GermanWings Airliner flight 9525 crashed into the French Alps.

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    Mar 26, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
    Any of you guys following this story?? Another plane crash lately, such a tragedy. Now, they say that one of the pilot locked out of the cockpit, can not get back in before the crash. Stories like this make me pretty scared of flying/traveling around the world.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/europe/germanwings-crash-main/
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Mar 26, 2015 10:32 AM GMT
    I have been watching the news coverage.
    They still don't know what happened.
    Over 30 young students on board absolutely terrible.

  • Mar 26, 2015 1:00 PM GMT
    Just read that they now think it might've been the co-pilot doing it on purpose. The Captain was locked out of the cockpit apparently icon_confused.gif
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    Mar 26, 2015 1:41 PM GMT
    BeardAndBarbell saidJust read that they now think it might've been the co-pilot doing it on purpose. The Captain was locked out of the cockpit apparently icon_confused.gif

    And banging on the door trying to get back in. The cockpit door on the Airbus can't accidentally lock, and there's an override keypad on the outside. That can be disabled from the inside for 5 minutes, requiring a deliberate extra step by a crew member. So it seems the co-pilot was conscious, and locked the door himself in a way to temporarily prevent use of the override keypad.

    If so, that must have been a horrifying last few minutes for the passengers & crew. Another reason I avoid air travel anymore.

  • Mar 26, 2015 1:45 PM GMT
    Very scary. I guess at the end of the day, it's long been a risk of flying, there just seems to have been a spate of plane crashes lately.

    Not flying really isn't an option though, I've got 2 trips home coming up in the next 2 months and I'm not missing either of them...
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    Mar 26, 2015 1:49 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    BeardAndBarbell saidJust read that they now think it might've been the co-pilot doing it on purpose. The Captain was locked out of the cockpit apparently icon_confused.gif

    And banging on the door trying to get back in. The cockpit door on the Airbus can't accidentally lock, and there's an override keypad on the outside. That can be disabled from the inside for 5 minutes, requiring a deliberate extra step by a crew member. So it seems the co-pilot was conscious, and locked the door himself in a way to temporarily prevent use of the override keypad.

    If so, that must have been a horrifying last few minutes for the passengers & crew. Another reason I avoid air travel anymore.


    Anyone know the name of the co-pilot? Can't find it anywhere (and yeah, exactly what I'm thinking)
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    Mar 26, 2015 2:37 PM GMT
    I've got two airline flights next week.

    Maybe I should just take the small plane instead.
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    Mar 26, 2015 3:21 PM GMT
    Not good for Lufthansa business , Airbus must be feeling better .
    Everyday , 100.000 flights will take off and land in the world , flying is still the safest way of transportation .
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Mar 26, 2015 4:29 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI've got two airline flights next week.

    Maybe I should just take the small plane instead.

    You might want to avoid flying on Lufthansa. The crash would not have happened if Lufthansa followed the same rule as applies to all US carriers, and most other countries as well - that when a pilot leaves the cockpit, another crew member must enter and remain there until he comes back. Lufthansa did not want to inconvenience its crew members, so 150 people die. One might think, that after this disaster (just like the EgyptAir suicide crash of several years ago) that Lufthansa might immediately adopt this safe practice followed by the rest of the world. But no. They are "thinking about it."

    It was Lufthansa's negligence. Too bad that under the Warsaw convention (designed to protect airline companies from having to pay for their accidents) relatives of passengers are severely limited in what they could get out of Lufthansa.
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    Mar 26, 2015 4:50 PM GMT
    neffa saidNot good for Lufthansa business , Airbus must be feeling better .
    Everyday , 100.000 flights will take off and land in the world , flying is still the safest way of transportation .


    Preach.

    Suetonius said
    paulflexes saidI've got two airline flights next week.

    Maybe I should just take the small plane instead.

    You might want to avoid flying on Lufthansa. The crash would not have happened if Lufthansa followed the same rule as applies to all US carriers, and most other countries as well - that when a pilot leaves the cockpit, another crew member must enter and remain there until he comes back. Lufthansa did not want to inconvenience its crew members, so 150 people die. One might think, that after this disaster (just like the EgyptAir suicide crash of several years ago) that Lufthansa might immediately adopt this safe practice followed by the rest of the world. But no. They are "thinking about it."

    It was Lufthansa's negligence. Too bad that under the Warsaw convention (designed to protect airline companies from having to pay for their accidents) relatives of passengers are severely limited in what they could get out of Lufthansa.


    This is misleading, and totally unproven. Lufthansa is arguably the safest airline in the world. There is no way to know if following the protocol of US airlines would have saved the passengers on that flight. If the pilot were hell bent on crashing the plane, he could probably easily have subdued the crew member in the cockpit with him, who likely wouldn't have been on his or her guard.
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Mar 26, 2015 5:04 PM GMT
    Bunjamon said
    neffa saidNot good for Lufthansa business , Airbus must be feeling better .
    Everyday , 100.000 flights will take off and land in the world , flying is still the safest way of transportation .


    Preach.

    Suetonius said
    paulflexes saidI've got two airline flights next week.

    Maybe I should just take the small plane instead.

