dispatching the trucks that move those phones. Immigrants increase the size of the overall population, which means they increase the size of the economy. Logically, if immigrants were “stealing” jobs, so would every young person leaving school and entering the job market; countries should become poorer as they get larger. In reality, of course, the opposite happens.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/debunking-the-myth-of-the-job-stealing-immigrant.html?ref=magazine
  • tj85016

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    Mar 25, 2015 4:13 AM GMT
    lol what a crock

    a survey of economists without a shred of evidence for their opinion

    but nobody begrudges immigrants at all, just the illegal ones

    but the NYT rather lump them all together in some puff piece to persuade us that illegal immigration is ok
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    Mar 25, 2015 4:14 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidlol what a crock

    a survey of economists without a shred of evidence for their opinion

    but nobody begrudges immigrants at all, just the illegal ones

    but the NYT rather lump them all together in some puff piece to persuade us that illegal immigration is ok


    Precisely, tj. The NYT has a bad habit of making unsupported conclusory statements like this one, hoping its one-time status as "the paper of record" will suffice to make them gospel truth. To the extent that boast was ever true, it sure ain't now. In fact, the debate over whether "the economic benefits of immigration may be the ­most ­settled fact in economics" is hardly as settled as the NYT would have it, as any simple google or wiki search will confirm. This is just another permissive puff piece to aid and abet amnesty for illegal aliens, whose continued presence here, like "travellers intending to embark on the [Lusitania]" is "at their own risk."
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    Mar 25, 2015 4:23 PM GMT
    If you believe that the article is not based on economic evidence but based on falsehood, instead of defaming the NYT or the author, I invite you to contact the author personally. His e-mail address is at adavidson.npr@gmail.com.

    Here is the author's bio:

    adam-davidson-headshot-articleInline.jpg

    Adam Davidson writes the It’s the Economy column for The New York Times Magazine.

    Davidson co-founded Planet Money, NPR’s team of economics reporters whose goal is to translate often confusing and sometimes terrifying economic and financial news. Through a blog, a twice-weekly podcast and regular stories on ‘‘Morning Edition,’’ ‘‘All Things Considered’’ and ‘‘This American Life,’’ Planet Money reaches millions of people each week.

    Davidson’s economic explanatory reporting has been awarded many of the leading awards in broadcast journalism, including the Peabody, DuPont-Columbia and the Polk. His award-winning documentary on the housing crisis, ‘‘The Giant Pool of Money,’’ which he reported and produced with Alex Blumberg, was recently named one of the top 10 works of journalism of the decade by the Arthur L. Carter of Journalism Institute at New York University.

    He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Jen Banbury, and their son.
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    Mar 25, 2015 4:34 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidIf you believe that the article is not based on economic evidence but based on falsehood, instead of defaming the NYT or the author, I invite you to contact the author personally. His e-mail address is at adavidson.npr@gmail.com.

    Here is the author's bio:

    adam-davidson-headshot-articleInline.jpg

    Adam Davidson writes the It’s the Economy column for The New York Times Magazine.

    Davidson co-founded Planet Money, NPR’s team of economics reporters whose goal is to translate often confusing and sometimes terrifying economic and financial news. Through a blog, a twice-weekly podcast and regular stories on ‘‘Morning Edition,’’ ‘‘All Things Considered’’ and ‘‘This American Life,’’ Planet Money reaches millions of people each week.

    Davidson’s economic explanatory reporting has been awarded many of the leading awards in broadcast journalism, including the Peabody, DuPont-Columbia and the Polk. His award-winning documentary on the housing crisis, ‘‘The Giant Pool of Money,’’ which he reported and produced with Alex Blumberg, was recently named one of the top 10 works of journalism of the decade by the Arthur L. Carter of Journalism Institute at New York University.

    He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Jen Banbury, and their son.


    Yes, that's all fine and well, but his contacts reinforce his leftist bias, and I'd consider it rude and unprofessional to contact any author as you suggest. What's next? Protesting outside their home at dinner time? Oh, wait ...

    Sorry, but as good as this guy's credentials are, his bias and that of the NYT gets in the way if the story at hand. No sale.
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    Mar 25, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
    States work around Obamacare to provide illegal aliens with frequently free healthcare:

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/09/us/obamacare-undocumented-immigrants/

    Because NY State receives federal money to support legal people, NY State can afford to pay for illegal aliens using state funds.

    When the federal Medicaid enhanced subsidies run out on September 30, 2019, NY State and other states will have to raise taxes or cut benefits.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/hia/html/home/home_immigrants.shtml

    http://medicaid.gov/chip/financing/financing.html

    Many illegals live in flop houses whereby 15-20 people live in a 2000 sq. ft. house.