    You might want to avoid flying on Lufthansa. The crash would not have happened if Lufthansa followed the same rule as applies to all US carriers, and most other countries as well - that when a pilot leaves the cockpit, another crew member must enter and remain there until he comes back. Lufthansa did not want to inconvenience its crew members, so 150 people die. One might think, that after this disaster (just like the EgyptAir suicide crash of several years ago) that Lufthansa might immediately adopt this safe practice followed by the rest of the world. But no. They are "thinking about it."

    It was Lufthansa's negligence. Too bad that under the Warsaw convention (designed to protect airline companies from having to pay for their accidents) relatives of passengers are severely limited in what they could get out of Lufthansa.


    This is misleading, and totally unproven. Lufthansa is arguably the safest airline in the world. There is no way to know if following the protocol of US airlines would have saved the passengers on that flight. If the pilot were hell bent on crashing the plane, he could probably easily have subdued the crew member in the cockpit with him, who likely wouldn't have been on his or her guard.

    Unproven? What's "unproven"? That a safety regulation always prevents what it is supposed to prevent?
    If co-pilot Lubitz couldn't be alone in the cockpit, it is much more likely that he would have killed himself somewhere else - otherwise risking that he would have had to fight, and might not be successful in his suicide attempt.
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    Mar 26, 2015 5:16 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI've got two airline flights next week.

    Maybe I should just take the small plane instead.

    Were you returning to SD that you have the option to leave the small plane there for now, and fly commercial?
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    Mar 26, 2015 5:36 PM GMT
    Assuming it was a personal suicide, I cannot understand why take 149 innocent people with you? And if a pilot wants to do it with a plane while flying, rent a single engine with only yourself onboard, and crash it in an unpopulated area.

    If if was motivated by religion or ideology then some kind of message should surface. I'm sure his residence will soon be searched for any clues, and his background probed.
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    Mar 26, 2015 5:39 PM GMT
    This is just horrific.
  • Bunjamon

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    Mar 26, 2015 5:41 PM GMT
    Suetonius said
    Unproven? What's "unproven"? That a safety regulation always prevents what it is supposed to prevent?
    If co-pilot Lubitz couldn't be alone in the cockpit, it is much more likely that he would have killed himself somewhere else - otherwise risking that he would have had to fight, and might not be successful in his suicide attempt.


    Safety regulations exist to mitigate risk, but they do not eliminate risk. "Would have, could have, should have" does not work in situations like this one. There is absolutely no proof that following a different safety procedure would have prevented a man from allegedly committing suicide with a plane and killing all passengers on board. It's a tragic accident. Lufthansa may decide to implement a new safety procedure in the future, but it is no guarantee that another similar incident won't occur again.

    The fact remains that you are far more likely to die in the car that is taking you to the airport than in a plane.
  • HndsmKansan

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    Mar 26, 2015 6:26 PM GMT
    Horrible, from start to finish, considering that it is now a murder investigation. Will be interesting to hear why.
    Lots to learn and consider.
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Mar 26, 2015 6:35 PM GMT
    Bunjamon said
    Suetonius said
    Unproven? What's "unproven"? That a safety regulation always prevents what it is supposed to prevent?
    If co-pilot Lubitz couldn't be alone in the cockpit, it is much more likely that he would have killed himself somewhere else - otherwise risking that he would have had to fight, and might not be successful in his suicide attempt.


    Safety regulations exist to mitigate risk, but they do not eliminate risk. "Would have, could have, should have" does not work in situations like this one. There is absolutely no proof that following a different safety procedure would have prevented a man from allegedly committing suicide with a plane and killing all passengers on board. It's a tragic accident. Lufthansa may decide to implement a new safety procedure in the future, but it is no guarantee that another similar incident won't occur again.

    The fact remains that you are far more likely to die in the car that is taking you to the airport than in a plane.

    Nothing eliminates all risk. But, since the implementation of secure cockpit doors, post 911, how many planes have been taken over by terrorists breaking into the cockpit? None.

    Suicidal pilots wishing to take a planeload of passengers with them into eternity are not exactly common. Yet making it very difficult for them to do so, after having had the experience of the first one (or probably the second, since that was likely the case with the Malaysian Airlines disappearance) at no cost to the airline should be expected. If someone were suing the airline under general principles of american law, not providing such a deterrence would be considered negligence. Probably just as negligent as flying a commercial airliner through a war zone to save a few gallons of fuel, which, as we have seen, can also kill a lot of passengers.

    One is more likely to die in a car crash than an airline crash. But if one is going to fly, safer to fly on an airline that screens its baggage for bombs than one that does not. Also safer to fly on an airline that employs the latest standard procedures for cockpit security.



  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1037

    Mar 26, 2015 7:30 PM GMT
    The investigators haven't told us everything they know. They've listened to the flight recorder; they said they could hear the co-pilot breathing until the end. But somehow they haven't told us what the pilot and co-pilot said to each other before the pilot left the cockpit.

    No pilot would just get up and walk out of the cockpit in the middle of a flight without saying anything to the co-pilot. Either he had some reason to leave, or the co-pilot found some pretext to get him out of the way.