    Many illegals have federal government paid cellphones supplied by an Obama campaign donor.
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    Mar 25, 2015 6:14 PM GMT
    Then I guess It does not matter the evidence that could be presented to disuade your disbeliefs even if Jeb Bush, a conservative, supports immigration.
  • tj85016

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    Mar 25, 2015 6:18 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidThen I guess It does not matter the evidence that could be presented to disuade your disbeliefs even if Jeb Bush, a conservative, supports immigration.


    the issue is not immigration, the issue is illegal immigration

    either get a work or student visa - or get deported
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    Mar 26, 2015 5:08 AM GMT
    robbaker saidThem damn illegal aliens stealing jobs from u.s. citizens icon_evil.gif



    No one seems to want to discuss the big picture issue; over population. California adds one million illegals a year but not one of them is bringing with them a life time supply of water or oil. So Mother Nature is being blamed for not producing enough water for the state. One more year without rain and another million people and things are going to get nasty . If won't be ivory tower speculation anymore.
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    Mar 26, 2015 3:04 PM GMT
    The assertion those anti-immigrant individuals only have a problem with illegals is a crock. It's plain old anti-immigration, xenophobic fearmongering that has not changed one bit since the invention of national borders and economies. Every generation up until the 20th century had their respective "immigrant class" that was generally underpaid, overworked, abused and shunned by "natural-born" citizens but we often forget that we are ALL immigrants to this country. None of us (but native Americans) can trace our heritage back further than a few hundred years before it jumps back over the Atlantic Ocean. My moms great-grandfather came here from Metz France in 1868. I hate using lump-terms but the GOP is where most of these anti-immigration have ended up congregating and the degree to which it is takes is bizarre and even disgusting in some cases.

    And there is NOTHING wrong with emailing an author unless you already subconsciously know that you are going to be rude and obstinate. Truly enlightened individuals do not shy away from controversy or debate, they strive to tear the shroud from misunderstanding and misinformation and thrust others into the light of truth.

    Just because a journalist has "leftist" compatriots doesn't negate his statements or publications. Anyone who actually believes that someone with liberal leanings cannot then be trusted to know anything about money or economies is a fool. The "left" and "right" arguments are one of the WORST things to have happened to politics in so many years. They've been bastardized into huge, ugly catch-all battle cries for the vaguely informed of each side of an argument to hurl at one another without actually knowing what they're talking about.
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    Mar 26, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
    Life2Short saidThe assertion those anti-immigrant individuals only have a problem with illegals is a crock. It's plain old anti-immigration, xenophobic fearmongering that has not changed one bit since the invention of national borders and economies. Every generation up until the 20th century had their respective "immigrant class" that was generally underpaid, overworked, abused and shunned by "natural-born" citizens but we often forget that we are ALL immigrants to this country. None of us (but native Americans) can trace our heritage back further than a few hundred years before it jumps back over the Atlantic Ocean. My moms great-grandfather came here from Metz France in 1868. I hate using lump-terms but the GOP is where most of these anti-immigration have ended up congregating and the degree to which it is takes is bizarre and even disgusting in some cases.

    And there is NOTHING wrong with emailing an author unless you already subconsciously know that you are going to be rude and obstinate. Truly enlightened individuals do not shy away from controversy or debate, they strive to tear the shroud from misunderstanding and misinformation and thrust others into the light of truth.

    Just because a journalist has "leftist" compatriots doesn't negate his statements or publications. Anyone who actually believes that someone with liberal leanings cannot then be trusted to know anything about money or economies is a fool. The "left" and "right" arguments are one of the WORST things to have happened to politics in so many years. They've been bastardized into huge, ugly catch-all battle cries for the vaguely informed of each side of an argument to hurl at one another without actually knowing what they're talking about.


    Yes, overpopulation, and the pollution that results from it, most visible in the neighborhoods that harbor large number of illegal immigrants, is a topic that the usual environmentalists won't touch with a ten foot redwood sapling. Except, of course, to bemoan "environmental racism" while consciously ignoring the environmental disasters that many illegal immigrants and "minorities" have created all by themselves in the public housing projects built for their benefit by squandered and trashed by them almost as soon as they move in.

    The assertion that those who support the rule of law, and are thereby opposed to illegal immigration, are opposed to all immigration, is false and w/o foundation; as the above post reveals, it is only a reflection of the proponent's own projections, on whatever they may be based. Merely saying that opposition to illegal immigration = opposition to ALL immigration does not make it so.

    Those who immigrated legally to this country from the time it was founded never did so with as many private and governmental incentives to do so illegally as exist now. What "benevolent and protective associations" there were were privately founded and funded by legal immigrants themselves, who cooperated with the government in facilitating legal immigration and fighting illegal immigration, unlike now, where too many of those outfits receive state and federal funds only to bite the hands that feed them by aggressive non-cooperation with law enforcement. So much for any analogies there.

    And yes, people ARE known by the company they keep. They may well be brilliant and have excellent command of the facts, but if their judgment, as reflected in their opinions and by those with whom they keep company, reflects one bias or another, they may - and should! - be called on it. Reciting a string a cliches that have no real bearing on the issue at hand adds nothing to the conversation, wherever conducted, online, in private, presumptuous emails, or elsewhere.
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    Mar 26, 2015 6:24 PM GMT
    One of the conservative economists in the article cautions that his colleagues insufficient assess the costs of immigration even if the benefits are not denied. Two of the commenters mentioned this namely limit water resources in California to support additional population.

  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Mar 26, 2015 6:56 PM GMT
    I love how they're trying in desperation to lump legal immigration and illegal immigrants into the same category

    the US has never had an issue with legal immigration

    but even Canada, Mexico and Australia deport illegals (all nations of immigrants from Spain, England, etc)