    What did they say to each other?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
  • Suetonius

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    Mar 26, 2015 7:33 PM GMT
    bro4bro saidThe investigators haven't told us everything they know. They've listened to the flight recorder; they said they could hear the co-pilot breathing until the end. But somehow they haven't told us what the pilot and co-pilot said to each other before the pilot left the cockpit.

    No pilot would just get up and walk out of the cockpit in the middle of a flight without saying anything to the co-pilot. Either he had some reason to leave, or the co-pilot found some pretext to get him out of the way.

    What did they say to each other?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    It was reported on NPR this morning, that the pilot asked the co-pilot to take over (this was shorlty after the plane had reached its cruising altitude), the co-pilot relied something like, "OK", the pilot left the cockpit, and almost immediately thereafter, the plane began to descend.
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    Mar 26, 2015 7:53 PM GMT
    More updated news:

    Officials now say that the Co-Pilot (28 yo German national Andreas Lubitz) deliberately crashed the airplane into the French Alps. So, it's appear to be murder-suicide? The captain pilot was locked out of the cockpit and could not get back in after a short bathroom break?. He used the codes and was override by the co-pilot inside. They say that they could hear screaming, the captain banging on the cockpit door from the black box before the plane went down....

    **Urhhh, tragic !!
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    Mar 26, 2015 7:59 PM GMT
    Of course this is a very tragic occurrence, but it is also an infinitesimally rare one. I bet hundreds of people around the world are killed by suicidal motorists every year and I've never heard anyone suggesting drivers ought to be be accompanied by another driver at all times or be psychologically screened.

    This is why Al-Qaeda are still fixated on bringing down commercial airliners, because they know it plays on the irrational fears most people have surrounding air travel, despite the overwhelming evidence that it is, by far, the safest means of travel.

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    Mar 26, 2015 8:25 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidOf course this is a very tragic occurrence, but it is also an infinitesimally rare one. I bet hundreds of people around the world are killed by suicidal motorists every year and I've never heard anyone suggesting drivers ought to be be accompanied by another driver at all times or be psychologically screened.

    This is why Al-Qaeda are still fixated on bringing down commercial airliners, because they know it plays on the irrational fears most people have surrounding air travel, despite the overwhelming evidence that it is, by far, the safest means of travel.



    There's a difference between Suicidal motorists and suicidal pilots. Simply put, you can Escape or run away from the crazed motorists and most of these accidents are 1 on 1 rate. Motorists and car accidents happen everyday and in most cases, they're not that fatal. Unless if you drive like 110 miles and slammed into someone. Now with airline situation, you're on a airplane, you're giving your safety and your life to the Pilot/Captain. You have no say whatsoever sitting in First class or coach. It's important to have psychological tests done on Pilots, captains because it's happened in the past. Pilots suicide, pilots revenge on getting fired or he's just gone crazy. And beside if you fall like 30,000 feet from the air into the ocean or mountains, chances of you being alive is pretty SLIM. In other words, Plane crashes are just FATAL with more casualties and you can't really avoid it. So People take it 100% more seriously.

    (This crash reminds me of the movie FLIGHT with Denzel Washington who played a DRUNK pilot captain, he flew the plane after the partied hard the night before and he went through his divorce, mid-life crisis, he ended up killing 4-5 people in that movie, YEP that's manslaughter if you ask me)...
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Mar 26, 2015 8:38 PM GMT
    JuanPablomv89 saidIm very grateful to God that everything went well when I took 5 flights to arrive home from Tahiti none of the airplanes crashed like this one. Three long days of flying and waiting at the airport gates. I work for the Tourism and Travel industry
    lol
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    Mar 26, 2015 8:57 PM GMT
    LAXWill10 said
    There's a difference between Suicidal motorists and suicidal pilots. Simply put, you can Escape or run away from the crazed motorists and most of these accidents are 1 on 1 rate. Motorists and car accidents happen everyday and in most cases, they're not that fatal. Unless if you drive like 110 miles and slammed into someone. Now with airline situation, you're on a airplane, you're giving your safety and your life to the Pilot/Captain. You have no say whatsoever sitting in First class or coach. It's important to have psychological tests done on Pilots, captains because it's happened in the past. Pilots suicide, pilots revenge on getting fired or he's just gone crazy. And beside if you fall like 30,000 feet from the air into the ocean or mountains, chances of you being alive is pretty SLIM. In other words, Plane crashes are just FATAL with more casualties and you can't really avoid it. So People take it 100% more seriously.


    Statistically, you are many more times likely to die in a car crash than you are in a plane crash.

    Not only are aircraft crashes very rare, but if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in one, then statistically, you have a 96% chance of surviving it.
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    Mar 26, 2015 9:11 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    LAXWill10 said


    Statistically, you are many more times likely to die in a car crash than you are in a plane crash.

    Not only are aircraft crashes very rare, but if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in one, then statistically, you have a 96% chance of surviving it.


    LOL said you !!, dude are you sure of this statistic LOL?? ?? and even if you survived the plane crash, what are you going to eat or do if you're stranded on a mountain or in the Forrest?? Resort to cannibalism like the Crash in the Andes in 1972??